Re: Shifting or Non-Shifting
 

All of the merits of pneumatics being said, some teams did use a leadscrew and Window motor to shift gearboxes last year. Almost all of those shifters were used to release kickers with >200 lbs of stored energy, though. Pneumatics are definitely okay for shifting.

Re: Shifting or Non-Shifting
 

Word of caution.

We used 36v Dewalt Transmissions during 2009 and at the start of 2010. We had been failing the 18v Dewalt components regularly during the 2008 season.

Suffice to say the 36v Dewalt components did not survive long. We switched to supershifters before our first tournament last year...and I don't see us going back to the Dewalt setup.

All told, without lightening, the Supershifters were only a marginal weight penalty.

Re: Shifting or Non-Shifting
 

We have always use the Andy Mark super shifters. They have work great for us.

Re: Shifting or Non-Shifting
 

But certainly much easier to work with, and despite not having ever ran dewalts, much more durable.

Re: Shifting or Non-Shifting
 

Well, define big gearbox. The toughbox can easily provide over 200 lb's of force in it's basic setup, and all of the benefits of pneumatics can be just as easily accomplished with a small rack, screw, or the like.

Re: Shifting or Non-Shifting
 

If you're trying to shift, the toughbox is a big gearbox to use to generate that sort of motion.

The original post you're responding to: "How many motors in the kit can move 180 lbs without a big gearbox?"
Your answer: the "toughbox".

The toughbox is a gearbox, and therefore only as good as the motors you put into it. The question still stands unanswered.

If I was to shift using a motor, I'd use a Denso with a linkage system. Plant Denso between the gearboxes; power on one way to shift one way, power on the other way to shift the other way. If you saw 330's wedges in 2005, those were powered by Densos (or their predecessors) on Spikes, IIRC. They also went from vertical to wedging in about half a second with no linkages. By playing with the linkage size, you could make a Denso faster if you wanted to.

Re: Shifting or Non-Shifting
 

We generally avoid using pneumatics for high loads due to air capacity, but to say that pneumatics don't have any advantages over electrical systems is not true.

Pneumatics are great for holding things with a (near) constant force and being able to simultaneous handle shock loads that a geared system could have trouble with. They're also nice for grabbers and the like as there is no feedback required, you tell them to go and (assuming nothing breaks) they go. To achieve similar point to point movement with an electrical system you'd need some sort of sensor, or a very talented (and overworked) driver.

Re: Shifting or Non-Shifting
 

Use a toughbox and there goes a big part of your weight advantage and stall that with anything other than a CIM and magic smoke will appear.

I have no problems with teams preferring to use motors over pneumatics but if you are going to make blanket statements like "low efficiency and power output" you're gonna get called on it.

Re: Shifting or Non-Shifting
 

Oh man. The, [SARCASM]"Fun,"[/SARCASM] we have had with magic smoke!