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-   -   Doing FIRST in College (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86703)

Ian Curtis 30-08-2010 01:18

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechkrunch (Post 972780)
One question that I haven't seen brought up in any of the other thread: Since the season take place in the spring, during most students 2nd semester of college, shouldn't they have time to adjust to college during the fall so they can do FIRST in the spring?

To add to Jason's excellent postings, probably not.

I said this last fall:
Quote:

Originally Posted by iCurtis (Post 888666)
If you come to RPI, you'll probably have time to mentor your freshman year. Taking 16 credit hours of sophomore/freshman classes, I have enough free time. The pace picks up -- it doesn't slow down.

In a classic "Insert Foot in Mouth," in the spring, I was way, way too busy to mentor a team.

There are so many neat things to do in college besides FIRST. Do something else! Meet cool people interested in the things you're really interested in. There's Formula SAE, Formula Hybrid, Design/Build/Fly, Solar Car Racing, AeroDesign, Steel Bridge, Concrete Canoe, MATE ROV, and the list goes on.

Adam,

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamHeard
I feel the part I bolded is a bit off; I wouldn't say this is just a hobby, nor does it universally reduce the chance of a good job.

I don't think it "universally reduces the chance of a good job" either, but I do think better opportunities exist for college kids than FIRST. My Design Build Fly team receives sponsorship money from our engineering department, Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Nothrop-Grumman, and other small companies too. Having some of the people we meet with know your name is pretty hard to beat when it comes to getting a job.

AdamHeard 30-08-2010 01:46

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iCurtis (Post 972800)
I don't think it "universally reduces the chance of a good job", but I do think better opportunities exist for college kids than FIRST. My Design Build Fly team receives sponsorship money from our engineering department, Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Nothrop-Grumman, and other small companies too. Having some of the people we meet with know your name is pretty hard to beat when it comes to getting a job.

I would say that is also untrue, I've got contacts at most local engineering firms, along with some larger ones (which you named) a further distance away.

FIRST isn't the problem, it's people being irresponsible (which I suppose is what John was getting at).

I was pretty dead set on not doing FIRST when I came to my school, and evaluated (and went to...) all the clubs and activities that were available. None of them except FSAE had the combination of engineering challenge and competition that I desired, and FSAE was just not my thing.

I determined the best mix of engineering exercise, leadership training, and just plain fun available to me was to mentor the local FIRST team. I still do a lot of design (and for local companies) for other clubs on request, but the FIRST team is what really gets my attention

I admit, every once in a while I miss a class or skip a homework "for the team", but the absence of FIRST would not change that; if I were in some other program, I would occasionally do the same "for that team".

Mentoring a FIRST team in college isn't bad; mentoring a FIRST team at great personal expense and/or exploring what other activities are available is. In my opinion, what's important in college (for engineering) is to learn the material, get respectable grades, and get some quality hands on design experience; the methods are up to the individual.

EricH 30-08-2010 02:00

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Chief Delphi is my main contact with the FIRST community these days. I don't mentor a team (none anywhere near); I only volunteer on spring break (if then); all that sort of thing.

Instead, I compete hard with the Aero Design team on campus. It's a different look at engineering, and it gets attention from employers. Robotics gets a bit more, but I can work with either one fluently.

As for skipping class, there are 2 reasons that I do it. 1) I sleep in. Bad thing, I try not to do it, etc. 2) I have a school-sponsored activity that day (school policy is that professors can't punish you beyond your not being in class for the lecture if it's a school-sponsored activity). I don't skip homework (bad things happen, beyond grades slipping), but I might turn it in late if I have a school-sponsored activity like Aero Design and can talk the professor into letting me do that. (Failing that, I turn it in early.)

What I do with FIRST/Aero Design, I do in my free time. (Admittedly, I try to structure my free time so that FIRST/Aero stuff gets priority...)

kaliken 30-08-2010 03:46

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
I guess this thread finally got me motivated to actually start posting.

I really agree with most of the comments in the thread but also I wanted to pass some of the advice I gave to the 294 graduating students in past year or so.

First off JVN is right on. I am glad that he spent the time to make this post to highlight his experiences. As a mentor who only heard of FIRST when finishing my masters I could never be in the position that you graduating seniors are in.

My recommendation to our students was similar to what has been recommended. Try new things, look for new clubs. Get involved with the college community. Get out of your comfort zone once and a while. Have fun! You only get to be an undergrad once!

However the number one thing I stress is that you are going to college to better yourself. You or your parents are paying very good money to enable your future success. You need to remember that your primary occupation at this time is a student. This is what you are first and formost; make college your life.

I know most of FIRST students are great people and are really giving and want to give back to the FIRST community. But for once I would say that you need to be selfish. You need to spend the time experiencing college and maxing out the amount you can gain from your college of choice. Mentoring can wait until you are ready... FIRST will still be here!

In the end the choices are our own. I know I have made my mistakes and I know you students will make your own. In the end, I wish you all the best of luck! Study hard and enjoy the ride.

Brandon Holley 30-08-2010 09:58

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
All of the mentors on team 125 are college students, or very recent college grads. I've seen dozens upon dozens of college mentors go through our team. Some are able to succeed right away (very very rarely) while most flounder for almost the entirety of their careers on the team. Very few are able to stick with the team through all 5 years (Northeastern is a 5 year school), but the few that do become very proficient mentors.

FIRST is tough on college students. In my opinion, FIRST is not designed for college students to have a very active role in it. Just like how you grow a lot (physically and emotionally) through high school, you do the same through college. A high school senior on the team, who has participated for the last 4 years is almost identical in experience to a college freshman joining a team in the fall. Literally only a couple of months of summer separate these two. To think some magic transformation will occur over those months is slightly ignorant in my opinion.

The way our team operates, utilizing college mentors as pretty much the only mentor support, creates numerous obstacles we have to hurdle. At the end of the day, we are a successful FIRST team, that inspires our high school students and helps the community. However, it burns college students out left and right. Like I said above, some are able to get through the rough patches and develop into amazing mentors, but along the way there are many college mentors who burn themselves out.

I agree with everything JVN said, but I also understand how tough it is to let go of something you really care about. My recommendation is to take at least 1 year off from FIRST if you truly insist on being a college mentor. Give yourself time to develop as a person and gain some know-how. Looking back on when I joined my FIRST team as a college freshman, I realize I had people telling me the same thing and I didn't really listen. I wish I would have because I think it could have really helped me in the long run.

Good post JVN.

-Brando

Akash Rastogi 30-08-2010 12:53

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 972778)
I agree with John's point, good read.



I feel the part I bolded is a bit off; I wouldn't say this is just a hobby, nor does it universally reduce the chance of a good job.

Co-ops at Drexel are based on academic achievement as well as marketable skills. For me, at least, FRC is a hobby. My point was if I don't do well academically I'm not likely to get the co-ops I'm aiming for.

Chris is me 30-08-2010 13:00

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi (Post 972840)
Co-ops at Drexel are based on academic achievement as well as marketable skills. For me, at least, FRC is a hobby. My point was if I don't do well academically I'm not likely to get the co-ops I'm aiming for.

I think the sentiment was that FRC is not a "cool robotics club". That's not why someone should mentor a robotics team. I would say that if all you would get out of college mentoring is the chance to build more robots, it's definitely not for you.

I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou and insist that everything I do in FIRST is in the selfless interest of Shaker's students, but I am in FIRST first and foremost to inspire them.

Josh Fox 30-08-2010 17:47

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
As someone who is heavily debating whether or not to become involved in FIRST in college, I've found a lot of interesting points in this thread, both for and against.

I've definitely got some thinking to do.

IKE 30-08-2010 21:04

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
There are a lot of great points in this thread. I would like to add one that I haven't read yet.
You are possibly stealing opportunities from the High School Students. This is especially true if you are at the same team you just finished up with last year. If you were a senior leader last year, many of the younger students will still look to you for that leadership. This means they are not looking for this leadership from their seniors. Would you want to steal this opportunity? If you just graduated, and are dead set on helping FIRST, talk with the local Regional about helping them find sponsors and volunteer at the regional. Learning the other side of FIRST will make you an especially valuable mentor later on.

Akash Rastogi 30-08-2010 23:57

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 972841)
I think the sentiment was that FRC is not a "cool robotics club". That's not why someone should mentor a robotics team. I would say that if all you would get out of college mentoring is the chance to build more robots, it's definitely not for you.

I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou and insist that everything I do in FIRST is in the selfless interest of Shaker's students, but I am in FIRST first and foremost to inspire them.

This and what IKE stated are precisely why I personally am not ready to mentor. Simply put, I still want to build the robot and design most of the parts.

Maybe in a few years.

JamesCH95 31-08-2010 13:14

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GGCO (Post 972772)
Also, aren't there bigger/better/more challenging things to do in college, the BAJA competition is just one of them.... solar car... etc...

+1 to both of these. FIRST is a very good program, especially for HS students, but if you really want to expand your knowledge base and really do in-depth engineering, a professional engineering society challenge is the only way.

I participated in the Chem-E car challenge, sponsored by AIChE, and participated heavily in Formula SAE. Programs like these are the next logical step beyond FIRST in order to further develop professionally and technically. Off the top of my head: AIChE Chem-E car, FSAE, Baja SAE, Clean Snowmobile, Super-milage, Solar Car, FSAE-Hybrid, SAE Aero, and all of the IEEE contests... there are many more I am sure.

I would encourage any FIRSTer going into college to take another plunge into the unknown and try a new challenge. What I learned in FRC served me very well in FSAE and Chem-E car, and what I learned in those programs is now serving me well as an FRC mentor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi (Post 972777)
Now, FSAE, that sounds like fun...

It really is... I cannot stress enough how much that program helped me develop my technical and professional skills.

Lil' Lavery 31-08-2010 13:15

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi (Post 972840)
Co-ops at Drexel are based on academic achievement as well as marketable skills. For me, at least, FRC is a hobby. My point was if I don't do well academically I'm not likely to get the co-ops I'm aiming for.

I put my "relevant activities" (including both my high school participation and current FIRST mentoring) before my "relevant classwork" and previous employment on my resume. My FIRST experience definitely helped me land my co-op position.
Especially coming out of Freshman year into your first co-op cycle, it's hard to differentiate yourself. You've all taken (more or less) the same classes up to that point, and few (basically none) of them are really specialized towards what you'd be doing specifically at any co-op position.
I'm not saying that you should automatically mentor a team just to put it on your resume. Especially given that you already have FIRST experience from when you were in high school. But, having things to separate yourself from the crowd and the networking connections you make through FIRST can be very helpful in finding a desirable co-op.
GPA is important, especially in terms of landing you an interview in the first place. But it's far from the only factor that weighs on an employers mind.

Brandon Holley 31-08-2010 13:31

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesCH95 (Post 972961)
I participated in the Chem-E car challenge, sponsored by AIChE, and participated heavily in Formula SAE. Programs like these are the next logical step beyond FIRST in order to further develop professionally and technically. Off the top of my head: AIChE Chem-E car, FSAE, Baja SAE, Clean Snowmobile, Super-milage, Solar Car, FSAE-Hybrid, SAE Aero, and all of the IEEE contests... there are many more I am sure.

Excellent points, I agree with trying these more college based competitions. One counter point may be that starting some of these teams can prove to be rather difficult if they are not in place already. Gaining funding is always tough as we know from FIRST, and many of these organizations do not have the undying need to expand like FIRST does. As such, the infrastructure to support new teams, while certainly existent, is not as in depth as FIRSTs.

That being said, starting a new competition team seems like a challenge any active FIRST student could handle when getting to college.

Brandon Holley 31-08-2010 13:34

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 972962)
I put my "relevant activities" (including both my high school participation and current FIRST mentoring) before my "relevant classwork" and previous employment on my resume. My FIRST experience definitely helped me land my co-op position.
Especially coming out of Freshman year into your first co-op cycle, it's hard to differentiate yourself. You've all taken (more or less) the same classes up to that point, and few (basically none) of them are really specialized towards what you'd be doing specifically at any co-op position.
I'm not saying that you should automatically mentor a team just to put it on your resume. Especially given that you already have FIRST experience from when you were in high school. But, having things to separate yourself from the crowd and the networking connections you make through FIRST can be very helpful in finding a desirable co-op.
GPA is important, especially in terms of landing you an interview in the first place. But it's far from the only factor that weighs on an employers mind.

You nailed the point here Sean. Northeastern is a 5 year school, where everyone in your class goes on co-op for 6 months at a time. There is heavy competition for co-op positions. If all of you have taken the same classes, theres not much to distinguish between students besides experience. Sure, some jobs may require a minimum GPA, but thats just a foot in the door. All of my co-op positions I was hired for were a direct result of my experience in hands-on applications, like FIRST.

-Brando

Akash Rastogi 31-08-2010 13:52

Re: Doing FIRST in College
 
Thanks for the insight, Sean and Brandon.


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