Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

I agree! Great emoticon!

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Not a propper use of the phrase.

""flog (or beat) a dead horse. Though he supported the measure, British politician and orator John Bright thought the Reform Bill of 1867, which called for more democratic representation, would never be passed by Parliament. Trying to rouse Parliament from its apathy on the issue, he said in a speech, would be like trying to 'flog a dead horse' to make it pull a load. This is the first recorded use of the expression, which is still common for 'trying to revive interest in an apparently hopeless issue.' Bright's silver tongue is also responsible for 'England is the mother of Parliament,' and 'Force is not a remedy,' among other memorable quotations. He was wrong about the Reform Bill of 1867, however. Parliament 'carried' it, as the British say." From the "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997."

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

agreed.. that just made my day.. thank you

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...er/Custom1.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...er/Custom2.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...er/Custom3.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...er/Custom4.png

Or maybe that's what they want us to think! The hint is exactly what we are saying, it's just that even if we figure out what the hint really is, it isn't the right encryption code for the PDF or the elaborate design of the FIRST game. Hints are fairly useless even if we do figure it out.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

good design tetraman ::ouch::

and i forget who came up with the idea but kudos to them as well. Would definitely be an interesting and exciting game! ::rtm::

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

NEW IDEA! hahaha

This came from the concept of holding the column.

Rules: Robots are allowed to touch the colored zones and yellow "danger zone" of the field. If a robot touches the gray "Dead Zone" then the robot's signal is cut off for 10 seconds. (similar to how robots would be disconnected in Triple Play once the human player stepped off the pad.)

Not sure about what the robots would do yet. It's just the start of the idea.

Putting pics in links to help keep the clutter off the posts.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...JungleGym1.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...JungleGym2.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...JungleGym3.png
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...JungleGym4.png

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Does it matter? I just spent multiple minutes laughing at it; I think it's good enough :p

Hint #1 Details
 

The photo is of Little Eva Narcis, she released two albums in 1962 and 1989, they were "The Loco-Motion" and "Back on Tracks".

I assume some kind of train or railroad connection from this. :confused:



Also the photo is the reverse of the cover to her 2001 "Llll-Little Eva!: The Complete Dimension Recordings".

Reversed image could just be a way to make identifying the picture harder, or it could mean a reversing of something in the game.



Personally I think it is just the first one (the design board trying to make identifying the picture harder), but wouldn't put it past FIRST to try something like that in their design. :mad:

Re: Hint #1 Details
 

Wow thanks, who would of figured!

Re: Hint #1 Details
 

We REALLY need that dead horse icon.

Re: Hint #1 Details
 

Before anyone posts on this thread please at least read the first couple pages. There's a lot of information and discussion that has already taken place.

Re: Hint #1 Details
 

Hmmmmmmmm...

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Maybe we should include the horse in every even-numbered post?

Little Eva? Locomotion? How come we haven't heard of that before now? :rolleyes:

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

So here is what we've got after a full day of brainstorming.

To start, the obvious.
In 1962 Loco-Motion was released. So the game involves track, or trains. The concept of E.V.A. may or may not be a factor. Also, something in the game is going to be mirrored, because the image FIRST used is flipped.

Now for our takes on this.
Maybe there is a multi-level playing field. Which includes stationary robots with moving arms, and a moving goal on the upper level track. Robots must place game piece in the moving goal on the track.

Or, maybe connecting to your alliance for part of the game. Your alliance picks up pieces together.

Or, maybe to go with the mirror theory, reversing goals randomly throughout the game, using alternating red and blue LED lights. (Note: LED lights were invented in 1962...)This would result in a game of high scoring.

Or, also with the mirror theory, maybe the drivers are divided from the playing field by one way mirrors, so they can see the field, but cannot be seen. Also, the human players would somehow correspond.

Or, to explain the column, and Greek background of Eva's middle name, maybe there is a multi-level playing field in which the robots can hook on to a monorail type system held up by columns.

And lastly, think about where a lot of our game equipment comes from. Walmart. Yes, Walmart taking over FIRST. See, Walmart first opened in 1962 as well. Maybe the game has to do with a 3 part alliance as usual. One robot picks up game pieces, placing them on the next robot to travel on a track, to the third robot that places them on a shelf.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Wait, your team spent a full day brainstorming the game hint?

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Well, my "team" meaning me and another team member.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Only one full day of brainstorming on the hint? Boy are they behind... This thread's been busy for a week!

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Other members of the team have known of the hint, and haven't really looked into it much.
We just figured, is there a better way to ring in the New Year than having a random brainstorm?

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Happy New Year XD
7 Days Till Kickoff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Maybe, but its still fun to think about it and try to figure it out.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Exactly, Which is why we do it.
Maybe there will be a hint #2...

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

I got to say, I look forward to having game hints and kickoff as much as I do Christmas

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Cant wait to whip out "Twas the night before Kickoff"...

i seriously need sleep...lmao

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

lol i love kickoff and hints <3

oh.. and the night before kickoff.. please do :p

btw love the signature.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Theres no time for sleep. We've got games to think of and robots to design soon lol. 3am build nights are always the best.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Most definitely. :cool:

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

... just to throw something else out there: what if it is as simple as saying that we will be returning to robots with arms and extending outside the frame perimeter? She is extending her arms in the picture and the reversing of the image could mean reversing what has been done recently. AKA: going back to how it was before 2009: robot extensions and not having a 'no leaving the frame perimeter' rule. (I count last year as a 'no leaving the frame' year, even though technically you could for a 3 second time period or less and in the last 20 seconds) I always liked games with robots manipulating a game piece with an arm or the sort.. [ specifically, 2005 and 2007 were my favorites :) ]

Happy new year to all teams and good luck this season!
-Matt G

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

This very well could be. I really think we will be allowed to extend out of the frame perimeter, but I would not call it undoing what was done. The GDC created those rules to make the games more challenging (and various other reasons), not to change the course of all future games.

I really hope that we will be able to extend out of the frame perimeter. I am tired of robots looking more or less the same. I loved it when I walked through the pits and did not see one robot that resembled another. That is what FIRST is about. Coming up with your own unique designs! :)

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Though this is usually not how the picture hints have played out in the past, I think it seems to make as much sense as anything else. In the past, it has almost always been the large pick-and-place arms that made for the most unique and memorable robots.

2011: Return of the super arms!

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

2007 & 2008. Ahhhhhhhh, the good 'ol days :D

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Most definitely!

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

2007 was the last entirely complete game. Fun to play, fun to build for, fun to watch, fun to just walk through the pits and look and look and look at all the robots. Autonomous was fun to watch, tele-op was an intense version of checkers, and the finale, IMHO, has been the best to watch and be a part of as a team/drive member. And for the non-team-member, watching that game was very easy to comprehend. That game was truly red vs blue, 3 vs 3 no 6/5/4 vs 0. Thats what sets 2007 a part from 2010.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

but will the robots that drastically change orientation at the start of matches (such as 71 in 2002 of swampthing in 2003) ever return? I want to see more of them.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Under the bumper rules... It's difficult. 16 pulled it off in 2008 somehow, but the bumper rules were different--I think it was something like X% of the frame covered, or something like that.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

I think the only part we should get from this clue is that there will be some type of reverse play in the game? -- due to the picture being reversed. Yes, they could have chosen any picture being reversed then....however i think they picked this one to play with our minds a bit because of her songs/albums and how their names refer to many options to this years game.
They did this just to play with our minds/build hype..

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

She looks like a mo-town singer, this could be an album cover. Finding her and the song could be part of the clue.

Or it could be a pole to climb or simply an obstacle in the game...

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Please read the first 3-5 pages of the thread...

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

That seems like an interesting way to look at it.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Well, my team found that the singer's Little Eva, who has the hit "Loco-Motion". Could that mean anything?



Just kidding, don't worry.

If the reversed image and title "Loco-Motion" were to mean anything, wouldn't it mean PUSHING, not pulling, because trains pull, and you're reversing it?

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

First, you need to go here.
Second, I think you're reading too much into the clue.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Now i've never been big on strange things happening for certain reasons but this seems just a little suspicious.

The harmelen train disaster:

"It was shortly before twenty past nine in the morning of Monday January 8, 1962 when a train bound for Amsterdam was snaking through the junction. Consisting of two electric multiple units it was moving at about 45 mph. The manouvre was protected from oncoming train by a red signal on the approach to the junction from the Utrecht direction.

A Utrecht to Rotterdam express train, headed by an electric locomotive, No. 1137 and travelling at about 60 mph was approaching the junction. Perhaps because of the foggy conditions, the driver missed a yellow light warning that the next signal was at red. It must have been at the last moment that he saw the danger signal. The driver applied the brakes but there was nothing more that he could do. Collision was inevitable."

Now i find it strange that the LED was also invented in 1962 and the little eva narcis song loco-motion came out in 1962

My thought we have a course that does indeed involve trains and i beleive mirrors will be a big part while using LED's. Maybe there is a part of the field that is hidden and we must use lights and mirrors to get there?

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

New Idea

Highest ring is 10' up, the second ring is 7' up. The circle step is just a simple 2".

Just brainstorming on the idea of the column. So I thought something Colosseum-like.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

its a interesting idea.. but what would the game be with a design like this? im curious ::rtm::

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Not sure. I have been brainstorming, just that. Maybe you have to hang PVC hooks, like candy canes, on the bars...or something. Not really sure yet.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

No, clearly they have to get balls from the center into the opponent's color zone. But they can't touch the middle circle. HAVE FUN.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Let's be rational for a moment here:

Thinking back to Overdrive and the game hints: Remember the GPS coordinates? A bronze statue of a tortoise and a hare, in Boston's Copley Square. "It is a race"

Or Lunacy and the "Moon Fish"

Now we have a picture of Little Eva. Her *very* famous song is Locomotion.

My point is that the clues in the past have been very upfront, basic and plain. Overt is the word, I think. So reading all these conspiracies and double (or triple) meanings into it (Covert) - I don't think so.

"Locomotion". That's the whole clue. Nuthin' else in there, sorry. Probably the game's name. We'll see who's right in 6 days.

Craziness may resume now.:p

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

It's Little Eva, A singer in the 1960's. Her most famous song was "Loco-Motion". Something tells me we're gonna have to build with high torque this year with a low center of gravity. Maybe this game has something to do with trains?

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

This is the hint that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people start guessing not knowing what it was, and they'll continue to guess forever just because...This is the hint that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend.

Jane

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

This might end if a second hint comes out! Or even a red herring! ;)

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

while(1) { guess(); while(1) { repeat_previous_guesses(); if(dead_horse.posted()) break; } }

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

In musical terms - a round.

Robert, I think there have been some red herrings but I'm not really good with them or with hints so...

A 2nd hint would do nicely - maybe.

Jane

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

well it looks like we expect the same thing when the manual come out. how many will RTFM.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Does anyone find it interesting that the Harmelen train disaster happened the same year the song loco-motion came out and it happend on exactly the same day as kick-off and it has to deal with trains

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

This: ::rtm:: beats a dead horse - anytime.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

That would be a fun field. But I'd make the 'circle' 8" off the ground or so, and a slick surface.

I nominate thee for the GDC.... ;)

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

it has been brought up a few pages back.. but yet again.. its a interesting thought

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

What if this year it takes place on a railroad track? that would be real interesting for drive trains

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

I wonder if Dean Kamen's 60th birthday this year has something to do with this years game

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

I had mentioned the LED's awhile back. Mainly, I see them being used to reverse goals.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

AAARrrgggghhhHH! We never learned from previous years!

Last years hint was completely useless!

Its all part of FIRST's plan to keep us up all night till the competition ends!!

We will all be tired and stuff durring the season if we spend too much time on this.

Or, we might be correct and it has something to do with trains.

whatevez

*falls asleep*

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Haven't experienced one of these yet, but theirs always this year. 47 days till "crunch time". 51 days till ship day.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

i'm not sure if anyone posted this yet and i am definitely not reading 50 pages of posts, but I think the woman in the picture looks a lot like Dr. Mae Jemison. A.K.A. the first African American Woman in space, or something to that effect.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

It would take reading a grand total of three pages for you to not look like a fool.

:)

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Uhh...not quite. It's Little Eva's album art, but mirrored.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

whoa my bad, just a little late on finding the hint and got a bit overwhelmed by the 50 pages. and i do know just as well as the next guy that these hints are just superfluous information meant to throw us through loops.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Hello everyone,
You can't see this right now, but I am on my knees begging you, the readers and posters of Chief Delphi.
Please, skim the first five pages of this thread before you post. For that matter, read through any thread before you post in it. It helps keep us from running through the same ideas and dead ends twenty times.
Thank you all.

P.S.- Little Eva. She sang the Loco-motion. The picture is a reversed image of one of her album covers. Now anyone who starts reading here will know it.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

My guess is that Loco-motion is just the game's name and it has little or nothing to do with trains.
The mirroring of the image may have some significance - the game might have something to do with reversing or mirroring. Or maybe they just did it to make it harder when you do a reverse image search. I dunno.

Edit: Actually, the record company's name might be important. It's called Dimension recordings. oOOoo.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

i wouldnt chalk the mirroring up to anything more than that it was meant to trip up reverse image searches... but i like what you're thinkin that it's only the name of the game but then again who knows?:confused:

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

756 posts on a game hint. I never recall, in my 10 years here on CD, there being 756 posts in a community service project thread ... just sayin' ... carry on ...

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

That is pretty impressive. :cool:

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

The game names usually do have some link to the game itself. I don't know what Breakaway had to do with soccer (I'm sure someone else can make the link), but Lunacy was a lunar game, Overdrive was NASCAR-style (driving), Rack 'n' Roll involved a rack (the spider), and Aim High involved shooting balls into high hoops.

But I am kind of curious...if you were to name the game Locomotion, what would the basic theme of the game be if it didn't have much to do with trains?

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Those threads are not typically 75% this:

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Last year some enterprising and knowledgeable detectives used the quantum thicknesses of polycarbonate sheeting to dimension the clue object quite accurately. Further deduction about the arc size and rail separation shown in the object led to the correct "guess" about the use of soccer balls in the game. The learning done about the utility of hints was apparently done on the GDC end, since no such "easy" clue has been offered yet this year.

The clue before that? We missed the connection between slippery and fishes? Now, making that association would have been lunacy. Especially since fish have scales, and there are scales at the competitions, right?

Just a note about the song Loco-Motion. Written by Gerry Goffin and Carole King, maybe it's in the key of B-flat. If so, I'm guessing that the field this year will be flat. Good one, GDC. Are we having fun yet?

Snooze well. I hope you have a wake-up call in for the 8th, Mr. Duster. :D

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Didn't they write that because of her unique way of dancing?

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

So you're presuming 189 posts in this thread are worthwhile? ;)

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Jeesh people, if we're ever gonna make some progress on the clue, you can't reuse the same things (re:ideas).
Hence... I present you all these:



There. Now isn't life great when there are options on how to be sarcastic? :p

Oh, & these past 5 pages have been HYSTERICAL btw. What a great thread to come back to CD & read after my long absence from the site. :D

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Carole sang backup on the Little Eva demo of Loco-motion. Eva was their nanny before getting into the music business. Apparently there was a follow-on song Old Smokey Loco-motion too. It's a very rich source of fuel for speculation, that's certain.

Oh, and the song was originally in E-flat, so there goes the basis for my prediction of a flat field this year. Ho Hum. I was sooooo close, too. :eek:

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

The only other community I know that can create such outlandish conspiracy theories like this was when Valve launched the Portal 2 alternate reality game.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Well I guess that joke fell.....
......
.....
....
...
..
.
flat. (YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!)

PS the other dead horse images are awesome.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

This YEAHHHHHHHHHHHH

or

this YEAHHHHHHHHHH


I MUST KNOW!

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Well yeah. Maybe 45 posts with new information and guesses, and the rest were discussion based on those posts. And 25 posts regarding Evan's ideas, too.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

The second YYEEAAHH. It would have made more sense if I had added a picture of safety goggles.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

UUUGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

My fiance has about had it. "Are you on that Robots site again; You need help"

After reviewing all and I mean all of the threads posted here. I have come to the conclusion that I and for that matter most of us have no idea and will just have to wait with bated breath.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

i'm inclined to agree

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

I will say the one of the games designed by my man Tetraman was very interesting and got the neurons firing and the juices flowing. This does seem at least plausable and contains enough complex elements (multiple scoring end game and the like) as has become the GDC's way.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Did someone mention columns??? ::safety::

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

i agree.. it would be an insanely amazing game indeed!

we'll know for sure in 5-6 days ::safety::

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

only 5 days, 3 hours, 40 minutes and 30 seconds till kickoff!

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Tell her to get used to it. Or yes, you may need help: marital counselling type of help. ;)

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

I don't know if this has already been mentioned but if it has I have a feeling that no one is going to see it buried deep in posts. I'm trying to think of weird stuff that doesn't make and sense, because if it does make sense then it's not a FIRST hint. The first thing that comes to mind is that the picture is 252x281, which isn't a standard picture aspect ratio. 252/281 is 0.896797153 if that means anything to any one. Maybe it's got a a code or something hidden inside it?

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Think of it this way: this thread is another way for the GDC to get some ideas. The more we hypothesize what game elements we would use and how we would go about playing a game the more the GDC and Dave have to think about. Not saying they will use, but at least think about.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

I've tried to keep my theories to myself this entire time, since the thread was moving to fast for me to even attempt to keep up anyway... But now that the thread seems to have slowed down a bit, I figured I'd post up.

It's FRC's 20th Season and it seems that they're going to try to pay homage to their past, what better way to do so than with recreating a game from the past. (Past so distant that only a handful of people that played the game are still around) I think that First is creating a variant of Maize Craze, and here are my reasons:

1) Dave posted up a large Tennis ball a few months back. Now, we all know that Dave likes to lead us on with false hints and funny bits of humor, but this one sort of spoke to me. The Tennis ball was the perfect size for an FRC competition, relatively easy to get, very clearly visible and distinct from a hundred feet away, so why not have it for a game piece?

2) There is a column clearly visible in the first hint, though it seems that it's been overlooked by many of the current game theories. In Maize Craze there was also a column where a Tennis Ball rested at the beginning of the match and was to be removed to score points.

3) Again, it's an important year for FRC. What better way to celebrate a bright history than to relive some parts of it? I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one or two things from previous games make it into the 2011 game.

4) Also, the image used for the hint has been reversed from it's original. So it's the same - but different. I don't know if the reversing is as important as that idea.

I'm sure there are some flaws in this theory, but it was where I went when I thought about everything...

Here you go:

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

I don't know if anybody else has posted this already but after some looking around, I found a paper by Hans P Moravec titled "Locomotion, Vision and Intelligence", from the Robotics Institute at Carnegie Mellon. The paper concerned AI and robotic vision used in the CMU Rover. Keep looking and find that more recently he has been working on stereoscopic vision and in 2003 started a company called SEEGRID which is working on autonomous control for vehicles using visual sensors.

May be of use, may not.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Does anyone have a picture or graphic that would show me the Maize Craze field? I'd love to design something that worked off of that.

I see the wikipedia page on Maize Craze describes it...but does anyone have a picture of it?

EDIT: I see the FIRST wiki has more info...

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

No, apparently not. Rather, when she started to do live shows, she had to come up with dance moves that reflected the name of the song.

The bottom of the original picture was cropped to eliminate the writing on it.

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

We need to come up with a new platitude because "beating a dead horse" is incorrect to describe what has been going on.

It refers to the fact that you can't make a dead horse move no matter how hard you beat it or an idea that has no merit or chance of moving forward will not move forward no matter how many times you bring it up.

It has nothing to do with repeating the same thing fact and over again.

Thoughts?

for example:

That kid who keeps saying that herding is a winning strategy in Overdrive over and over again even though your team had decided it isn't is "beating a dead horse."

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

Rules: http://team358.org/history/1992-1999/1992comp.pdf

Those who don't study history (or threads) are bound to repeat it?

Re: 2011 Game Hint #1
 

I think this is a good path of thought. I've heard a lot about autonomous robots and vision and I think it's something that the GDC keeps trying to implement. I would suspect that this hint is telling us that this game is going to have a focus on autonomous operation. I'm thinking that might mean a longer autonomous mode, more vision elements, or something of that nature.