Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I just feel that giving people that miss a draft the absolute bottom of the barrel is too harsh.

I don't see the randomizer as penalizing people that show up, the randomizer will never be better than people who are actually putting time into their lists over the number of events in this league. What the randomizer does do is give some chance of getting a decent team or two if you miss a draft for whatever reason. For example, I missed one draft all of last season because I fell asleep before the draft and had forgotten to send in my list, the randomizer helped soften the blow a little by giving me at least one team I held onto.

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I would like to hear Ed's take on this.

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

In for now.

1. Koko Ed
2. Vikesrock
3. rtfgnow
4. Barry Bonzack
5. Chris is me
6. Akash Rastogi
7. dodar
8. hill
9. Clinton Bolinger
10. EricH
11. R.C.
12. Karibou
13. RMiller

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

As for issues:
1) There needs to be a better method for when people are dropped from the league than who can hit enter fastest. In a sports fantasy league there are "undroppable" players to prevent people from having first round draft picks all over. It is also quite unfair when there are multiple tiers and one ends up with 10 people and the other ends up with 5. I know, I benefited from this multiple times.
I don't think the waiver line quite addresses this, particularly when there are an unbalanced number of people in each.

A proposed solution: Break people into actual tiers (maybe 6-8 people each) that you always draft against. For instance, perhaps Barry and Kevin would always be tier 1 and Eric and I are always tier 2 (for this year). Base it on previous years' (note plural) initially. After that, have promotions/relegation at the end of the year like soccer in Europe. Maybe the bottom two drop a tier and top two go up a tier. That way a lot of the issues are solved. Folks in tier 1 and probably 2 at the least will not have people dropping, missing lots of drafts, etc.
Even if someone drops from a tier, you are not going to have a major advantage (see below for a couple of ideas on what to do with the teams).

Potential issue: is only tier one in competition for "awards"? (you probably can't use overall point total, particularly if the number of people in each tier is unbalanced)
Maybe have this for the "regular season" and then for the "postseason" (MSC, Championships) have a mass event.


2) "New teams" - I like the waiver wire approach here, but I think that the team needs to be announced in the draft that it has been added once it is noticed with 24 hours or so after the announcing to claim the team.
Issue: two people claim a team... who gets it.
The issue I have with the proposed waiver line is thus: 1) I was first in line, but yesterday 1816 showed up as an option for Wisconsin. Knowing it would be an upgrade, I grabbed them. Today, 67 showed up as an option for Kettering. I have no chance of getting them now. 2) I just grabbed 1816 for Wisconsin. Now I can lay a claim to any team I want with no repercussions to my waiver line position until someone actually grabs a team.

Also, who is going to keep track of the waiver line order and how will it be done? With random tiers, two people grab 67, who gets put last on the waiver line?

Proposed solution(s): I like the idea of different levels of claims. For instance in case 1, I am willing to grab 1816 at a level three, but 67 at a level one. If someone wants 1816 at a level two, they have a higher priority, but if I am first in line at level one, I get 67 even if I just got 1816. The issue is this is even harder to keep track of.
Maybe you have to give up a team in the that draft and the person with the highest offer (in terms of draft position) gets the new team, but drops the old team. The newly dropped team then has the same procedure. Only issue is that changes close to the add/drop deadline are very difficult. This might not be a big issue though.
I think overall, I like the second method better. It can also be used when someone quits the league or is kicked out.

3) Random picks. I am fine how things went this season for the random picks. Yes, it sucks when the random pick before is what you want, but it is very rare.
If it is a major sticking point, perhaps for the first round only, leave the space blank until the end of the round and then fill with a random. I would want to leave an exception there for someone who specifically says random, whether via PM or in the draft thread. It might be because they have looked and are okay with what they see.

Just some ideas.

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I know that I do my best to have the same number of people in each tier when running a draft. Having the same number of people in each tier in every draft is well-nigh impossible.

We did used to run where players X, Y, and Z could expect to be all in the same tier, given the same number of tiers. It was determined that more people seemed to like completely random, so that was switched to. (Something about always getting stuck with Barry or Kevin in your tier being, well, annoying, to say the least.) The main reason the tiers changed size was that people dropped out. Some tiers were decimated due to the first 5 drops randomly winding up there.

We've had the promotion/demotion idea proposed before. Ed declined it, saying that if someone wanted to run it that way, then they could start their own league.

The idea with the waivers is that, whenever somebody drops or a new team is detected in the list, any teams affected would go on waivers, with waiver priority given to lower-ranked players (higher on the priority list) and the addition announced.

To address your issues with the waiver idea:

1) If you want to make multiple claims before a waiver period expires, go right ahead and specify which one is to get priority. Let's say that 1114 enters Los Angeles and 67 enters Arizona later the same day. You claim both, and I claim both, but you specify that 67 is to take priority and I specify 1114 as top priority. As long as the waiver period has not expired for team X when team Y is claimed, if Y is specified as a priority, then Y would go to you instead of X.

2) Pretty much. That's a problem? If they're any good, somebody farther up the list will claim them. (Look, if 1114 passes through an entire waiver period without being claimed except by the person on the bottom of the priority chain, then that person deserves to get them, because nobody else is awake!)

Two people in different tiers grabbing the same incoming team: maintain current list order would work pretty well.

I was thinking that any teams dropped as a result of waiver trades should also go on waivers, but free-agent (pool) trades would be pretty much unregulated, the same as previously. Specify the waiver trade team (i.e., 67, 111, 16 are your alliance in Midwest, and 1114 becomes available, you specify that you'd ditch 111 to pick up 1114).

As for who would run the waivers, Kevin has volunteered, and I can assist as well (hey, I'm the guy who's always looking for missing teams, why not add new teams?).

Two things to remember: 1) any teams not claimed off waiver go into the pool.

2) Unless and until Ed says to go for it, all the talk we're having is merely speculation.

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

All who are running it have done a great job of keeping things as close to even as possible initially. The people dropping with random tier assignments is not the league's fault - it happens. I just wonder if there is a way to make this issue less of an impact.
I wasn't clear about the assigned tiers. I was only thinking of using that in a promotion/demotion situation (I think I put the cart before the horse there). Without that, I would agree that it is best to stay random.

How are the rankings determined, particularly pre-competition season? A random initial followed by going to the back of the line? Does this change to order based on points during the season?


I think I was a bit unclear. So, 1816 decides to join the Wisconsin regional. I was in front of the line. I know they are a good team - good chance to make eliminations, win an award, maybe go deep in eliminations, but they are by no means a perceived guarantee. They are probably a second round draft or maybe late first depending on who is at Wisconsin. They are a clear upgrade over my third round pick. I pick them up, moving to the back of the line. The day after I pick them up, 67 decides to join Kettering. Obviously, they are a first round pick anywhere. Now I am at the end of the line though with no chance of getting them.

So now people clam up and wait for the next powerhouse team. Will 111 go to Boilermaker? 217 to FLR? 330 to Arizona? etc While waiting, the last person is just happily upgrading with teams like 1816 that are upgrades, but not powerhouses. I know an 1114 type team will not make it to the end of the waiver line (unless everyone ends up in a day long coma), but what about teams that are very good teams, but not powerhouses?

Personally, that is what I like about the pseudo-auction. The only issue is that it could lead to a long string of "auctions" if an exceptionally strong team shows up.

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Count me in! I'm excited and slightly scared at the hardcore-ness of fantasy FIRST.

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

The last day to sign up would be Tuesday November 30th though I'm leaning to start the drafts a little earlier on Friday the 26th of November.

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

If you guys think the whole waiver thing is more fair than the first come first serve basis then by all means let's try it.

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

1. Koko Ed
2. Vikesrock
3. rtfgnow
4. Barry Bonzack
5. Chris is me
6. Akash Rastogi
7. dodar
8. hill
9. Clinton Bolinger
10. EricH
11. R.C.
12. Karibou
13. RMiller
14. fireyoshi

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I think that it'll result in a closer, more fun end result. It'll also slow down the mad scramble every time somebody drops...

To answer some of RMiller's questions: Initial position would be determined by final overall score from last season (all regionals + MSC + Championships), highest score at the bottom. Newcomers would go to the top, in random order. (NOTE: I would also go with using IRI scores for anybody competing in the IRI FF league that did not compete in Season Long last year.)

During the season (i.e., after competition begins) the most recent scores would be used, should a team go onto waivers. Waiver times would most likely be shortened from whatever is used during draft and build seasons.

You do raise a good point; however, I would like to note that no waiver time has been set yet. It could be a week, it could be an hour. 1-2 days is probably what we'll go with. The decision, in the end, will have to come down to the drafter's strategy. (Also note that it's pretty rare for a powerhouse to suddenly change where they're going.)

Going with the scenario where somebody at the bottom is busily upgrading with mid-level teams while everybody else waits for powerhouses, if they do that, more power to them. It wouldn't be too hard to impose an extra restriction: Last (or last X) person on the list can't participate in the next waivers.

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Can someone make a short and concise post explaining exactly what the change in procedure is to me? I see a lot of back and forth but it's very hard to follow and understand exactly what's going on.

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Waiver process: A newly-available team (one that is free as a result of being a late addition, or a player dropping out) goes on waivers for X time. During that time, anybody in that tier can put in a claim for that team. A priority list is kept of all the players--highest priority to claim a team gets them, drops a team, and goes to the bottom of the list. The now-free team goes on waivers as well (possibly). Unclaimed teams go into the pool as free agents.

Details to be sorted out:

• time of waiver claim period
• how to keep somebody on the bottom from continually upgrading without worrying about position

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Now if you do pick up a waiver team, do you get to pick who you drop or is it a team of equal avg round pickup? (i.e. your alliance: 148, 111, 1986 but 1114 joins regional, can you drop the 3rd pick or do you have to drop 148?)

Re: [FF]: 2011 Seaon Long Fantasy FIRST
 

My opinion would be you can drop whoever you want. It could get quite messy determining what round is equivalent when mid-level teams are handled, just because 1816 is a solid round 1 at Northstar doesn't mean they are at Wisconsin as an example.

With regards to people near the bottom of the priority list upgrading with a bunch of midlevel teams, I think this is just another strategic aspect of the competition. You have to evaluate where you are in the order and decide on whether or not the upgrade is worth risking something better coming up later on.