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-   -   [BB]: FIRST Choice (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87526)

EricH 15-11-2010 12:17
[BB]: FIRST Choice
 
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2010...st-choice.html

Get AM products on a first-come, first-serve basis for just the shipping cost? Sounds too good to be true, but it looks like it is true. The only question is, which items will be available? We'll find out... I'm hoping that extra CIMs will be in that bunch.

Chris is me 15-11-2010 13:06
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
I'm hoping AndyMark becomes an IFI distributor so I can get free Victors. Being a post-IFI team we only have 6, which is always just short of enough.

We've exclusively used AM gearboxes and products on the robot, and seeing as the KoP has not once included roughtop wheels we'll probably be in need of those too.

Madison 15-11-2010 13:38
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
It'll be interesting to learn if teams are allowed to request a fixed number of items, regardless of their cost, or if we're provided with a budget and can request any number of parts that fall within it.

Alan Anderson 15-11-2010 13:39
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
The "first-come, first-serve" nature strongly implies to me that FIRST Choice is not for typical off-the-shelf components. It seems likely that this is how FIRST has decided to handle donations of items that aren't of sufficient quantity to put one in every kit.

synth3tk 15-11-2010 14:11
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madison (Post 980887)
It'll be interesting to learn if teams are allowed to request a fixed number of items, regardless of their cost, or if we're provided with a budget and can request any number of parts that fall within it.
My guess is a limited fixed number of items. Probably more fair that way.

IKE 15-11-2010 16:31
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
:)
Nuff said.

Jon Stratis 15-11-2010 16:33
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth3tk (Post 980898)
My guess is a limited fixed number of items. Probably more fair that way.
But at the same time, there's a big difference between getting a $30 plaction wheel versus a $350 shifting transmission. Having a fixed dollar amount you could get would allow teams to get what they really need, instead of the really expensive items that they'll "probably use this season, so we should get it now cause it's expensive". If you have a fixed item amount, I can almost guarantee that demand will increase proportionally to item cost... cheap items will have very low demand, expensive ones very high (and thus shortages so not everyone can get what they want). With a fixed dollar amount, the demand would even out a bit more... although you'd probably still see more expensive items with higher demand, due to the psychology of "free money".

The challenge would come in with setting the dollar limit to a reasonable amount. Hypothetically, as a team, if we could get two shifting transmissions, that would be awesome. But if the dollar limit is less than that, we would be stuck getting one for free and buying one later. Of course, that's just the best example I could come up with... who knows what will actually be available, or what the actual price of items would be if they weren't free.

J93Wagner 15-11-2010 17:51
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
OOOOHHHHHH, SHINY!

In all seriousness though, this is going to be a huge help for a lot of teams. Personally, I'm hoping for more shiny plaction wheels and maybe a couple more shiny Gen. 2 Super Shifters, or maybe a couple of shiny 12V, 18 Amp-hour batteries, or maybe even a handful of shiny stop buttons (we broke three, and I'm also assuming that we'll still need them).

Point is, there is stuff that will be used during the build and competitions.

Also, if you haven't noticed, I have OLS (OH! LOOK! SHINY!)

Mark McLeod 15-11-2010 17:54
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J93Wagner (Post 980942)
or maybe even a handful of shiny stop buttons (we broke three, and I'm also assuming that we'll still need them).
You do know that you never needed the Stop button?

Aren_Hill 15-11-2010 18:01
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 980876)

Get AM products on a first-come, first-serve basis for just the shipping cost? .
The way I read it there will be a separate section of the site for typical KOP items, Not AM items for free.

While yes andymark does provide many KOP items, I highly doubt they'll let much past the standard kitframe, wheels, and toughboxes go free.

EricH 15-11-2010 18:12
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
AM does sell CIMs. I'd hope that at least those are included.

Of course, it'll all be clear later this year/early next year.

M. Mellott 15-11-2010 18:25
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
I also hope that some lower-cost items are limited to "X per customer". This would keep the temptation from anyone finding a great item and buying a large quantity.

For example: "OOOH, Plaction Wheels! We'll take 20!" (Not to say that they will be on the list--just an example)

ajlapp 15-11-2010 20:13
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
What’s FIRST Choice?
FIRST Choice is an online extension of the traditional KoP where teams can pick and choose the items they would like to add to their kits. The items are free, but teams incur the cost of shipping the items to them. You’ll notice that there aren’t enough pieces for everyone to have one of everything—so think of it more as a menu. Items will be assigned to teams on a first come-first serve basis.
The text from the post suggests to me that FIRST Choice applies to KOP items only.

Phoenix Spud 15-11-2010 20:25
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod (Post 980945)
You do know that you never needed the Stop button?
This is a good point, our team hasn't run with the Stop button since it broke about half way through build season. At that point, we didn't have time for the part to arrive and get through customs before build season was over. The space bar does the same job as the Stop button and doesn't require extra shipping!

AdamHeard 15-11-2010 20:26
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
I love the concept, I have a bad feeling that the teams that need this most will end up not knowing it exists or not doing it though.

Oh well, the world is run by those who show up.

artdutra04 15-11-2010 20:49
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Very interesting development, and depending on the details this could be really beneficial to teams and the program.
  • Problem: Some teams use 25-pitch roller chain almost exclusively, and never really use the 35-pitch parts from the KoP. Solution: Given FIRST Choice, teams can select which type they actually need.
  • Problem: The color of pneumatic tubing in the KoP every year always makes a small fraction of teams happy, but annoys the others. Solution: Given several different colors in FIRST Choice, teams can pick the color that best matches their team colors.
  • Problem: Some teams always use some X parts from the KoP but never use Y parts. Solution: Given less parts in KoP and FIRST Choice, teams can select which parts they actually need.
  • Problem: As FRC grows, finding companies to donate a part to every team is getting harder and harder. Solution: Given FIRST Choice, a company can donate several hundred widgets to the teams that really want/need such a part.
  • Donating a specific tool to every team can be a waste, as some teams might already have that tool. Solution: Given FIRST Choice, a company can donate a bunch of tools (such as hand tools, power tools, etc) and teams that really need said part can choose it.
Here's how I'm hoping it works:

Each team gets $X amount of money in donated FIRST Choice goods per round. First round opens up after kickoff, lasts a week. Second round opens up after that, lasts another week. Then the third round opens up with all limits removed. Limits on the first two rounds give all teams an equal chance, and elimination of caps on third round will ensure that any remaining FIRST Choice goods get claimed by teams who really want/need it.

Spoiler for Cue a Steve Jobs' "One More Thing" Keynote slide:
Bag of Crap. Make it happen.

DonRotolo 15-11-2010 20:54
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aren_Hill (Post 980947)
The way I read it there will be a separate section of the site for typical KOP items, Not AM items for free.
There was a forum at Championships where they discussed the KoP in detail, and this was one of the possible ideas they discussed. This is NOT "Free AndyMark Stuff", it is free KoP stuff, and the logistics of fulfillment are being managed by AndyMark. So get those dreams of free supershifters out of your head.:p

The following is educated and informed speculation:

The driving force was the question "What should FIRST do when they get a donation of 500 of something?" The can't put one in every KoP, they don't want to turn away the donation... so the FIRST Choice system described was born. At the CMP forum, FIRST's main concern was how to fulfill orders, and I see that (once again!) AndyMark has stepped up to the plate.

To get an idea of what kinds of stuff will be offered, think Brass Bag, Igus, Festo, AM Kitbot Frame, Circuit Breakers, Limit Switches, Terminals, Terminal Blocks, FASTON connectors, wire, and so on.

Expect that the KoP will contain the main items (motors, batteries, power panel, etc.) as before, but the stuff that only a percentage of the teams use might not.

ChuckDickerson 15-11-2010 22:43
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Rotolo (Post 980971)
To get an idea of what kinds of stuff will be offered, think Brass Bag, Igus, Festo, AM Kitbot Frame, Circuit Breakers, Limit Switches, Terminals, Terminal Blocks, FASTON connectors, wire, and so on.
So this begs the question: What's actually left that NEEDS to be shipped to veteran teams in the KoP tub(s)?

Start with last years KoP list. Subtract the stuff that has already been released that will only be in the rookie kit. Then subtract all the stuff from the KoP that wasn't used by the vast majority of teams (lots of the pneumatic components, Igus stuff, lead screw & nut, fans, latex tubing, etc.) or that most verteran teams have plenty of (circuit breakers, pneumatic tubing, wire terminals, wire, Spikes, zip-ties, etc). Now subtract the AM kit chassis, ToughBoxes, wheels, etc. that aren't used by a significant number of the veteran teams who build their own custom chassis, gearboxes, and/or wheels.

What's actually left that needs to be distributed to veteran teams at kickoff in the traditional plastic tubs? A battery, the 120A main breaker, a couple of jags, the CIM motors, maybe some of the other motors but even many of those aren't used by the majority of teams. Is there anything that REALLY needs to be shipped to veteran teams that couldn't be "purchased" from the "AM FIRST Choice Store" using some sort of a-la-cart FIRST cash voucher system? How much of the stuff in the plastic tubs do the majority of veteran teams actually NEED that is MANDATORY on the robot and that they don't probably already have in their shop?

It seems to me that there has always been a lot of stuff given to FIRST teams that has gone to waste. This seems like a good start at reducing some of that waste if it is implemented correctly. There are a lot of veteran teams with huge stockpiles of stuff leftover from previous years that is still the same as the stuff we get in the KoP every year. I'm pretty sure we have about 100 brand new 30A circuit breakers and 35 brand new Spikes in one of the parts drawers in the shop. I would love it if we don't get those in our KoP this year but could snag something we need and don't have from the FIRST Choice store instead. Even better would be if we find there is nothing in the FIRST Choice store that we need and then we could apply our "store credit" towards our registration fee.

AdamHeard 15-11-2010 22:56
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepWater (Post 980995)
So this begs the question: What's actually left that NEEDS to be shipped to veteran teams in the KoP tub(s)?

Start with last years KoP list. Subtract the stuff that has already been released that will only be in the rookie kit. Then subtract all the stuff from the KoP that wasn't used by the vast majority of teams (lots of the pneumatic components, Igus stuff, lead screw & nut, fans, latex tubing, etc.) or that most verteran teams have plenty of (circuit breakers, pneumatic tubing, wire terminals, wire, Spikes, zip-ties, etc). Now subtract the AM kit chassis, ToughBoxes, wheels, etc. that aren't used by a significant number of the veteran teams who build their own custom chassis, gearboxes, and/or wheels.

What's actually left that needs to be distributed to veteran teams at kickoff in the traditional plastic tubs? A battery, the 120A main breaker, a couple of jags, the CIM motors, maybe some of the other motors but even many of those aren't used by the majority of teams. Is there anything that REALLY needs to be shipped to veteran teams that couldn't be "purchased" from the "AM FIRST Choice Store" using some sort of a-la-cart FIRST cash voucher system? How much of the stuff in the plastic tubs do the majority of veteran teams actually NEED that is MANDATORY on the robot and that they don't probably already have in their shop?

It seems to me that there has always been a lot of stuff given to FIRST teams that has gone to waste. This seems like a good start at reducing some of that waste if it is implemented correctly. There are a lot of veteran teams with huge stockpiles of stuff leftover from previous years that is still the same as the stuff we get in the KoP every year. I'm pretty sure we have about 100 brand new 30A circuit breakers and 35 brand new Spikes in one of the parts drawers in the shop. I would love it if we don't get those in our KoP this year but could snag something we need and don't have from the FIRST Choice store instead. Even better would be if we find there is nothing in the FIRST Choice store that we need and then we could apply our "store credit" towards our registration fee.
Even with the option to choose the "Second half" of your kit; stripping down the kit to that level would be a horrible choice.

My team certainly doesn't have that amount of spare parts.

Cory 15-11-2010 23:11
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 980997)
Even with the option to choose the "Second half" of your kit; stripping down the kit to that level would be a horrible choice.

My team certainly doesn't have that amount of spare parts.
Agreed. We also give a lot of the stuff we don't use away to other teams who actually can use it.

I would be very upset if we did not get the kitbot, among other things. We may never use a toughbox on our robot, but all the gears and bearings get used.

AdamHeard 16-11-2010 01:20
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory (Post 980999)
Agreed. We also give a lot of the stuff we don't use away to other teams who actually can use it.

I would be very upset if we did not get the kitbot, among other things. We may never use a toughbox on our robot, but all the gears and bearings get used.
We use that stuff all the time for prototyping and testing as well.

Peter Matteson 16-11-2010 07:57
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 981005)
We use that stuff all the time for prototyping and testing as well.
Ditto.

Taylor 16-11-2010 12:24
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Maybe I'm way off base here, but I'm envisioning a larger-scale version of exactly what Bimba does.

On a side note, I'm willing to wager more teams use the kitbot chassis, trannies, and motors than one may realize. Even if they're not used during the build season.

Andy Baker 17-11-2010 10:43
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
You all are brilliant people. I will try to answer some questions, but please realize that I am restricted to what all I can say, since FIRST is working (with us) on a communication plan. I am glad to say that this program will be clearly defined within a few weeks, well before kickoff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Anderson (Post 980888)
The "first-come, first-serve" nature strongly implies to me that FIRST Choice is not for typical off-the-shelf components. It seems likely that this is how FIRST has decided to handle donations of items that aren't of sufficient quantity to put one in every kit.
Alan, once again, proves to be a very smart man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synth3tk (Post 980898)
My guess is a limited fixed number of items. Probably more fair that way.
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aren_Hill (Post 980947)
The way I read it there will be a separate section of the site for typical KOP items, Not AM items for free.
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajlapp (Post 980961)
The text from the post suggests to me that FIRST Choice applies to KOP items only.
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 980963)
I love the concept, I have a bad feeling that the teams that need this most will end up not knowing it exists or not doing it though.

Oh well, the world is run by those who show up.
This is a good point, Adam. (gosh, you guys are brilliant!) It's really up to us (the teams, AndyMark, FIRST) to help communicate this out to the FIRST community. So, tell your neighbor teams and the teams you mentor about this neat program. Like I said, the communication from FIRST and AM is coming soon. (it's going to be in our upcoming newsletter)

Quote:
Originally Posted by artdutra04 (Post 980969)
Very interesting development, and depending on the details this could be really beneficial to teams and the program.

<snipped> (Art explains many good ideas and issues, as usual)
Art the IV has good points here, and all concerns are very valid. We have thought of a BOC, and it would be fun, but I am not sure if this is the best way to do this fairly. It is more likely that we (AndyMark) may incorporate this outside of FIRST Choice for some of our old parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Rotolo (Post 980971)
There was a forum at Championships where they discussed the KoP in detail, and this was one of the possible ideas they discussed. This is NOT "Free AndyMark Stuff", it is free KoP stuff, and the logistics of fulfillment are being managed by AndyMark. So get those dreams of free supershifters out of your head.:p

The following is educated and informed speculation:

<snipped>

To get an idea of what kinds of stuff will be offered, think Brass Bag, Igus, Festo, AM Kitbot Frame, Circuit Breakers, Limit Switches, Terminals, Terminal Blocks, FASTON connectors, wire, and so on.

Expect that the KoP will contain the main items (motors, batteries, power panel, etc.) as before, but the stuff that only a percentage of the teams use might not.
Don is right on. Maybe one day, we can provide free Super Shifters to the masses, but unless one of us hits the lottery*, this won't happen soon. I still have a mortgage to pay, employees to keep happy, and three daughters to put through college. You all have been very supportive of AndyMark, and we appreciate it. We try to price things as fairly as we can, while still trying to prove that capitalism still works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor (Post 981029)
Maybe I'm way off base here, but I'm envisioning a larger-scale version of exactly what Bimba does.

On a side note, I'm willing to wager more teams use the kitbot chassis, trannies, and motors than one may realize. Even if they're not used during the build season.
Mike is smart too.

I think that you all deserve a cookie for figuring this out as well as you did.

Thank you for the discussion. Please continue.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

* - if I played the lottery, which I don't. Isn't that just a tax for people who aren't very good at math?

Taylor 17-11-2010 10:49
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Baker (Post 981100)
Mike is smart too.

I think that you all deserve a cookie for figuring this out as well as you did.

Aw, mine has a bite taken out of it. :D

Andy Baker 17-11-2010 11:42
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
As information is released and communication continues, more official answers will be posted on the FIRST Forums. We will be posting in both websites (CD and FIRST Forums), with more official stuff over on the FIRST Forums.

Going back to Adam's point above, I think it is important to get this information out in various ways. However, since AndyMark is the official supplier of this service, the official answers will be located on the FIRST Forums site.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

JohnBoucher 17-11-2010 12:31
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Baker (Post 981100)

(it's going to be in our upcoming newsletter)
Newsletter? Good for you.

For those that want to sign up. it's on the index page of andymark.com

mcf747 13-12-2010 05:44
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Maybe I am jumping the gun, but it is 12/13/2010 and I do not see it live yet?

Maybe it will go live at "start of business" (8am ?)

.....Bills Blog.......
12.13.10: FIRST Choice site opens for viewing only.
.....Bills Blog......

I will check back later,
Matthew

dag0620 13-12-2010 07:00
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Your not the only one. Since I got up I've been checking the site at 5:30 and still nothing. I kinda wish Bill gave us a launch time. Oh well! I've got Study Hall 2nd period to go check.

wilsonmw04 13-12-2010 07:36
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dag0620 (Post 985255)
Your not the only one. Since I got up I've been checking the site at 5:30 and still nothing. I kinda wish Bill gave us a launch time. Oh well! I've got Study Hall 2nd period to go check.

They probably will launch it without fanfare. I will keep thousands of energetic FIRST'ers from trying to bring their servers down ;-)

mcf747 13-12-2010 11:14
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Still nothing.......

8:15am pst

Matthew

IndySam 13-12-2010 11:32
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Has anyone been successful in logging in with their TIMS account info? I have tried with no luck

IceStorm 13-12-2010 11:38
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
I think I've managed to log in. At least when I go to my account I get an additional menu choice that comes up but there is nothing listed under it but the instructions.

Taylor 13-12-2010 11:59
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
"We're sorry, your account has been disabled for your security due to too many failed login attempts. Please contact customer service for assistance, or return after 24 hours and try again."

Ha.

rees2001 13-12-2010 12:06
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceStorm (Post 985292)
I think I've managed to log in. At least when I go to my account I get an additional menu choice that comes up but there is nothing listed under it but the instructions.
I get the same thing.

yarden.saa 13-12-2010 12:51
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
The same thing:mad:

Rosiebotboss 13-12-2010 14:06
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
I just logged into my AM acct. clicked on the 2011 FIRST Choice link and got the instruction .pdf, and that's it. No new links to products, yet. :confused:

AdamHeard 13-12-2010 14:17
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
It's telling me the email address is invalid.

mryeagle 13-12-2010 14:37
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
team 2229 is still having the same issue.
login to the andymark website doesnt show me any first choice option.

Greg Needel 13-12-2010 14:46
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 985319)
It's telling me the email address is invalid.
the email address is the main team contact's email address the pw is the one listed in tims

Mark McLeod 13-12-2010 14:52
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
My email address is also invalid and it's the one TIMS uses.

I think they're just not ready for us all yet.

AdamHeard 13-12-2010 14:56
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod (Post 985327)
My email address is also invalid and it's the one TIMS uses.

I think they're just not ready for us all yet.
I was using the TIMS password and not the password IN TIMS. That might be your issue too.

Madison 13-12-2010 14:58
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
It's up now. I can see pictures.

Chris is me 13-12-2010 15:02
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Can someone post the contents of FIRST Choice to this thread so those of us without the TIMS main contact account can view it?

Madison 13-12-2010 15:09
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Group 1 contains only one item --
FTC mini kit.
Kit Contents

* 2 - Motor Mount, W739089
* 1 - Motor Shaft Hub, W739079
* 2 - DC Motor, W739083
* 1 - Gear Hub Spacers, W739090
* 1 - Tetrix Resource Kit, W731900
* 1 - Battery Charger, W739059
* 1 - 12V NiMH Rechargable Batter, W739057
* 1 - Power Switch, W739129

Group 2 contains the following --

Grainger Tool Set
Kit Contents:

* Adjustable Wrench, 1" Jaw Capacity, 8" Length
* Bar Clamp, 12", 2.5" deep
* Curved Claw Hammer, Graphite, 20 oz
* Deburring Tool Kit
* Multi Bit, Quick Change Screwdriver
* Nut Driver, 7/16", 4" Shank, Plastic
* Nut Driver, 3/8", 3.3125" Shank, Plastic
* Plier, Locking, 7"
* Plier, Self Adjusting
* Screwdriver, Phillips, #2 x 4", Slip Resistant
* Screwdriver, Slot, 5/16" x 6", Slip Resistant
* Retractable Utility Knife, 6.5" Length

Fluke 115 Digital Multimeter

Gray Jaguar

16 cu. in. Clippard Storage Tank

2 MK Batteries (that are unused, but two years old.)

FESTO MAS-10-300N-AA-MC-O-ER Pneumatic Muscle

Solenoid Valve Kit
Kit Contents:

* 1 - Double Solenoid Valve - #566475
* 3 - Push/Pull Fittings - #183740
* 2 - E-Box Interface - #566716
* 2 - One Half Meter Solenoid Cable - #566654

Group 3 contains --

Ethernet Port Saver

1/4-28 x 36"L Threaded Rod

Bungee Cord Kit

Part Number: fc-010
Group Number: 3
Kit Contents

* Erickson Bungee Cord, 36", Multicolored Qty. 1
* Erickson Bungee Cord, 32" Qty. 2

Caster Kit
Kit Contents

* E.R. Wagner Caster, 3", Rigid Qty. 2
* E.R. Wagner Caster, 3", Swivel Qty. 2

CAN Cable Kit
Kit Contents

* 1-24" Cable
* 3-10" Cables

Norgren Relief Valve

Group 4 contains:

Staple Gun

Wire Connector Nut Kit
Kit Contents

* IDEAL Wire Connector Nut, #10 Ring Tongue, 25 Pack
* IDEAL Wire Connector Nut, #10 Ring Tongue, 25 Pack

HPE Automation Pressure Gauge

Pneumatic Fitting Kit
Kit Contents

* Union Tee, 5/PK, 1/4"
* Male Straight, 5/PK, 1/4" x 1/8" NPT
* Male Straight, 5/PK, 1/4" x 1/4" NPT
* Union Y, 5/PK, 1/4"
* Union Elbow, 5/PK, 1/4"

Sunshine 13-12-2010 15:11
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 985329)
I was using the TIMS password and not the password IN TIMS. That might be your issue too.
huh?

You mean the Q & A System Login password?

Now I am really confused.

I think my problem is that I am registered with them for purchases with same email but different password than the first one.

This should be easier.

AdamHeard 13-12-2010 15:14
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
I hope they add more things to group 1!

TD78 13-12-2010 15:22
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
[quote=Sunshine;985333]You mean the Q & A System Login password? [quote]

Yes, the Q&A password with the TIMS main contact email address will log you in.

anthonyttu 13-12-2010 15:28
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Is it just me that dosn't see any link or items for "First Choice" of any kind?

Vikesrock 13-12-2010 15:32
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyttu (Post 985337)
Is it just me that dosn't see any link or items for "First Choice" of any kind?
You have to log in using the email of your main contact in TIMS and the password found there (also the FIRST forums password) in order to see the FIRST Choice parts.

Madison posted a listing of the parts and groups above so you aren't missing out on much. FIRST Choice orders are not open until Jan. 10th.

Taylor 13-12-2010 15:35
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Kudos to Brant Bowen and the team at AndyMark for getting the bugs out and the site up. That was no small task, they got it done in half a day, and you know they (meaning AM as well as FIRST) were expecting major issues, hence the soft open nearly a month before kickoff.

rees2001 13-12-2010 16:38
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
For those having trouble gettin in, use the My Account link at the top. The team leader has to use their TIMS e-mail and password to get into TIMS.


As for the selection. Group 1 is limited but... not a bad move by FIRST. I can imagine the FRC kit frame fitting in this group. Just MY guess. Groups seem to decrease in value from 1 to 4. There are some nice things in there for teams trying to build a supply. And other nice things for teams that have stuff.

Chris is me 13-12-2010 17:10
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
I like that batteries and pneumatic fittings are available. My team has like 3 good batteries, so I can almost guarantee we'll be requesting some of those!

Greg Needel 13-12-2010 17:14
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 985350)
I like that batteries and pneumatic fittings are available. My team has like 3 good batteries, so I can almost guarantee we'll be requesting some of those!
did you see this on the battery info page "Important Note: These batteries are 2 years old and have never been used. Teams should choose these parts at their own risk."

Greg Needel 13-12-2010 17:25
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Another question I have is the motor included in the tetrix kit. Is the intention that this motor will now be FRC legal or are they trying to but tetrix parts in the hands of FRC teams in hopes that they will start FTC teams.

TEntwistle 13-12-2010 19:00
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Does anybody know if the parts in these groups will be "competition legal"? Specifically, the solenoid kit or the FESTO pneumatic muscle? It may be interesting to play with these items, but if we are paying postage, it would be nice to know if we are paying to experiment or if we can hope to use them in our design.

Vikesrock 13-12-2010 19:13
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Now that I have had a chance to review the items and groupings I think FIRST generally did a good job setting this up. I was surprised by two things however:

1. The Tetrix kit is far and away the most expensive item being offered. It includes over $350 worth of parts if assembled individually from the LEGO Education site. My guess is that neither the motor nor the battery will be FRC competition legal so this strikes me as a blatent attempt to piggyback on the FTC campaign FIRST has started with the FRC credit for creating new FTC teams.

2. Group 2 items appear to all be worth $75-$125, except for the Clippard tank which is under $30. While I understand that price isn't everything and that the whole point is to get parts in team's hands that they will use, this struck me as a bit odd.

R.C. 14-12-2010 02:40
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
BTW,

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...ome%20Page.pdf

You can view the Andymark page here.

-RC

Chris is me 14-12-2010 02:59
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikesrock (Post 985386)
1. The Tetrix kit is far and away the most expensive item being offered. It includes over $350 worth of parts if assembled individually from the LEGO Education site. My guess is that neither the motor nor the battery will be FRC competition legal so this strikes me as a blatent attempt to piggyback on the FTC campaign FIRST has started with the FRC credit for creating new FTC teams.
I thought that too. Not sure how I feel about that. On one hand, it's promoting an alternate to FRC that a lot of teams may wish to consider, but it also seems kind of anticompetitive.

Here's hoping it turns out you can use FTC motors in FRC and there's actually a reason you'd want to do so.

mcf747 14-12-2010 03:12
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Anyone want to start guessing on quantity available for each item?

Or better yet Andy do you want to post some official numbers?....if you can

Matthew

Sunshine 14-12-2010 09:50
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
A big thank you to Brant Bowen for helping me set this up.

I had an account set up previously and my browser kept using those passwords. He had to change my password settings to mirror first.

AdamHeard 14-12-2010 11:06
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 985475)
I thought that too. Not sure how I feel about that. On one hand, it's promoting an alternate to FRC that a lot of teams may wish to consider, but it also seems kind of anticompetitive.

Here's hoping it turns out you can use FTC motors in FRC and there's actually a reason you'd want to do so.
Eh, that's pretty unlikely as the motors really aren't all that powerful. Few teams would use them.

Jared Russell 14-12-2010 21:39
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
The pneumatic artificial muscles in group 2 are very interesting - I have never seen them used in FRC before.

rcmolloy 14-12-2010 21:53
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared341 (Post 985671)
The pneumatic artificial muscles in group 2 are very interesting - I have never seen them used in FRC before.
Hmm Jared, I'm perplexed as to how they would be used. There are uses for the expanding and contracting but how would implementation into FRC play a factor. I can probably guarantee that one of these may possibly be in the KOP.

Alan Anderson 15-12-2010 10:03
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmolloy (Post 985675)
I can probably guarantee that one of these may possibly be in the KOP.
Nice qualifiers you have there.

If it were in the regular Kit of Parts, it wouldn't be offered through FIRST Choice.

rsisk 15-12-2010 10:19
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Anderson (Post 985724)
Nice qualifiers you have there.

If it were in the regular Kit of Parts, it wouldn't be offered through FIRST Choice.
Huh? Isn't a Jaguar most likely going to be in the KOP? Or is there something different about the Jag on FIRST Choice? Just trying to get my mind around that one ::safety::

BrianT103 15-12-2010 10:46
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmolloy (Post 985675)
Hmm Jared, I'm perplexed as to how they would be used. There are uses for the expanding and contracting but how would implementation into FRC play a factor. I can probably guarantee that one of these may possibly be in the KOP.
Here's a video that demonstrates some of the abilities that PAMs offer. It's impossible to tell at this point whether or not they will be relevant to this year's game but regardless they are pretty neat. I think PAMs will be similar to the suction cups FIRST gave us in the KoP in 2007. While neat and somewhat useful, they will probably not be the best or most elegant solution to this year's game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApR1rHkH_uE

rcmolloy 15-12-2010 11:41
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Anderson (Post 985724)
Nice qualifiers you have there.

If it were in the regular Kit of Parts, it wouldn't be offered through FIRST Choice.
Should I switch my major from engineering to english? Haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianT103 (Post 985730)
Here's a video that demonstrates some of the abilities that PAMs offer. It's impossible to tell at this point whether or not they will be relevant to this year's game but regardless they are pretty neat. I think PAMs will be similar to the suction cups FIRST gave us in the KoP in 2007. While neat and somewhat useful, they will probably not be the best or most elegant solution to this year's game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApR1rHkH_uE
I did not see that video when I was searching for implementation on Youtube. After watching, I could assume that they could be used for manupilation arms like the example showed. Who knows yet though. We will have to find out in 24 days.

IndySam 15-12-2010 11:52
Re: [BB]: FIRST Choice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmolloy (Post 985740)
I did not see that video when I was searching for implementation on Youtube. After watching, I could assume that they could be used for manupilation arms like the example showed. Who knows yet though? We will have to find out in 24 days.
I want one just to play with it.


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