Re: College level First!
 

i like the idea of having a college level program but also would probably never be part of it if it is during the same time as the FRC build. i started mentoring a first team almost right out of high school and cant just go away and play my own games.

Re: College level First!
 

I'd guess the reason they aren't leaving this to FSAE and other colleiate engineering programs is because:
1. Those focus on college student skill sets, not inspiration of younger students. A collegiate FIRST competition would be widely publicised through the programs of FIRST.
2. They think they can do a collegiate engneering program better.

Those are really the only reasons to do something like this, though I hope #2 doesn't factor in. The first one is quite legitimate.

Re: College level First!
 

Where is the word, scholarships, in your #1 and #2 reasons?

Where is the phrase, better access, in your #1 and #2 reasons?

Where is the word, potential, in your #1 and #2 reasons?

Jane

Re: College level First!
 

It's great to see everyone's early thoughts and discussion about the program. Let me take a minute to re-emphasize some of the disclaimers and address some of your concerns.

First, this program is entirely generated and produced by a volunteer group of students, faculty and engineers from institutions around the country. We are collaborating with FIRST operations, the Championship Planning Committee, and other divisions as appropriate.

As for legitimacy, remember, this is not a full-blown FIRST program yet. This is a pilot to explore all of the intricacies and challenges with hosting an event at this level. The reason there is no official release from FIRST is that this program is pending marketing approval from FIRST. The program doesn't even have a name yet! Once we hash out these issues, I'm sure you'll hear more from HQ.

As for overlap with FRC, the only reason the kickoff is now or the season happens to coincide with FRC is the timing of the World Festival at the end of FRC Season. We've considered many possible season formats including having no set season at all. This goes the same for the timing of the World Festival with regard to finals, but as rtfgnow pointed out, HS students manage with AP tests. Our hope is to learn from the pilot and make the best decisions we can.

For program sponsorship, the pilot will be entirely self-funded and volunteers will be separate from those currently working at the World Festival. You can think of it like building a start-up company that FIRST proper may choose to "purchase".

In the end, we all overcome adversity to participate in FIRST. As they say, it's the hardest fun you'll ever have.

Also, this program has been spearheaded out of Illinois Institute of Technology with contributors from WPI, Oakland University, University of Wisconsin Platville, PACE University, Northeastern University and Stanford.

I'm sure there are many other things to think about, and we will continue to hear all of your feedback! We definitely appreciate the optimism, however cautious.

Re: College level First!
 

I am naming representative samples. 148=lapbot, 1114=launcher, 217 was a different type of launcher. In the other year, all 4 robots, IIRC were "hybrid" class--but had 4 different types of ramps and multiple types of arms. There were also pure ramps, pure arms, and the odd box-on-wheels. You can't "spotlight" 900 teams, simply because that's an area light, not a spotlight. Also, 3 of the 4 in 2007 are in the Behind the Design book for that year.

For CJ, I think you've hit a pretty good difficulty level with the challenge, but having 3 different challenges is pretty tricky. I'd also suggest clarifying what "Triathalon" is in the rules; it's mentioned as the finals format but not clearly defined/described. (Also, if I brought this up to SDSM&T's UAV team, they'd look at me like I was crazy--they have to go through a 1-m square opening, find a room, find a thumb drive in the room and replace it with an identical one, and exit, in 5 minutes if they fly "dirty" and 10 minutes if they avoid all the security systems in the place...autonomously. And they're looking into landing on a ground vehicle or something like that.)

Re: Collegiate FIRST competition
 

To say that this will turn into the NCAA of robot associations is stretching it a bit far. Also, I am not sure there will be much of a market for collegiate FIRST for various reasons. Anyone that is a college student that has tried to do anything with robotics in college knows that getting funding for anything from a college takes awhile. The recent economic struggles and colleges priorities of where to put money into do not go hand in hand with a program like FIRST. Vex and IEEE are much more suitable college competitions. Finally most college students, especially engineering students do not have time to devote 100% effort into a FIRST team. I like the enthusiasm about the program though and have loved the idea since its inception but I'm just calling it like I see it here.

-Drew D.

Re: College level First!
 

I'm curious what effect this program will have on FRC, if any. My gut instinct is to say that it might cause a division of resources (volunteer time, mentor time, money, tools) between the different programs.

Re: College level First!
 

To my best knowledge, those are already offered in collegiate engneering programs (correct me if I'm wrong). So if anything that'd be covered in #2, FIRST believes they can give better access, more scholarships, and deliever more potential than other programs, which is certainly covered #2. That said, what FIRST believes is not good enough in other programs is important, and I appreciate you having brought that up.

@Eric: True, but with 900 impressive robots, you can you can show them toe everyone. The only way to show a few robots everywhere is national TV, which is for the most part out of reach, at least for now.

By creating many impressive robots, and focusing on doing that, then inspiring following a season, collegiate FIRST would be a strong way to inspire without any sort of major revamp of FRC.

Re: College level First!
 

Or we could reinvigorate FRC by helping FRC teams around the country become more sustainable. Instead of funding the ridiculous growth of rookie teams with no money or resources, what if we focused on making FRC teams make better, good looking robots with sustainable support from sponsors and engineers? That would not only get the "many impressive robots" people are looking for, it would further inspire thousands more high school kids who actually get to be on these teams.

I guess we'll see how this pilot works out in St. Louis...

Re: College level First!
 

I think Andrew's quote that he posted here is important. This idea has grown through folks who are FIRSTers. If the idea developed from HQ, that is one thing but, it appears that the idea was pitched to HQ, developed from a group of FIRSTers who are interested in and implementing this idea. If I am correct in my assumptions (:)), pitching ideas to HQ is nothing new; I seem to recall some FIRSTers from Michigan having a few good ideas a while back. Developing the idea and implementing it is the challenge. That has been made clear consistently in the requests for suggestions, feedback, and folks that are interested in helping.

Jane

P.S. Those involved in FRC don't need to feel threatened at this point. Regarding the sustainability challenges in FRC, this idea may be able to help with that. We don't know at this point, now do we?

Re: Collegiate FIRST competition
 

If you go to a university that collects student service fees there is an immense source of funding at your finger tips that most people don't even know about.

Re: College level First!
 

It could attract more overall support for FIRST through the college medium. Or it could drag resources away from current programs. Either way, we won't know until we know.

Re: College level First!
 

One thing that I'd be interested in knowing, as an outside observer, is: What are the goals/objectives of the pilot itself? That's one thing that the MI pilot season didn't make public at all, and it would be nice to know what the collegiate FIRST group is looking to do. It's not really covered in the mission statement, either.

Re: College level First!
 

Maybe they ought to focus on doing FRC better, which is currently the only legitimate vessel for STEM culture change amongst high school students on a large scale.

FSAE, Mini Baja, SAE Aero, Concrete Canoe, Solar Car Challenge, Human Powered Vehicle, bridge building challenge, etc are all much better established and much more like an actual bridge from being an engineering student to being an engineer, as opposed to "all these kids who were in FIRST in high school are really sad they can't drive the robots anymore...let's make a new competition so they can play with robots still and have fun".

Re: Collegiate FIRST competition
 

What do student service fees typically fund, Alex?

Jane