Possible new product Survey
 

I am in the works of making a new product to help teams out at competitions. Please take a brief moment out of your day to take the following survey.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/HMPLYF2

Thank You!!



P.S. Please only take this survey once.

Re: Possible new product Survey
 

Just took the survey. If you are reading the topic now please take the survey. Thanks :)

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I also took the survey, but no worries: I put it back when I was done. :p

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So far I have 11 results.

Thank you everyone who took the 5 minutes.

I am hoping to have an item for sale a few days after Kick-Off!

Stay Tuned.

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Alex, this is a fantastic idea!

I've been looking for a way to make my own field layout clip board for sometime now and it seems like you're already way ahead of me. I'd love to see this happen.

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Good luck!

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Thanks all!

Yeah, up to 34 results so far. Keep them coming.


I am hoping to get product in soon and start shipping these out a few days after kickoff.

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Done.

I added some insight to what 836 has been doing since 2006 (if not earlier). We use a whiteboard that has field elements drawn on with permanent marker and then a red and blue dry erase marker for each alliance's gameplan.

We have been telling numerous teams at competitions that it works successfully and still have not seen that many other teams with one. I think this is a great idea, but try to make the product adaptable to an ever changing field from year to year.

Please let me know if you have any questions about how we conduct alliance meetings.

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I would be surprised if someone could sell something like this for a price lower than a team would spend on materials to make their own. Good luck.

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I think it's a question of quality, time, and ability of teams. For example, my students came up with a lexan-paper-lexan sandwich board for me last year -- while it was incredibly useful the bolts kept poking me, the edges never seemed smooth enough, and we just couldn't find the time to redo it. If the quality of a product is good enough to last a couple of seasons yet adaptable to each season's game (better yet, interchangeable to fit VEX, FTC, and FRC in one board), then to me it's worth buying the product and having the students spend time on the other important things that sometimes don't get done as well as they should.

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I was the one that suggested the "software".

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How does software apply here?

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Planning, and strategy, like this software: http://www.teamonthree.com/playbooks...ook-maker.aspx

I had success using similar software and printing it out for all my team mates.

It can be modified for every year instead of wasting physical resources, only man time and a few bytes are used. Also the strategies and plans can be saved for later use.

I just think that is a lot more economical and better on general.

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I suspect you are misunderstanding the goal here. We're talking about meeting with one's alliance partners before a given match in order to compare teams' strengths and abilities against those of the opposing alliance, and choose a strategic plan for that particular match. Preprinted play cards would rarely, if ever, correspond to the specific mix of robots playing.

It seems to me that a portable computer represents significantly more "physical resources" than a whiteboard, a laminated clipboard, or a pad of paper, even if a new whiteboard and set of dry-erase markers is used each season. A used match strategy board even makes a good end-of-year memento for the drive coach, if you consider such trinkets a worthwhile part of the team experience.

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Oh I assumed due to the very low requirements for running such software that the classmate would have been sufficient to use. My team never did such planning, just talked it over with the alliance. My coach once told us that its not about the X's and O's but Bills and Joes. The coach can make all the best plays and the best strategies, but its really up to the players, driver for this situation, to pull it off. I don't know about you, but even with planning, everything goes up in the air once you actually start. Its so unpredictable during the game.

I mean, but if its boards that float your boat, go for it. I guess I am just the new generation that sees the boards as "old school" (Take no offense, like 20 years from now, kids will be laughing at our super computers)

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I guess you could do it with an iPad / Classmate, but a lot of the stuff I use a strategy board for is for non-playbook strategies - drawing arrows between bots, scribbling out autonomous modes, et cetera. It would require a much higher investment than a marker and a handful of magnets to make software do what's being sought here.

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For digital devices, a 'strategy book' is very straightforward. A simple graphic of the field with some software paint brushes would suffice to create strategies. One such program already comes with Windows, and in Win7 it's pretty darn nice to use with a touch surface. Saving the picture off is the hardest part (mostly because MS's operating system doesn't come with a default theme for larger buttons to be used by fingers...). I do this kind of thing all of the time for class with my Lenovo touch netbook.

Since the electronic device wouldn't be needed all of the time, it could stay in the pits on the charger. Yet I do agree that it's a $500 investment for something that's more of a toy than anything in regards to FRC; perhaps it's best to use this method only if someone already owns it and is willing to lend it.

Personally, given the choice I'd still rather have a 'board' and dry-erase; I have a phone with a camera and a real digital camera to 'save' the strategy off.

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I'm with Chris on this one.

While a software option would be cool, it also means that you'd need some sort of touch screen device like a tablet PC, iPad, etc... That device would also need to be charged, needs time to setup, would be relatively fragile (in comparison to a clipboard) and is also just one more thing to have to keep an eye on.

A clipboard is great because it takes up minimal room, can be tossed on a cart, in a backpack, or just carried around and is pretty forgiving if you drop it, step on it, throw it, or attempt to use it for some other purpose other than a clipboard...

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That's likely a valid assumption, but I think there are other assumptions you're making that aren't nearly as good. When logged in as the Driver user, it doen't easily have the option of running arbitrary programs. The keyboard and trackpad are simply unsuited to such on-the-go use. Most importantly, though, the Classmate is needed for running the robot. It can't be taken from that task during strategy planning.

I suggest that you take the opportunity to watch some of the "powerhouse" teams in action before their matches at the next competition you attend. Deciding on a strategic plan for each specific match is an important part of being an effective alliance. If you leave it up to the drivers to decide what to do, there won't be anywhere near the coordinated action necessary to play well against an alliance that does have an overall plan.

That's why it makes sense to establish strategic roles for each robot in advance. That way the drivers have a clear task to work on even in the middle of what seems like total chaos.

If you want to spend your limited programming resources to reproduce on a computer what can easily be done better with a power-independent, larger, lighter, and cheaper whiteboard, that's up to you, but...

...Yeah, what he said.

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That's a great idea, Adam! Hope it works out for you!
The Software idea seems a bit superfluous by the way.

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I just took the survey.
That is a really great idea! I know my team would use one of those every meeting and almost all the time during the competition.

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I tend to agree.

If someone wants to go the computerized route, the 5th Gear Simulator has had a "Show me a picture of the field" option for the last couple of years (it's not very popular; but we might take a little time to keep it alive again this season).

The 5th Gear option can be used by running 5th Gear during the tournament or by saving a screen shot ahead of time and using something like MS Paint or PowerPoint to sketch on top of it.

My preference was/is printing one of the field illustrations from FIRST (from the rules) on 11x17 and/or 8.5x11 paper and taking a stack of them, plus a clipboard, to the tournament.

However, an inexpensive clipboard might help you avoid looking like a dork when you drop the stack of papers as you try to juggle several hand-held items walking around the tournament or in a crowded pit area. ;)

Blake

Blake

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And a several hundred dollar touchscreen computer. I'd rather use a $15 whiteboard (which unlike paper is eraseable!)

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we laminate a scale drawing of the field and attach it to an old a cookie sheet. We use scaled magnets to simulate max size of robots and it works out amazingly. we can draw on it with dry erase markers. Our team loves it.

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It doesn't have to. We develop a strategy that our alliance mates agree to - or they develop one we agree to - and we work the strategy as hard as we can. That got us an impressive record last year.
And other uses...

But they take forever to boot up! :p

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just finished your survey, and hope it was helpful. because of our scouting other teams' capabilities, general strategy is usually discussed with partners well before we get into the que line. because of the fluid nature of the game once the match begins, it's up to the coaches to decide on changes. those decisions are most critical and ultimately can determine the outcome of a match. Strategy " boards" can go a long way in preparing for these changes.:)

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Thanks everyone who has taken the survey. We really appreciate all the comments. We hope to provide an excellent product to robotic teams in the near future.

Stay Tuned.

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"Eraseable" is both a blessing and a curse. What I draw on the paper stays put when I tuck it under my arm or into a manilla folder or fold it in half.

There are at least two kinds of people in the world...

Blake

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Now that we have the game and all.

What type of field layout would you like to see on the boards?

Only the rack?

Half-Half, rack on top, top view on the bottom?

Rack on top with the tape lines, top view of field on bottom?

Others?

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Every peg needs to be on the board somehow - I would say make it "flat" along the span of the 7 foot safe zone so they can be easily circled with a marker.

I feel bad - this is definitely a tough game to make a whiteboard for.

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Yeah,

Make a quick sketch and add it as an attachment to this thread.

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I'd almost be inclined to suggest that you create a board just for the pegs alone. Whether this is an additional product, or the product, is up to you. But I'm sure quite a few alliances will have the analyst keeping track of what tubes are up, and what are needed. Definitely erasable, since magnets would require too many pieces to accompany the board.

I agree with Chris, this is definitely a tough game to create a board for.

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Done! Completely painless.

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I'm with Chris, every peg needs to be on the board. His suggestion of laying them "flat" across the protected zone would probably work the best with the game field. Or, you could always add a picture of the pegs to the back side of the board, if it didn't add too much cost.

---

Well Played Mr. Rotolo, I may or may not have engaged in the occasional clipboard beat down of my own...

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Ah, now I understand what you guys mean. Something like the attached image.

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Why would you need the second set of pegs?

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Usually such strategy diagrams have red and blue alliance markings.

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Pre-Match scoring estimations, autonomous planning (what the opponent may score, vs your score) etc.

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I don't quite know, I didn't put them in for any specific reason. You really don't, and had I thought about it, I wouldn't have included the second set of pegs. Thanks for pointing it out.

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We've taken the results of the survey and some of our own ideas and combined them into a line of products for this years game.

Check it out at http://twopencildesigns.com/shop

You should be able to order items directly off of the website. Any problems let me know and I'll be able to work with you. I hope that you like what we've come up with and we are open to any suggestions you may have.

Thanks.
Liz Smith

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I guess I should have posted my opinions sooner, but (looking at the magnetic dry erase board) I wonder if you could do it with the field horizontal and then the scoring pegs on top of the field. Not sure if others would use it the same way, but I think the field drawing is a lot more important than the scoring pegs (its a lot easier to say "lets score top right first" than try to verbally explain how and where you want a defender robot to go). Still a really cool product.

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Any other ideas for products?

We are open for business and have items ready for shipment.