For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

I hope it is okay to mention this here. Please forgive my faux paus if it is not.

To help raise funds for our team this year, we are selling an extra FRC cRIO controller and accompanying cRIO modules. We have listed it for sale on eBay. The starting bid is $600, which is $150 less than the $750 it costs for an FRC team to purchase this same cRIO package directly from National Instruments.

Last year was our FRC team's rookie year, and this was the cRIO that we used in our "benchtop robot" that we used for training our software team members on the control system last fall, before we received the cRIO in our Rookie Kit-of-Parts.

We need to raise additional money for our team this year, so we are selling our extra cRIO and the accompanying modules. They are in mint condition. Since they have only been used for a few months on our "benchtop robot," they have never been installed on a moving robot, have never been jostled around, etc.

This cRIO would be excellent for a new rookie FRC team that wants to jump right into learning about the FRC programming and control system before the Kick-Off in January, or for a second "testing" robot for your veteran FRC team so that your software team can make progress while your hardware team is working, or in case you want to keep last year's FRC robot intact for demonstration purposes, etc.

Good luck teams, and we are looking forward to the upcoming 2011 season!

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Did you purchase the cRIO at the FRC discounted price? If so, are you allowed to re-sell it to a non-FRC third party? i.e., are there no such restrictions associated with the reduced-FRC-price purchase agreement?

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

I will definitely be looking into this for team 3467! :)

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

You raise a good point. Yes indeed, we purchased the cRIO at the FRC discounted price of $750 last year. Bill, the Director of FRC, has asked teams only to sell FRC discounted parts to FRC teams, because vendors have given FRC special pricing (or donated parts) and we don't want to cut into the business of those vendors. We totally agree, and we fully intend to respect and comply with that request. First of all, the cRIO is specifically intended for FRC, it has the FIRST logo on it, the part number on the back is "CRIO-FRC," the label on the back says "FOR USE ONLY IN THE FIRST ROBOTICS COMPETITION" (and we include that photo in the eBay listing), and the FPGA comes programmed with the latest V20 cRIO image.

Also, we say in the eBay listing: "Please note that we intend for this cRIO to only be purchased by another FIRST Robotics team. It was sold by National Instruments specifically only for use with FIRST Robotics, it carries the FIRST logo, and the FPGA has been programmed with the latest FRC cRIO image, and it specifically includes all the cRIO modules that come with the Kit of Parts for for FIRST Robotics teams. It should not be purchased for general-purpose industrial use. It is a cRIO for FIRST Robotics."

We will do our darndest to make sure this only goes to another FRC team. We will ask the buyer what FRC team they are part of, and check them out before selling it. We think it's great that National Instruments (and all the other vendors) are so generous with their pricing and donations to FRC, and we want to support them and respect that. Our purpose in selling this is to raise a little additional funds for our team. Also, it might help out another team that would like to buy another cRIO but would like to save a few bucks. The reason we listed it for sale on eBay, rather than listing it for sale at a fixed price here on Chief Delphi, is that we don't know what price to ask for it, and we want to bring in a fair price to help out our team financially this year.

Thanks very much for your note. I meant to mention the above caveats and intentions in my original posting.

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Thanks. It sounds like you're making every effort. I agree, these vendors who support FRC are very generous and we need to respect their wishes.

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

It looks interesting... I'll definitely mention it to our software & mechanical team folks.

Thanks for letting us know,

Trying to Help

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Hello...

Team 1610 is also looking for a extra C-rio As we've been needing one to practice with (not to mention having a spare) so we don't have to keep
taking the one we have out of our current robot. I'll let our team leader
know about this.

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Unless the controller and modules do not function for non FRC purposes and do not have a value on the open market higher than the discounted price available to FRC team (neither are consistent with my understanding), it seems this ebay listing is very likely going to result in a non-FRC purchase.

Personally, posting on the CD-swap seems like a reasonable idea to me too. Teams are always looking for extra controllers http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=87765

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Randy, I wish to point out that one of our cRIOs was purchased at the full price of $1500. I choose to say that this is that cRIO. Although forum members are being generous in understanding both the sale and the posting, there would be no conflict to selling our full price unit.

Regards,
Coach Chris
Team Flashpoint:)

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

I want to apologize for any error we made in listing our extra FRC cRIO for sale on eBay. We totally did not intend to do anything wrong, and we really appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions on this issue.

I think the suggestion to instead list extra FRC parts on CD-Swap here on Chief Delphi is excellent. That makes a lot of sense. We did not know about CD-Swap when I posted the eBay listing for the cRIO last night. My sincere apologies for that.

There are already 4 bids on the cRIO on eBay at this point, so I don't feel like it's fair to those FRC team bidders for us to remove the cRIO from eBay at this point. However, I think it's a good lesson for us, and everyone, going forward, to use CD-Swap instead.

And, I also want to reiterate my promise, earlier in this thread, that we will make certain that the cRIO only goes to another FRC team. Whoever wins the cRIO, we will carefully vet the buyer and make sure they are really part of another FRC team. As I mention earlier in this thread, we are deeply grateful for the FRC vendors who provide special pricing and donations to the FRC Kit of Parts. We totally agree with Bill Miller, Director of FRC, who has asked all FRC teams to make sure they only sell their spare parts to other FRC teams, to respect the FRC vendors and make sure not to undercut the non-FRC business of those vendors. That has been our intent from the beginning in the sale of this extra FRC cRIO that we have. We just didn't find the ideal way to go about it, and for that we are very sorry.

We think it's great that National Instruments (and all the other vendors) are so generous with their pricing and donations to FRC, and we want to support them and respect that. Our purpose in selling this is to raise a little additional funds for our team. Also, it might help out another team that would like to buy another cRIO but would like to save a few bucks. The reason we thought of listing it for sale on eBay, rather than listing it for sale at a fixed price here on Chief Delphi, is that we don't know what price to ask for it, and we want to bring in a fair price to help out our team financially this year.

But I see now that CD-Swap exists on Chief Delphi, and that it is a better vehicle than eBay for selling spare FRC parts, because it helps ensure that only FRC teams will buy those parts. That makes a lot of sense to us.

By the way, in both our original eBay listing, and in the question response we just now posted for that item on eBay, we made it clear that we will make sure that the cRIO only goes to an actual FRC team, and that we will not sell it to anyone outside of FRC. If the winning bidder is not an FRC team, we will cancel the sale to the high bidder, and instead go to the highest bidder that is a legitimate FRC team, whom we carefully vet.

I hope the Chief Delphi community, and the wider FRC community, can forgive our faux paus in listing this cRIO for sale on eBay. We totally didn't understand that it might be a problem. We thought carefully about it, and thought it would be sufficient that we ensure that the winner is indeed another FRC team (and include that caveat in the listing). But we see now that CD-Swap is the way to go if we sell any other FRC parts.

Mea culpa. Thanks again to the folks here on the thread for pointing out the correct way going forward to handle the sale of spare FRC parts (using CD-Swap), and we promise that we will only let the cRIO on eBay go to another legitimate FRC team, after checking out the winning bidder carefully.

Thank you for your understanding!

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

I too am interested in a control system so we build a training platform to use with rookie teams (only 17 in our state this year!).

However, there this one discussion point that has not been covered in this thread. With the seller being on a sophomore team I think it is very important to point out that the control system is only included in the ROOKIE KoP! If you are expecting to receive another in the kitthis year, it will not happen. If you sell this control system you will need to gut the old robot to have a controller this year.

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Lee, you raise a very good point. Yes indeed, you are correct that as a sophomore team, we won't receive another cRIO in our Kit of Parts this year, of course.

Actually, the cRIO we are selling is our third cRIO. When we were a rookie team last year, we bought two cRIOs before the Kick-Off (one for $750 and one for $1500), so that we could have one in a "benchtop robot" used for simple software training, and a second in a "placebo bot" that our mechanical team used just to learn how to build any robot at all (we didn't know what the challenge would be at that point, of course.)

Then, we received our third cRIO in the Rookie Kit of Parts (as expected). This meant we now have a total of three cRIOs, which is more than we need. We are selling the mint-condition cRIO that was in our "benchtop robot" that was never used in a moving robot. We are keeping our other two cRIOs, one which I think we will keep in last year's robot so the software team has a functioning robot to try out new techniques both before and during the season, and the other for the mechanical team to use in trying out some new technologies before the season and to use in our competition robot once the season begins.

After Kick-Off, we will of course start over in writing our software and building hardware for this year, per the rules and spirit of FRC, but we will have had some good training time again to get our team all up-to-speed so we can hit the ground running at Kick-Off. I suspect we will try and keep last year's robot running even after Kick-Off, for software testing purposes, and to demonstrate last year's robot to sponsors, friends, and at community events, while work proceeds on this year's competition robot.

Thanks for pointing out the usefulness of us keeping two cRIOs, though, much appreciated. We very much agree!

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

I believe the $1500 price is still the academic price. The cRIO-9074 goes for $2700 normally.

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Randy
I bid for my team on this... so you can be assured that it will go to an FRC team if we end up with it... (templar52 is my ebay addy)

We are actually going to use it for a trainer for other teams if we get it.

I will continue to watch it...

thanks
Robert (Team 1983 Skunkworks Robotics)

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

I'm confused, ebay just said the auction ended. It was marked as a 10 day auction starting on the 4th, it should have run until the 14.

Did you pull the item?

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Hello, Foster. Thanks so much for your note. I was just about to post a message here about that. A few minutes ago, I ended the eBay auction early for our extra cRIO because the bidding had reached $780, and all FRC teams can purchase a new cRIO and modules once per year at the discounted price of $750. We didn't want to be unfair to any teams who didn't realize they could purchase a new one cheaper.

By the way, for any teams that would like to purchase a new cRIO and modules at the FRC discounted price of $750 once per year, go to the National Instruments FIRST page and see the note in the middle of the page that says, "Once per competition season, your team is eligible for an entire additional cRIO-FRC kit (part number 780405-01) at the discount price of $750. Call 1-866-511-6285 to check eligibility!".

As I mentioned a couple of times earlier in this thread, we will make sure to only sell this cRIO to another FRC team, because all of us get special pricing on parts as FRC teams, and we want to be supportive of the generous FRC sponsors that provide parts at discounted or even donated pricing to FIRST. (And also, Bill Miller, Director of FRC, has previously reminded all of us on Bill's Blog that if we sell specially priced FRC parts, we should only sell them to other FRC teams, for this same reason.)

So, we have sent a message to the winning bidder of our cRIO on eBay to find out who they are and what FRC team they are on, so we can carefully check them out to make sure they are really an FRC team. If they aren't, no harm done, we will point out that the eBay description says we can only sell to other FRC teams, in which case we will walk down the eBay bidding list and offer it to the next lower bidders until we find a bidder that: (1) is definitely an FRC team, and (2) would still like to buy the cRIO. In any case, we won't charge the FRC team more than $740, since they can buy a new one (per above) for $750.

Thanks so much for the interest in our extra cRIO. This will really help us, as we need to raise some more money this year. I apologize for the faux paus of listing on eBay (with a big note in both the eBay listing and the Q&A at the end of the listing saying this is only for FRC teams ) rather than listing on the CD-Swap section right here on Chief Delphi (I didn't know about CD-Swap -- my apologies!). I will definitely use CD-Swap if we have more items to sell, to easily ensure that such parts only go to other FRC teams. Thanks so much for everyone's understanding. Have a great 2011 season!

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

What was the point of putting this up on ebay if you wanted only FRC teams to bid on it? You will have to pay a pretty penny for fees associated with ebay for a price that high and such.

why not just try to sell it through here and skip the fees?

I know it's to help fund raise, but you lost some money from putting it up on ebay.

I used to do a lot of selling and buying on ebay, I got tired of all the fees and such with it.

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Wow, this thread has gotten a lot of replies! :) As I mentioned a few times earlier in this thread, I goofed when I listed our cRIO for sale on eBay for FRC teams only. I didn't realize that Chief Delphi had a CD-Swap area specifically for this purpose. I will definitely use CD-Swap in the future, if we have other things to sell. My sincere apologies for any confusion, and for inadvertently taking up so much off this board's "mindspace" with this issue.

I think I'll leave the issue here, so I don't keep cluttering the Chief Delphi board with this. Thanks so much to everyone for your replies and understanding, and hope to see you at the competitions in 2011!

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

A team may have already used their cRIO purchase credit this year and wanted another one cheaper then the $1500 academic price.

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Ending the auction early was a generous thing to do, but unnecessary in my opinion. If an FRC team decided to pay more than $750, who are we to say they cannot? Anyone familiar with eBay knows that the eBay final value fee on $780 is $50. Add the PayPal fees, and you're slightly underwater.

Randy, as I've mentioned privately, you approached this in a transparent and above-board way. You never meant to deceive, and I will speculate that even NI would approve of how you handled this. Sure, there might have been a 'better' way, but ain't that the case always?

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Don: Thanks so much for the kind words!

Some notes to summarize and close up this thread, including a few things I learned along the way:

1. Each FRC team can buy a new FRC cRIO for $750 in every calendar year, where the calendar year boundary is January 1. I called National Instruments today and confirmed this. The nice woman at NI explicitly told me that if your team has not purchased a $750 cRIO since January 1, 2010, you can buy a $750 cRIO this month (December) AND buy ANOTHER $750 cRIO next month (January), because next month is 2011. Or, if you already bought a cRIO in 2010, and you need another one, you can wait just 3 weeks from now and buy it for $750 starting January 1. (If you have already purchased a $750 cRIO during a given calendar year, and you would like to buy another one in the same calendar year, you pay the academic pricing of $1500 for the second one.)

There was a little confusion on this point, because some folks (like me) weren't certain when the year boundary occurs for the $750 annual cRIO deal, so I wanted to let you know what I found out.

To order an FRC cRIO at the special pricing, and to verify your eligibility, call the National Instruments FRC hotline at 866-511-6285. This information is documented on the National Instruments FRC page, in the middle of the page under "Resources for FIRST Competitors," and you can also get more details by giving them a call.

2. If you have spare FRC parts for sale, the best place to sell them is right here on Chief Delphi in the CD-Swap area. It's not so good to sell your FRC parts on eBay, as I have discovered. Bill Miller, Director of FRC, reminded all of us in Bill's Blog a while back that we should only sell FRC parts to other FRC teams, not to the general public, because FRC vendors very generously give deep discounts (and donations) of their products to FIRST, and we don't want to undercut their normal business. By selling FRC parts here in the CD-Swap area, you know that you are selling to another FRC team. If you sell them on eBay, it is harder to verify that the buyer is really in FRC. Plus, of course, Chief Delphi is seen daily by more FRC teams than any other place on the planet, so this is a great place to sell your spare FRC parts.

3. The final round-up on the FRC cRIO our team was selling on eBay: The bidding went up to $780, at which point I closed the auction to further bidding because (as I mentioned earlier on this thread) I didn't want to take advantage of teams who didn't realize they could buy a new cRIO every calendar year from NI for $750 (see above). It turned out that there were two teams interested in our cRIO that had already used their $750 cRIO purchase opportunity in 2010, and they were hoping to do so again in 2011. So, both teams were willing to go above the $750 price point on eBay (rather than pay the $1500 academic pricing for a second cRIO in one calendar year), so there was some disappointment when I cut off the bidding when it crossed the $750 boundary. With 20-20 hindsight, I could have handled the situation differently, but I had already announced on this forum that I wouldn't let the pricing get above $750. The integrity of our team's reputation, and not taking advantage of other teams, is very important to me. So, I cut off the bidding, as promised.

The winning bidder at the time we closed the bidding on our cRIO on eBay was Team 2614 MARS from Morgantown, WV. When they found out that the second-highest bidding team was very interested in the cRIO, Team 2614 very nicely bowed out and will instead buy a $750 from NI in a few weeks (after January 1). Thus, we sold our cRIO to the second-highest bidder who was Bob Steele, head coach of Team 1983 Skunkworks Robotics in Des Moines, WA. (Bob is a member here at Chief Delphi and left a note earlier on this thread.) Per my note earlier on this thread, I offered to sell the cRIO to Bob for $740, since it is used, even though Bob had bid $770. However, Bob's team has already used their $750 cRIO opportunity for this year, and they want to buy yet another one for $750 next year, so Bob offered to pay the full $770 he had bid. We compromised and agreed to lower Bob's payment to $750, and I picked up the shipping cost. Team 1983 is planning to use the cRIO to build a special FRC electronics board in a commercial suitcase that they can lend to many of the 25 (!) rookie teams in Washington State this year to help them get started, which is an awesome thing to do. So the cRIO went to another FRC team at a fair price and a good cause.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks so much to everyone for their comments and assistance along the way. I learned some things, and hopefully our experience will help other teams that have spare FRC parts to sell.

Take care, and have an awesome 2011 FRC season!

Re: For Sale: Mint Condition FRC cRIO controller
 

Closing this per the OP's request.