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-   -   2011 Red Herring #1 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87374)

pandamonium 03-11-2010 09:57

2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 979336)
Oh? Really? Is there some documentation or policy statement that says that is the case?

I'm just sayin'....



.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 979226)
I wonder how well it could pick up one of these:



-dave





.

I believe that the above two posts by Dave should be looked into. Probably not an actual clue but could be fun to discuss and who knows maybe we can get him to drop another red herring or two :)

IKE 03-11-2010 10:10

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Anyone remember what the game piece was from the very first FIRST game? Isn't there some sort of anniversary thing going on this year?

blackiceskier 03-11-2010 10:16

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
The game piece from Maize craze from the first FIRST game way back in 1992 was tennis balls yes, but would they really do something that simple again where its very simple to pick up. Every one knows how to hoard a bunch of small game elements and hold them from both FTC 2009-2010 hot shot and from FRC 2009 the dreaded L word

pandamonium 03-11-2010 10:32

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Tennis balls are not necessarily easy. they could make the game difficult by limiting the way the robots can interact with them, shooting, pushing, lifting, dumping. Making rules restricting possession or #'s. The field could be full of dozens of them making it difficult to drive.

the clue could be in the PENN

note all were found using Wikipedia

John Penn (engineer) (1805–1875), British marine engine engineer, invented lignum vitae bearing for propellor shafts = WATER GAME jk lol

Penn Jillette, member of the comedy and magic duo Penn & Teller
could mean this years game ______ Illusion or ______ Magic


"The "Curse of Billy Penn"

Atop Philadelphia City Hall stands a statue of William Penn, sculpted by Alexander Milne Calder, which is 37 feet (11 m) tall.[111] From City Hall's completion in 1881 until 1985, when One and Two Liberty Place were constructed along Sixteenth Street, an unwritten agreement had existed among the city's planners that no building in Philadelphia should ever stand higher than the hat atop Penn's statue, 548 feet above the intersection of Broad and Market Streets at Penn Square, the central square of Philadelphia's five main squares.[citation needed]

The "Curse of Billy Penn" allegedly haunted the statue after the completion of Liberty Place. No Philadelphia major professional sports team captured a national championship for more than twenty years. So during the "topping off" ceremony of the Comcast Center on June 18, 2007, Bill Hankowsky of Liberty Property Trust placed a small statue of William Penn on the topping beam. "We don't believe in the myth, but to be safe we've added the statue of Billy Penn to the top of the Comcast Center," said Hankowsky at the time.[112] The following year the Philadelphia Phillies won the 2008 World Series, the first national championship for a Philadelphia professional sports team since 1983, when the Philadelphia 76ers captured the NBA championship."

could mean height restriction

Peter Matteson 03-11-2010 10:34

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
I've been asking for a small game object that we have to mive in bulk like this for years. It's one of the few items that would force teams to reconsider the way they design game object manipulation devices.

New challenge = good game shake up

JesseK 03-11-2010 10:54

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Tennis balls aren't easy. There is potential for a great many of them in last year's robot dimensions, and they will easily jam when in large hoppers.

If tennis balls are indeed this year's game piece, there may be some design concepts of interest from both the VRC and the FTC robots of 2009-2010.

JamesCH95 03-11-2010 11:17

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Everyone seems to be assuming that it's a regulation sized tennis ball. What if it was this? Or this? Or even this? Maybe they are mixed together and we have to sort them out!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :eek:

Edit: Dave's picture looks suspiciously like the 4" size...

Chris is me 03-11-2010 11:29

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
That's exactly the same picture. Dave's picture isn't of a normal tennis ball, but a 4 inch tennis ball. That has to be significant...

Note also that dave left out his signature in the first post, leaving 4 "sentences". There's that number 4 again.

Taylor 03-11-2010 12:32

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
A game piece that is economical and widely accessible across many different markets, geographic regions, and cultures?
Naw, that's not the GDC's style.

synth3tk 03-11-2010 12:35

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
It may not necessarily be 4" game pieces, but as Chris pointed out, the number 4 is shaping up to be an important number.

EricH 03-11-2010 12:53

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
The last time a number kept cropping up in the "hints" that Dave and others released, it was 3. At the time, only two teams on an alliance were on the field at the same time, no matter if the alliance was 2 or 3 teams. This was back in late 2004.

In 2005, there were 3-team alliances on the field for the first time, the game was Triple Play, and a single scoring object was worth 3 points (unless it met certain conditions), and there was a multiple of 3 places to score.

We'll see what rabbit trails the rest of the red herrings lead us down.

JamesCH95 03-11-2010 12:56

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Earth, wind, fire, water :eek:

Possibly 4 robots per alliance? o.O
Only 4 game pieces?
Four zones to the playing field?
Many things could be four...

Chris is me 03-11-2010 13:07

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 979424)
The last time a number kept cropping up in the "hints" that Dave and others released, it was 3. At the time, only two teams on an alliance were on the field at the same time, no matter if the alliance was 2 or 3 teams. This was back in late 2004.

In 2007, the number "5" was an important part of the game hint. 2007 was a first anniversary year, and the 5th season of FRC featured a game with inner tubes, the 2007 game piece.

If you use the same methodology as the previous hint, references are made to Hexagon Havoc, a 1v1[v1] game with 8 and 24 inch circumfrence balls. In the final rounds when the game went from 3 teams to 2 team matches, there were 4 of the 24 inch balls on the field.

Other instances of the number 4: goals in 2004 (widely regarded to be one of the best FIRST games), big balls in 2001, periods in 2006, balls in 2008.

Greg Young 03-11-2010 13:22

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
You're getting pretty far afield here with the numerology.

It's actually a regulation tennis ball. The 4 is a reference to the 4" inside diameter of the 10' tall pipe that serves as a goal.

I should mention that you have to climb the pipe to pull down the sleeve (80 lbs required for activation) that opens the cover so you can drop the tennis ball in.

It's all very simple.

Joe Schornak 03-11-2010 13:53

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesCH95 (Post 979425)
Earth, wind, fire, water :eek:

Heart!

It's a Captain Planet-themed game!

pandamonium 03-11-2010 13:53

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
I am not following this 4 fixation numerology thing i think we are straying off track. Until 4 comes up again lets table this for now and focus on the tennis ball or the Penn.

Tennis courts have a large net dividing the court in half. Maybe the field will have a net or wall. Tennis courts also have certain lines and serving restrictions. Perhaps there will be a tennis like scoring system.

30 - Love :)

Dustin Shadbolt 03-11-2010 14:04

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
And so it begins :).

JohnBoucher 03-11-2010 14:09

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesCH95 (Post 979425)
Earth, wind, fire, water :eek:

Possibly 4 robots per alliance?

Number of spots are set for champs. I doubt the alliance will change from 3

Chris is me 03-11-2010 14:53

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher (Post 979437)
Number of spots are set for champs. I doubt the alliance will change from 3

The number of spots accommodates 4 regional winners at present; the fourth slot is just rarely used since it is for the backup team. I do not think FIRST has lowered pre-registration enough to accomodate for this though.

Bjenks548 03-11-2010 15:02

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
He could also be giving us a hint to what its not... not a sphere. If you look at the last 3 games they have all been spheres. This means that no current students will have worked with anything other then spheres (I know a ton of mentors have been around 4+ years).
Again with the not theory, they said they would not be celebrating the 20th anniversary of FIRST (I thought i read that somewhere) but would wait for the 25th anniversary celebration. Just the sort of thing to throw us in the complete opposite direction.

pandamonium 03-11-2010 15:42

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
While looking back I came across the letter sent out to teams at the end of August here is a few lines:

We were able to ‘play’ through the game several times this weekend with GDC members and FRC Staff standing in as robots and can now turn our attention to the scoring, rules, game hints and last minute diabolical twists.


Turns and diabolical twists + Tennis balls = MAZE CRAZE 2.0

BJC 03-11-2010 15:54

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
I just came across this. Dave said it in an old 2004 thread in referance.

Quote:

p.s. sometimes the best hints are the most obvious.

Jon Stratis 03-11-2010 15:57

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
If we're going with the tennis ball theory, I want to throw this into the ring for consideration...

1-inch tennis balls + readily available at most pet stores + insanely cheap = 100's of them on the field. And in true GDC fashion, none of the companies involved would know about it before hand, or even really be aware of FIRST... shortages abound!

pandamonium 03-11-2010 15:58

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
what if tennis balls aren't the game piece at all what if they are the game surface just like a 2 inch layer of corn was the game surface for maze craze. Robots in a ball bit I can not think of a more diabolical challenge than that it's even worse than fake ice :)

vhcook 03-11-2010 16:02

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pandamonium (Post 979464)
what if tennis balls aren't the game piece at all what if they are the game surface just like a 2 inch layer of corn was the game surface for maze craze. Robots in a ball bit I can not think of a more diabolical challenge than that it's even worse than fake ice :)

Field reset would get a little interesting, if that were the case.

nighterfighter 03-11-2010 16:08

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vhcook (Post 979465)
Field reset would get a little interesting, if that were the case.

And that's part of the game... The field is never reset!
Muhahaha!

JamesCH95 03-11-2010 16:10

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pandamonium (Post 979454)
While looking back I came across the letter sent out to teams at the end of August here is a few lines:

We were able to ‘play’ through the game several times this weekend with GDC members and FRC Staff standing in as robots and can now turn our attention to the scoring, rules, game hints and last minute diabolical twists.


Turns and diabolical twists + Tennis balls = MAZE CRAZE 2.0

All I can think of is seeing robots spin on a merry-go-round ...

Dustin Shadbolt 03-11-2010 16:12

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pandamonium (Post 979454)
While looking back I came across the letter sent out to teams at the end of August here is a few lines:

We were able to ‘play’ through the game several times this weekend with GDC members and FRC Staff standing in as robots and can now turn our attention to the scoring, rules, game hints and last minute diabolical twists.


Turns and diabolical twists + Tennis balls = MAZE CRAZE 2.0

Nice.... That would be a blast.

Wildcat 03-11-2010 16:23

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pandamonium (Post 979464)
what if tennis balls aren't the game piece at all what if they are the game surface just like a 2 inch layer of corn was the game surface for maze craze. Robots in a ball bit I can not think of a more diabolical challenge than that it's even worse than fake ice :)

cant see that happening, poses too big a safety hazard to field crew and humans setting up and removing robots. runs a high risk of someone stepping on a ball and twisting their ankle and possibly dropping 120+ pounds of robot on themselves or someone else

pandamonium 03-11-2010 16:42

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Here is that entire letter:

Good Afternoon Teams,

The GDC came, they saw they redesigned. Calum and Paul weren’t able to join us this weekend, so some of the aesthetics of the design may change once they get their hands on it, but we think we have the 2011 game. We were able to ‘play’ through the game several times this weekend with GDC members and FRC Staff standing in as robots and can now turn our attention to the scoring, rules, game hints and last minute diabolical twists. Robots will be required to have bumpers, so buy your pool noodles now while they are still in season. (And no, this requirement has nothing to do with the bruise on Carla’s ankle.)

We built a robot out of parts expected to be in the 2011 kit and Ryan tried it out on the prototype field. It did what was expected. I bet you didn’t know we do that to make sure the kit can accommodate the game.

We were still making changes as of 2PM on Sunday, so there is always a risk that the game will change again (We are engineers after all. We always want to make one more improvement followed by just one more and just one more after that.) But I’m excited, it looks like we have the basics of the 2011 game. Now the FRC staff and I just have to find game pieces, work on CAD drawings, bid out the major construction, build field elements, build road cases, get the manual on line and a million other little things.

Oh, and they loved the pepper bacon and Haagen-Dazs.

131 days to Kickoff
See you then!

So one of the members bruised her ankle while testing the game. WHat if she slipped on a tennis ball? Perhaps there are raised platforms that are ball free that humans can walk on for moving robots on and off of the field and robots can drive on as well.

JohnBoucher 03-11-2010 16:43

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pandamonium (Post 979464)
what if tennis balls aren't the game piece at all what if they are the game surface just like a 2 inch layer of corn was the game surface for maze craze. Robots in a ball bit I can not think of a more diabolical challenge than that it's even worse than fake ice :)

What a way to tear up a drivetrain !

Wildcat 03-11-2010 16:57

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
in connection to the 4 discussion and the tennis ball, maybe it means that we will be playing on a field equivalent to a full size tennis court since it is about .4 times larger than a standard frc field

RoboDesigners 03-11-2010 18:28

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Ok, I'm not on an FRC team, and this is my first "Game Hint" season while being on CD, so some of my ideas may not be that great...

General ideas:
1. Ball bucket - Game field has 6' (or higher) polycarb walls and is filled to 3' with different sized tennis balls (hint 2). The game is cooperative, with each set of alliances trying to empty as many tennis balls over the side as possible. In the finals, the team are competitive, dumping as many tennis balls into the other alliance station as possible. :D
2. Robots must be made of LEGOs (hint 1) or some other odd material. :]
3. Robots must play tennis
4. 4 teams allowed on the field at a time. (2 per alliance)
5. From my general impression of this forum, dLavery seems to be the type who would post cryptic things for no reason, therefore, my best idea is that he just wanted to have fun and make us go crazy speculating... :)

ATannahill 03-11-2010 18:43

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboDesigners (Post 979493)
5. From my general impression of this forum, dLavery seems to be the type who would post cryptic things for no reason, therefore, my best idea is that he just wanted to have fun and make us go crazy speculating... :)

We have a winner!

Karibou 03-11-2010 18:46

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjenks548 (Post 979444)
He could also be giving us a hint to what its not... not a sphere. If you look at the last 3 games they have all been spheres. This means that no current students will have worked with anything other then spheres (I know a ton of mentors have been around 4+ years).
Again with the not theory, they said they would not be celebrating the 20th anniversary of FIRST (I thought i read that somewhere) but would wait for the 25th anniversary celebration. Just the sort of thing to throw us in the complete opposite direction.

But we have worked with different varieties of spheres (different sizes and textures). I hardly consider the 2009 orbit balls as balls. As much as I would love to work with something that I cannot find the diameter of, I can't help but notice that the game pieces are getting progressively smaller.

I also don't mean to hijack the thread, but I know it'll come up eventually: http://www.pennreels.com/ (third link that comes up in a Google search for "Penn" - the first two were for the University of Pennsylvania). While I agree with what Chris said in another thread, and that it's probably just a tennis ball and brand has nothing to do with the hint, I do think that involving reels would make for an interesting game (entanglement issues aside).

TD912 03-11-2010 18:51

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Penn? Pens? Playpen?

Reminds me of this XKCD:
http://xkcd.com/150/

Odd "grownup" references aside, could be something to do with fences or walls? Or contained areas?

Maybe even a raised container above the field, something like this but a bit sturdier? http://www.target.com/A401010-Balloo...dp/B000Z55P1O/

4? 4 teams? Maybe back to a 2v2 game? Doubles tennis?

Or maybe something to do with the felt texture of tennis balls?

apalrd 03-11-2010 18:51

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboDesigners (Post 979493)
...dLavery seems to be the type who would post cryptic things for no reason...

Correct. (Ever hear of his morse code from last year?)


My thoughts on 4:
Pure cooperation (think 2001) with 4 teams per match and alliance.
-Maybe its making us think of this game, where teams specialized.

2004 game (FIRST Frenzy)
-Small balls
-Large balls
-Stationary goals
-Movable goals
-multi-level platform
-Hang from the bar
This means that we could have to do a lot of different things, and each team will have to specialize.

4
ways to score (Maybe 4 goals of various levels of difficulty)

4 game pieces (balls of 4 different sizes)

My thoughts on tennis ball:
It's not a ball game
It's not tennis balls
The robots are tethered like in Maize Craze (I certainly hope not)
Corn (Maize Craze again)


My thoughts overall:
Lots and lots of game pieces, possibly of various sizes
Multiple ways to score
Specialization, like the 2001 and 2004 games?

About the GDC's "Diabolical Twists": the 2001 game was called "Diabolical Dynamics".

About the bruise on Carla's ankle: The bumper level is back down where it used to be, no bumps. (the current bumpers are just below knee level, not around ankle level)

Apparently the kit can accommodate the game, so the game won't be unachievable for a kitbot (In 2009, you couldn't score if you were just a kitbot. In 2010 and 2008, you could).

Cyberphil 03-11-2010 19:04

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
I have a speculation for you all:

What if it was not the actual ball he was referring to, but rather the stringy material on the outside of the ball. I am sure that material would be easily picked up by hook Velcro.

Lets see how far this goes. . . .

Zholl 03-11-2010 19:13

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyberphil (Post 979501)
I have a speculation for you all:

What if it was not the actual ball he was referring to, but rather the stringy material on the outside of the ball. I am sure that material would be easily picked up by hook Velcro.

Lets see how far this goes. . . .

two things come to mind with the velcro idea. this children's game with these frog gun things that have tongues that shoot out when you pull the trigger, and they have velcro on the end of them that you use to snag these little flies (I'm looking for a picture, but I can't find it), and then this

Karibou 03-11-2010 19:43

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zholl (Post 979504)
two things come to mind with the velcro idea. this children's game with these frog gun things that have tongues that shoot out when you pull the trigger, and they have velcro on the end of them that you use to snag these little flies (I'm looking for a picture, but I can't find it), and then this

I don't know of that children's game, but I do know of this one. For those not familiar with it...it's like playing catch with a baseball, except the "mitts" are circles with hook velcro to latch onto the tennis ball, which is what is being thrown around. Not sure how you could incorporate that into a game safely, though.

MattC9 03-11-2010 20:10

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Remember the game hint from 2009? fish? water game no. (sorry guys) 2010 ball return part? tracks? no. Dave always has a hidden message, and it seems to be about the field. 4" bumps on the field this year giant dome in the center? to me that would be pretty cool.

EricH 03-11-2010 20:18

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher (Post 979477)
What a way to tear up a drivetrain !

Who said anything about having a drivetrain?

Bjenks548 03-11-2010 20:20

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karibou (Post 979497)
But we have worked with different varieties of spheres (different sizes and textures). I hardly consider the 2009 orbit balls as balls. As much as I would love to work with something that I cannot find the diameter of, I can't help but notice that the game pieces are getting progressively smaller.

I have to disagree, when we looked took the orbit balls as compressible spheres. In fact I can only think of one team (1918) that used a hook for their ingester to manipulate them in any other way then a compressible ball.

Wildcat 03-11-2010 20:23

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 979509)
Who said anything about having a drivetrain?

since the 4 clearly stands for 4" of water the robots have to float in meaning we wont need drive trains :rolleyes:

Cyberphil 03-11-2010 20:35

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
You guys are still thinking balls. I am thinking much more broad.

I am picturing multiple shapes (Cubes, Spheres etc) covered in that material. Maybe I am just speculating too much. Thats probably the case. :D Haha!

RoboDesigners 03-11-2010 20:45

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Oh, I got another one...
(I know this is pointless, but... :))
Ok, here goes:
1. A tennis ball is a sphere.
2. Spheres are one of the three "special shapes" that Archimedes studied
3. The FIRST logo is based on those three "special shapes"
4. The number 4 is cropping up everywhere

Therefore, the game will be played with 4 game items:
1. Sphere (circle)
2. Pyramid (triangle)
3. Cube (square)
4. A foam construction of the word "FIRST"

Side note:
What if the GDC uses these threads for designing future games? That could be scary! :)

Side note 2:
Have any of dlavery's comments/hints ever made sense (relating to the actual game)?

Katie_UPS 03-11-2010 22:05

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
My silly cents:
In 07 one game hint was the arm for the center rack... a game piece.
In 08 one game hint was the tortoise and the hare statues in Boston. That game was a "race"
In 09 one game hint was the fish. The MOON fish. LUNAcy.
In 10 the game hint was the middle gate, and the ball return... Both were parts of the field.

*Note: The GDC has no real consistency.*

Judging off that, my guess is a game piece. Unless we want to go the lunacy route, and assume the name of the object has something to do with the game. Tennis-ball surface, anyone? Reverse lunacy-TOO MUCH FRICTION TO EVEN MOVE.

Brandon_L 03-11-2010 22:05

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Oh boy. Its this time of year already?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboDesigners (Post 979517)
Side note 2:
Have any of dlavery's comments/hints ever made sense (relating to the actual game)?

Yep. Er, only the ones I remember at least.

Fish - If I remember correctly it was a moon fish. Lunacy=Moon theme, floor=low gravity simulation

2010 picture of section of the field - showed the turf we were going to play on, as well as showing what WASN'T in that part of the field (bumps, tower)

All I remember off the top of my head

EricH 03-11-2010 22:27

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboDesigners (Post 979517)
Side note 2:
Have any of dlavery's comments/hints ever made sense (relating to the actual game)?

Yes and no. His red herrings in 2006, in hindsight, fit the game perfectly. Someone actually came close to the game, but was still quite far out. (A couple of the hints were actually a link to the un-diabolically-twisted game idea, if you followed them right. One was placed in a caption contest, run by the guy who posted the "inspiration"...)

Of course, this only made sense after a couple days after Kickoff...

On the official hints:
2009 also had a riddle that told the type of surface, the location of the maker of the game objects, the existence of the trailers (again, between the lines), and something else, I forget what.
2008 had 3 hints; the last one was the letters for the encryption key (but not the symbols) and included a reference to one of the actions. I forget what the first one was.
2006 was a riddle in the shape of the game piece telling about bumpers, lights, and other miscellaneous details.
2003 was the scoring algorithm.
2004 was a line from "Stairway to Heaven" telling about the stairs and "heaven" (10' high bar) in the middle of the field.
2005 was a riddle having to do with the number 3 and the game name.

NickE 03-11-2010 23:06

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat (Post 979480)
in connection to the 4 discussion and the tennis ball, maybe it means that we will be playing on a field equivalent to a full size tennis court since it is about .4 times larger than a standard frc field

With FIRST already struggling to fit enough fields inside the arena in St. Louis, I doubt the physical fields will grow.

Karibou 03-11-2010 23:11

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 979540)
2008 had 3 hints; the last one was the letters for the encryption key (but not the symbols) and included a reference to one of the actions. I forget what the first one was.

The first hint from 2008 was the IR sensors that were shipped out to a few teams (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ght=game+hint).

The second hint, which was already mentioned in this thread, was a set of coordinates pointing to a statue which referenced a race

pandamonium 03-11-2010 23:31

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
06-For aim high a clue was a "shovels show" one person figured it out! David spade... Just shoot me = shooting game (granted he didn't know he came up with it though)

many people figured out the race and the moonfish

a few people got the tube clue from a picture of the animation that was sent out and the soccer ball from the picture of the track mount that was sent out...

if Dave did give us the game piece it was probably for one of two reasons
#1. he knew we would over analyze it and possibly even overlook it
#2. This game is so crazy that he could ship us all tennis balls maybe even come right out and tell us that this game uses them but we would still not have the slightest idea of the crazy game concept.


*I was in the 5th grade classroom of the lego team I help with and had an idea so simple it hit me. The little chairs have tenis balls on the feet so they slide and don't make noise* = Moveable Goals!

blackiceskier 03-11-2010 23:34

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyberphil (Post 979501)
I have a speculation for you all:

What if it was not the actual ball he was referring to, but rather the stringy material on the outside of the ball. I am sure that material would be easily picked up by hook Velcro.

Lets see how far this goes. . . .

a spin off of this could be the field is the felt of the tennis ball kind of like the fish hint for lunacy was a reference to the slick field, maybe the field is going to be felt like

Just a FTCers opinion on the topic

r2davis2 04-11-2010 00:21

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Okay so here's a rather long and detailed trail of clues I've picked up so bear with me.

1. Penn ball - Sean Penn actor
2. Sean Penn - famous for Rainman
3. Rainman obsesses of "who is on first base"
4. when one types "first base" into google the 4th result is http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=first_home which is the autodesk page for FIRST robotics.

Thats were I ran out of clues but maybe someone else can pick up the trail, and yes I realize this is a huge stretch.

r2davis2 04-11-2010 00:30

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Okay so this one's a stretch, but does have some interesting coincidences, so here goes.

1. Penn ball = Sean Penn
2. Sean Penn is famous for his acting in Rainman
3. In Rainman Penn's character is obsessed "who is on first base"
4. when one types first base into google the 4th result is http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=first_home the autodesk FIRST robotics home
5.(this is where it gets even more sketchy) when you go under training resources two names are mentioned, Phil Dollan and Ted Boardman, and when these names are searched on google the 4th result is on of their blogs which has a google description that mentions FIRST and the Georgia Dome

Thats where I lost the "trail" if you can call it that, but maybe someone else can pick up another clue from this chain of "coincidences".

synth3tk 04-11-2010 00:45

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pandamonium (Post 979556)
if Dave did give us the game piece it was probably for one of two reasons
#1. he knew we would over analyze it and possibly even overlook it
#2. This game is so crazy that he could ship us all tennis balls maybe even come right out and tell us that this game uses them but we would still not have the slightest idea of the crazy game concept.

Running with #2, we wouldn't know what was legal. For all we know, we may be able to herd the balls, but not shoot them. Or, we may not be allowed to use vacuum/suction. There's just way too many factors of an FRC game to make any assumptions.

EricH 04-11-2010 01:12

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pandamonium (Post 979556)
06-For aim high a clue was a "shovels show" one person figured it out! David spade... Just shoot me = shooting game (granted he didn't know he came up with it though)

Actually, the game hint for 2006 was as follows:

____Five bots tangling with pasta
A game piece obsessed with a shovel's show
__And seeing Montana's green heights

The breakdown:
5 bots: during 2 periods of the game, only 5 robots could be on a side of the field. 2 were playing defense, hence the tangling. Pasta referred to the pool noodles used in bumpers.
Shovel's show: Just Shoot Me
Montana's green heights: High target, marked with a green light that could be seen. For bonus points, Joe Montana was an NFL quarterback, who threw footballs during 4 game periods every time he played.

Dave also referenced a "fox in the henhouse" (game objects tended to scatter when a robot came through, and the robots ate the balls before shooting them) and "hovercraft and the English Channel" (nice wide space in the middle of the field that had to be crossed to score) prior to the 2006 Kickoff.

Courtneyb1023 04-11-2010 08:27

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 979570)
Montana's green heights: High target, marked with a green light that could be seen.

That tennis ball looks suspiciously green-ish to me :)

Wayne TenBrink 04-11-2010 13:39

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Here's a radical thought: Maybe Dave was just wondering if the "universal robotic gripper" (different thread) with its smooth, high friction, vacuum forming, conforming skin could pick up something fuzzy, comparatively large, and flexible - like a tennis ball. He does have an inquisitive mind, after all. Perhaps it has nothing to do with the 2011 game.

But where's the fun in that???

pandamonium 04-11-2010 14:14

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 979327)
The official game hint does not come out until December.

oops the first Dave comment in the first post was in reply to this post. which indicates that it may come early :)

Hadi379 04-11-2010 14:35

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Felt covered field with velcro wheels????

EricH 04-11-2010 14:48

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hadi379 (Post 979623)
Felt covered field with velcro wheels????

Unless the velcro was loop side, the field surface would need replacing after one day--robots would damage it worse than the most damaging game played in 2002, 2vsFRC71 (which, BTW, 71's file cards had a tendency to win).

Now that's devious: Hook-side velcro as the field, with loop-side as robot drive material. Get the field damaging the robots for once!

GGCO 04-11-2010 15:26

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
The problem I see with a felt or "fuzzy" field is that the texture and "fuzziness" would seriously wear out over time.

Wildcat 04-11-2010 15:46

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GGCO (Post 979628)
The problem I see with a felt or "fuzzy" field is that the texture and "fuzziness" would seriously wear out over time.

im pretty sure no matter what the field surface (except water) would wear out over time. i remember in 09 hearing about how much new regalith was for driving on than used. and last year by the time the state championship came around im pretty sure the field had quite a few tape patches on it

S.P.A.M.er 17 04-11-2010 16:34

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
I got it. Penn was referring to a game piece, but it was spelled wit an extra "n" on purpose to throw us off (making us think of tennis balls). This year's game is actually a writing contest! Our robots must write a "4" paragraph essay. The diabolical twist? The paper is on the back of opposing robots... (so that means we missed out in watching the GDC members and FRC Staff running around with a piece of paper taped to their back, while others tried write an essay on it.)

EricH 04-11-2010 16:42

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Except that Penn is a brand of tennis ball.

Either that, or robots must test the myth that the pen is mightier than the sword.

Travis Hoffman 04-11-2010 20:22

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
All I've got to say is...


GGCO 04-11-2010 20:41

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S.P.A.M.er 17 (Post 979638)
I got it. Penn was referring to a game piece, but it was spelled wit an extra "n" on purpose to throw us off (making us think of tennis balls). This year's game is actually a writing contest! Our robots must write a "4" paragraph essay. The diabolical twist? The paper is on the back of opposing robots... (so that means we missed out in watching the GDC members and FRC Staff running around with a piece of paper taped to their back, while others tried write an essay on it.)

That would be VERY interesting - to build that is! Uber boring to watch.

I think an american gladiators style game where two sides bombard each other with massive amounts of tennis balls would be an absolute blast!

Wildcat 04-11-2010 20:53

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GGCO (Post 979683)
That would be VERY interesting - to build that is! Uber boring to watch.

I think an american gladiators style game where two sides bombard each other with massive amounts of tennis balls would be an absolute blast!

...i guess we know what human players are gonna be doing now

dodar 04-11-2010 21:32

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
DODGEBALL!!!!!

Karibou 04-11-2010 22:21

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S.P.A.M.er 17 (Post 979638)
I got it. Penn was referring to a game piece, but it was spelled wit an extra "n" on purpose to throw us off (making us think of tennis balls). This year's game is actually a writing contest! Our robots must write a "4" paragraph essay. The diabolical twist? The paper is on the back of opposing robots... (so that means we missed out in watching the GDC members and FRC Staff running around with a piece of paper taped to their back, while others tried write an essay on it.)

So FIRST will force us to learn how to write. Colleges already love FIRST students, but they'll be giving future engineering students an arm and a leg of scholarship money to come to their school because we'll ACTUALLY know how to write. From what I've heard*, engineering studentz dont hav gewd eenglish...


*and seen exhibited by others. As a journalism student, it's something that really bugs me.

PAR_WIG1350 04-11-2010 22:52

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat (Post 979688)
...i guess we know what human players are gonna be doing now

Hiding:eek:
(I was the human player last year and there were enough flying/swinging objects then)

EricH 04-11-2010 22:52

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Of course, we all know the solution to that little writing challenge, right?


Rubber stamps. Write essay portions out beforehand, make rubber stamps of them, and have an ink roller on the robot. One hit from a 4-paragraph stamp pad should do the trick on every robot... That means that you spend the first minute stamping all three of your opponents and the second minute backed up against a wall protecting your back.

Cyberphil 04-11-2010 23:46

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Or a giant one of these:



Just run into the other bot, or have a button that engages it!

alicen 04-11-2010 23:48

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Going off some of the other ideas..

When I was in elementary school we played a game called "trash" where we would be split into two teams and each confined to our side of the line in the middle of the gym. When the coach shouted go, we would all race around trying to throw these balls from our side to the other side. The team with the most "trash" on their side at the end would lose.

Imagine a wall in the middle of the field, about three feet high or so, made of polycarbonate and the robots had to throw as much of their game pieces over the wall as possible. Maybe there would even be one opposing robot in your zone to make things interesting.

Just an idea really :)

EricH 05-11-2010 00:13

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alicen (Post 979712)
Going off some of the other ideas..

When I was in elementary school we played a game called "trash" where we would be split into two teams and each confined to our side of the line in the middle of the gym. When the coach shouted go, we would all race around trying to throw these balls from our side to the other side. The team with the most "trash" on their side at the end would lose.

Imagine a wall in the middle of the field, about three feet high or so, made of polycarbonate and the robots had to throw as much of their game pieces over the wall as possible. Maybe there would even be one opposing robot in your zone to make things interesting.

Just an idea really :)

Clean Sweep, a VEX Robotics Competition game. Now scale it up...

Cyberphil 05-11-2010 00:28

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Hmm, interesting. . . Do you think FIRST would really use essentially the same game as the VRC? I would sure hope not. That does not make for much fun or innovation at all.

I think it would be a fun game, but it would be defeating the purpose of being on an FRC team.

I have more faith in FIRST than that, and I am sure they will come up with a fun and competitive game no matter what.

BJC 05-11-2010 00:48

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
You guys are pretty much exactly describing the 2010 OCCRA robotics game. Except theres abunch of 10in balls and a 5ft chain link wall with a ramp in the middle to cross the the other side of the field. Balls are worth 1 on the other side of the field and there are also bonus balls which are worth 3 points. There is even clean sweeps. Actually the comp season is right now and its pretty fun to watch. Might be some videos on youtube. But anyway, the FIRST game probably wont be one that has recently been used in two other seperate robot games. Just saying.

HumblePie 11-11-2010 06:39

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Given how cryptic these things have been in the past, here goes some speculating from a newbie on this board..........

I don't think the tennis ball is meant to be a direct clue to the game pieces or the field. That would be too easy. I am, however, intrigued by the "Penn" label since they could have chosen any manufacturer, so why this one?

How about the fact that the University of Pennsylvania (founded in 1740, so no anniversary there) was founded by Ben Franklin. Franklin Sports markets sporting goods equipment for hockey, baseball, and football to name a few.


This is as far as I can go, and still probably a reach for this early in the season.

Dustin Shadbolt 11-11-2010 17:54

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HumblePie (Post 980461)
Given how cryptic these things have been in the past, here goes some speculating from a newbie on this board..........

I don't think the tennis ball is meant to be a direct clue to the game pieces or the field. That would be too easy. I am, however, intrigued by the "Penn" label since they could have chosen any manufacturer, so why this one?

How about the fact that the University of Pennsylvania (founded in 1740, so no anniversary there) was founded by Ben Franklin. Franklin Sports markets sporting goods equipment for hockey, baseball, and football to name a few.


This is as far as I can go, and still probably a reach for this early in the season.

Nice thinking. I was kind of wondering if the PENN part was the message.

HumblePie 12-11-2010 11:18

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Here's another "Penn" connection....

Penn State Coach Joe Paterno just celebrated a Div I record 400th win in college football. Didn't I see others discussing the significance of the number "4" ? Could the "diabolical twist" refer to the spin required to throw a football accurately?

Just sayin.........

pandamonium 18-11-2010 09:05

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
bill's blog yesterday said that they had just come up with the name and that game "hints" plural would be beginning soon. So the pen conection probably is a stretch especially if they didn't finish the game name yet.

rsisk 18-11-2010 11:24

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Combining the "blue cake" hint from another thread with the previous "red-herrings" could mean we are going to a 4-alliance competition. Instead of just Red Alliance/Blue Alliance we will now have the....

1. Blue Cake Alliance
2. Red Herring Alliance
3. Yellow Fuzzy Alliance
4. and one more alliance just waiting to be announced...

Taylor 18-11-2010 11:49

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rsisk (Post 981210)
Combining the "blue cake" hint from another thread with the previous "red-herrings" could mean we are going to a 4-alliance competition. Instead of just Red Alliance/Blue Alliance we will now have the....

1. Blue Cake Alliance
2. Red Herring Alliance
3. Yellow Fuzzy Alliance
4. and one more alliance just waiting to be announced...

4. Green Lantern Alliance

dodar 18-11-2010 12:33

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
OMG! Four-Square with tennis balls!!!

JaneYoung 18-11-2010 12:37

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pandamonium (Post 981195)
So the pen conection probably is a stretch especially if they didn't finish the game name yet.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the GDC agrees on the name of the game challenge.

pandamonium 18-11-2010 13:35

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Jane even if they gave us any of the past few game names how many people would have guessed even close? actually they would be better off giving us the name then the hints.
Break away? come on that game could have had a better name then that

other than Aim High that one is pretty obvious

Ryan Caldwell 18-11-2010 13:42

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
The picture on Bills Blog has the GDC on stairs...The bump was good fun maybe this year its steps.

The tennis ball has no scale...it could be 1" or 12" dia.

And i don't think there will be less that 6 robots on the field at a time after all the energy put into trying to increase the # of games each team plays.

JaneYoung 18-11-2010 13:52

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
^ I don't believe that is a photo of the GDC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandamonium (Post 981220)
Jane even if they gave us any of the past few game names how many people would have guessed even close? actually they would be better off giving us the name then the hints.
Break away? come on that game could have had a better name then that

other than Aim High that one is pretty obvious

I wasn't thinking of the actual name, I was thinking of the process of a group of people arriving at the name. Especially clever people who love plays on words. It was a humorous thought. Sorry to be so silly in a red herring thread.

Jane

P.S. I thought Breakaway was a great name and the game logo was awesome.

blackiceskier 18-11-2010 14:44

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rsisk (Post 981210)
Combining the "blue cake" hint from another thread with the previous "red-herrings" could mean we are going to a 4-alliance competition. Instead of just Red Alliance/Blue Alliance we will now have the....

1. Blue Cake Alliance
2. Red Herring Alliance
3. Yellow Fuzzy Alliance
4. and one more alliance just waiting to be announced...

The green alliance is going to be next. They are going to have 4 alliances again referring to the leftover lights from the Diabolical Dynamics game in 2001 where they had 4 alliances, but this time around they are going to be alliances of 2 per color putting 8 teams on the field at once instead of the current 6 so that teams have more field time. This would make for an interesting elimination tree though.

Teams start making 2 more color bumpers in addition to the ones you have from breakaway :D

Wildcat 18-11-2010 15:19

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
shot in the dark, but maybe the # 4 is saying that during eliminations alliances will consist of 4 teams that may freely play interchangeabally among themselves throughout elims while qualifications still remain 3v3.
EX:
the #1 seed is teams A, B, C, and D. Teams A, B, and C play in round 1, teams A, B, and D play in round 2, and teams B, C, and D play in round 3

Vermeulen 18-11-2010 15:27

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
I'm still thinking that maybe the game's task would require the use of 4 robots on an alliance. I don't think that FIRST would have 4 alliances, because it is trying to make games more understandable to outsiders. Tracking 2 teams is easy, tracking 4 teams is harder. 4 alliances could also be hard for the FMS to track.

I like the idea of having alliances switch robots out in between matches. It opens up a lot of new strategy.

princessnatalie 18-11-2010 15:37

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Caldwell (Post 981221)
The picture on Bills Blog has the GDC on stairs...The bump was good fun maybe this year its steps.

The tennis ball has no scale...it could be 1" or 12" dia.

And i don't think there will be less that 6 robots on the field at a time after all the energy put into trying to increase the # of games each team plays.

I agree, when I first read the blog post I thought, "If its about a cake, wouldnt there be a picture of the cake? Not the people...?"

I thought it may be stairs, or different levels. With the levels, it could possibly be four...?

Also, I still think they may have different terrains, to go with the whole 20th aniversery deal. Four different terrains perhaps?

JaneYoung 18-11-2010 16:35

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
At the risk of being further annoying - it could be that congratulations are in order for Bill Miller for celebrating his 5th year with FRC. The fact that the full staff was there to help him celebrate is nice. They used the stairs much as schools do when having teams sit in the stands or stand on risers for yearbook photos.

The blue cake is interesting though. Can you imagine all of their teeth being blue after they ate it?

Jane

Bjenks548 18-11-2010 20:56

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
But isn't the cake a lie?

Cyberphil 18-11-2010 21:28

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjenks548 (Post 981266)
But isn't the cake a lie?

What a great random reference! I absolutely loved that game.


Oh! Back on topic.....:rolleyes:

Chinmay 18-11-2010 21:44

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
The stairs idea is really intriguing especially considering that Pittsburgh Pennsylvania has the most stairs of any city in the US

http://pittsburgh.about.com/od/about...gh/a/steps.htm

That would make for a very interesting field...

Wildcat 18-11-2010 22:06

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chinmay (Post 981272)
The stairs idea is really intriguing especially considering that Pittsburgh Pennsylvania has the most stairs of any city in the US

http://pittsburgh.about.com/od/about...gh/a/steps.htm

That would make for a very interesting field...

maybe in this years game field there will be an area in the middle only accessable via stairs that robots can put themselves or game pieces in for bonus points, or even normal points

Radical Pi 18-11-2010 22:20

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat (Post 981279)
maybe in this years game field there will be an area in the middle only accessable via stairs that robots can put themselves or game pieces in for bonus points, or even normal points

Or maybe we just have to get the robot to Pittsburgh by the end of the match :ahh:

Karibou 18-11-2010 22:41

Re: 2011 Red Herring #1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Radical Pi (Post 981283)
Or maybe we just have to get the robot to Pittsburgh by the end of the match :ahh:

24-hour matches, or longer? I'm game.


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