No Mentors..
 

Any advice?

We are a brand new team and we do not have mentors. I do not foresee us being able to get mentors this season. Our team was organized very late and with very little planning from the individuals who asked us to start a team.

Now, do NOT get me wrong. I am so glad the opportunity was given to us and we are going to run with it and make it the best possible year. I am working hard to get sponsors and financial assistance to see us through the season and hope we find mentors along the path.

However - I am planning for the possibility of no mentors and need advice.

Re: No Mentors..
 

What might be a good start is to go to parents on the team first, and if anyone works for an engineering related business have them ask around at work to see if they would be interested.

Re: No Mentors..
 

It would probably be a good idea to contact your Regional Director, talk to teams around you, and in general network wherever you can for mentors (parents, local engineering businesses, technical education teachers, etc.).

if you're asking for advice as to how to run a team without mentors.. That's not exactly my expertise, but regardless I'd guess it's a rather difficult task. I know there are teams that get by without engineers, some of them active on Chief Delphi, so hopefully they'll be able to more specifically help you out.

Re: No Mentors..
 

842 won the Championship Chairman's Award with no engineering mentors on their team.....

Ask parents, etc.

If you are helping the team and have technical questions, there are a bunch of knowledgeable mentors here on CD who will help you figure things out.

Re: No Mentors..
 

FIRST has started a "Virtual Mentors" program for 2011 also.

There may be people in your area. If not, these are experienced mentors who can be available for calls and support.

Here is the link from Bills Blog.

https://my.usfirst.org/FIRSTPortal/L...ual_login.aspx

Re: No Mentors..
 

I think I wanted to:

1) Be assured that it is possible to get through this first year without the engineers

and

2) see if there was someplace particular I could run as fast as possible to and yell HELP!!!! when that moment arises. :D

Re: No Mentors..
 

842's teacher is quite an outstanding mentor in my estimation; inspiration is what it is all about!

Re: No Mentors..
 

We started our fist year without a mentor. After three weeks of going it alone, we paired up with another team that met 30 minutes away. They were gracious enough to allow us to use there build site, access to their mentors and ever made parts for us. The biggest thing I learned during those few weeks was how a good FIRST FRC team is run. There has to be at least one team in your area that would be willing to help you out. It was mentioned before: check with your regional director. Also, check TIMS. They don't have the "Are you willing to mentor a team?" question for nothing! If you don't get any takers in Texas, drop me a line and i'll help you out in any way I can.

Re: No Mentors..
 

I think you guys are in Texas? Look around, see if there are any veteran teams that may be able to offer advice if/when you need it. Also take a look at this:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=87994

While I haven't looked in depth in this, FRSee looks like a place that you might be able to get help from.

If you have any other questions, please ask! (or PM me)

Hope this helps,

Jason Law

Re: No Mentors..
 

Mentors don't necessarily come from sponsors. Parents and teachers are just as capable of being mentors. A mechanical mentor can be anyone with experience building things and putting things together. Similar for an electrical mentor. So don't think you HAVE to get professional mentors.

Also, Corpus Christi is filthy with petroleum industry. You're surrounded with mentor potential, you just need to reach out a bit to some local companies to see if anyone is interested in volunteering their time. Your chamber of commerce isn't as useful as I'd like, but these guys look like a good opportunity:
http://www.maverickengineering.com/
Call tomorrow and ask to speak to someone in public relations and give them your elevator pitch and make clear you're not necessarily looking for money, but volunteers as well.

Also, as Jane Young asked in another thread, where are you guys going for kickoff? If you're headed to Houston, I've got some people here you should talk to. Actually, if you're headed to San Antonio, I've probably got some people you should talk to there as well.

EDIT to add:
You've got some other teams around you down there. 2787 - Innovation Academy for Engineering, Environmental & Marine Science, has a few years experience.

Re: No Mentors..
 

The answer to both 1 and 2 is yes. Yes, you can. It may not be pretty but it is doable and you have wonderful people in Texas who can help you. I've sent Andrew Schuetze a pm since you will be attending the Alamo Kickoff. Look at the list that Chris Fultz gave you.
You'll want to become acquainted with the FIRST website, esp. the FRC sections. That might be something for you and the 7 people traveling with you to Kickoff to do for homework this week. Look at the first part of the manual that has been released, check the deadline dates for various things, check out the virtual mentor list. Make sure you are signed up in TIMS. If you don't know what that is, ask us.


You can do this.

Jane

P.S. Kevin, he answered that the team is traveling to the Alamo Kickoff.

Re: No Mentors..
 

Don't panic, it is a solvable problem.

1st) There are 3 other FRC teams in your immediate area. Collegiate High School Robotics Team, Innovation Academy for Engineering, Environmental & Marine Science, and Collegiate High School. You can use this to locate more teams: http://usfirst.org/whatsgoingon.aspx

2nd) Contact your regional director. They can help with pairing rookie / veteran teams. They may also be able to provide a little help in matching mentors to the team.

3rd) Ask parents to pitch in, technical and non-technical.

4th) Read the manual. REALLY read the manual especially on the robot rules and game rules !!

http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/...nt.aspx?id=452

and here are technical resources
http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/...nt.aspx?id=478

5th) Chief Delphi is here....

Re: No Mentors..
 

After that contact local universities. College students are less inspirational sometime but they sometimes have good ideas as far as engineering goes.

Re: No Mentors..
 

Though it is my opinion that every team should have a good technical mentor to get the most out of the program, it is not necessarily required to have a successful season or, at the very least, a rewarding experience.

Use the available resources mentioned earlier and to track down whoever your can, FIRST alums are hiding everywhere these days! I'd probably build the kit-bot chassis (a good, solid chassis for beginners) and keep your mechanisms simple and robust. The majority of the problems I've seen rookies have at competition aren't so much from lack of robot functionality, but rather lack of reliability.

And of course, pay attention to the other areas of team development, there could be a Rookie All-Star Award in your future which would be a nice boost for many successful years to follow.

Oh ya, check Chief Delphi every day!

Re: No Mentors..
 

Carl,
For the benefit of our readers, can you go into a little bit about FIRST alumni and what that means - where they can be found? Also - maybe the benefit of college mentors? Also - one more thing - explain the kit-bot. What that means.

Thank you. It would be a good reference for rookies/new teams.

Jane

Re: No Mentors..
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ighlight=lingo Jane asked me to post this thread (I think this was the right one).

I also went through and found some of the old threads/resources/links.

http://www.team358.org/files/mechani...nRefTables.jpg - Drive train reference tables, might not be accurate anymore but can be useful for demonstrating the concepts.

http://picasaweb.google.com/RoboticW...67714923582722 Lewis's gallery, one of the best places for robot pictures I have found. (I've heard things about Pat Fairbank's but don't have a link.)

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...32&postcount=1 Something I think is important.

Finally, an introduction to our friend Dave Lavery.

Editted: Found the right link.

Re: No Mentors..
 

Thank you for providing helpful links to information, Andrew.

Jane

Re: No Mentors..
 

FIRST Alumni are anyone who has participated in FIRST in high school or, in the case of college-run teams, participated as a college mentor and are no longer involved with a team. This is usually because they move to a new city and start working a fresh new job and FIRST gets pushed down the priority list. I have dozens of friends from Purdue alone who are now scattered around the country working and going about their non-FIRST lives. Sometimes they can be brought back into the program if approached by a local team. 461 recently got an engineer from the local Caterpillar plant who was on a team in another city to stop by meetings this fall.

I'm not sure where FIRST gets their list of potential mentors willing to help, but it probably has something to do with the push the past few years (Dean's homework) to gather information about team alumni. The form had a place to indicate if you would be willing to continue involvement in the future.

College mentors are a similar case, they are usually former high school participants who want to continue the experience. We have found this is a good way to keep getting an infusion of different design philosophies from different teams from around the country every few years.

As for the kit bot, that will make more sense when you pick up your rookie version of the kit of parts. It includes a bolt-together chassis frame that is pre-built to be within the size constraints and work with bumpers, kit gearboxes and kit wheels. It limits you a little in design configurations but it provides a robust drive system that takes only minutes to set up, allowing you to focus completely on the other robot mechanisms. It is also a good way to get something up and driving to give your team practice driving and using the cRio platform early in the build season.

Re: No Mentors..
 

Excellent, Carl - thank you!

And, to add, college mentors can also bring an understanding of the other aspects of the competition with them that will help in the areas such as business/imagery/marketing, etc. Powerful stuff.

Thanks again, Carl.
Jane

Re: No Mentors..
 

Not to toot my own horn (because I'm actually bad at this) but college students bring perspective to many teams of how other teams are run. Students also feel more comfortable talking to them because in many cases they are only a couple years older. This can be a blessing and a curse because sometimes students will not listen to the college mentors. College students also don't always have the discretion that older mentors do when it comes to doing things.

Re: No Mentors..
 

Definitely! Purdue FIRST (461, 1646 and 1747) has been lucky enough to get Purdue students from various Chairman's Award winning and highly successful teams throughout Indiana such as TechnoKats, Hammond and Cyber Blue. It's been a good way to learn from their successes and leverage some of the methods that have made these teams so great.

Re: No Mentors..
 

As everyone here has said, Yes you can do it without "professional" mentors. We have run for 5 years without a "professional Mechanical Engineer". We started with 4 college guys who had done FIRST in high school (one graduated, so now we have a "pro") and a team mom who cant even program her DVR. The college guys were a great resource, they knew all about how competitions went, how to market the team, how to judge whisper and everything else that goes along with running a team. We managed to win Rookie All Star and go to Champs our first year.

Everyone here on CD will jump at the chance to help you out if possible. Texas has some of the best teams in the country and some of the nicest mentors to boot. They will give you hand whenever possible.

Remember it's not all about the robot. If you look at the awards list you will notice that 2/3rds of them have nothing to do with the actual robot. Just have fun, be goofy, don't panic and if you make it to a regional (even with a box of parts) all the teams will help you out.

Re: No Mentors..
 

Thanks for all the helpful posts from the community that is FIRST. I did post in the KOP thread by the same OP that I'll be contacting this team ASAP.

I did not look at all of the quality resource links already provided in other posts but here are a few of my suggestions:

For Teams by Teams
The 2007 President’s Circle has selected resources that are particularly useful for helping start new teams. Our goal was to provide a substantial directory of useful resources, while not including everything available from the FIRST Community.
Resources

• Top Team Manuals for New FIRST Teams
• Top Web Sites for New FIRST Teams
• “Must Have” Resources for New FIRST Teams
• Where to Find Financial Support for New FIRST Teams

FRC Mentors Resources Library
The contents of the FRC Mentor Resources Connection have been accumulated and categorized through the efforts of many FRC Team Mentors and FIRST Senior Mentors. It is an exercise in Mentors helping Mentors. Their insight and contribution make this offering possible. FIRST would like to thank all of these dedicated volunteers for their time and support of this project.


I would say that in today's FIRST competition, a critical mentor/coach is someone who can program in C++/JAVA or use LabView as the mechanical end of things can be easier to achieve basic robot functions but nothing happens if one doesn't put in some code. We didn't need much of an autonomous mode or have to write much code back in 2001 when the control system was a BASIC Stamp robot controller and operator interface with just speed controllers and relays. Things are still a bit plug n play in that regard but setting up the wifi connection between the robot and laptop ... does require some skill but a good techie student might be able to read and follow the manuel to get things up and running.


As an additional FYI for other posters to this thread, FRC in Texas has been exploding in the last three years and these kinds of situations will be more of the norm. Corpus Christi, Texas did not have any FRC teams until the 2009 season so the local college scene is only going to have a few FRC veteran students with one or two years of FIRST experience. We will need a lot more of the virtual and tele-mentoring resources.

Re: No Mentors..
 

My team, 3204, was a rookie team last year. We had no mentors and yet we ended up winning the NYC Regional. The most help we got was from a few parents and the school janitors =)
If I have any advice it would be to do your research before the build season, and make sure everyone has a specific task.

Re: No Mentors..
 

our mentor is only available once a week so i have an idea of what working with no mentor is like. basically you just have to be focused and driven towards what you want to do. meet frequently because you are going to loose focus with out someone there to keep you on track. if you need help with something that you guys are stuck with just ask around people are always willing to help. and lastly have fun with it dont stress, relaxe and do as you guys think you should

Re: No Mentors..
 

Andrew's post and awesome information sheds light on the situation here in Texas. Not to sidetrack but it is good for our FRC community to see that Texas is spread thin in all areas, including the 'local college scene' in areas like Corpus Christi. That means that it is also spread thin in graduates of the 'local college scene' who have been exposed to FRC or FIRST, in general.

Mentors, please think about the impact of this on the teams that have formed in recent years and formed for this upcoming season and if you can sign up to help mentor long distance, go for it.

Andrew is one of our robotics heroes here in Texas, who values and cares about teams in FIRST. We are lucky to have him among us.

Jane

Re: No Mentors..
 

I don't think I saw this mentioned, but you can always ask your FIRST Senior Mentor in Texas for help with finding mentors...

From the FIRST web site: http://www.usfirst.org/community/vol...t.aspx?id=3310

TX Mike Henry mhenry@usfirst.org

Re: No Mentors..
 

Temporarily highjacking this thread
Having one senior mentor in a state of 27,000 square miles with now 145 FRC teams is a difficult job as Jane Young can attest. (Jane was the first FSM before turning over the reins to Mike Henry a couple of years ago.):)

FIRST in Texas (FiT) is attempting to help with the same problem that we have in the FIRST Tech Challenge. There is likely to be 150 - 200 new FTC teams in Texas this year alone. To make it a bit more of a challenge, many of these teams will be competing at events hosted by folks new to FIRST themselves. To help with that situation, FiT is funding six or seven mentors that we are calling FTC Technical Mentors to help provide training and assistance across the state. I think they have people under contract in Houston and Fort Worth and maybe in Laredo. However, they are looking for folks in El Paso, Lubbock, Tyler and the Killeen/Waco area. If you have FIRST experience and have time to organize training sessions and practice sessions over the next 4 - 5 months, get in contact with Erin Hagan or Kristi Holman with FiT ASAP. Send them a cover letter and resume via fax or email.

Okay, back to posting ideas on how this FRC team in Corpus Christi and others survive thier rookie year by finding and developing mentor support systems.

Re: No Mentors..
 

There are many retired engineers out there, you just need to find them and not scare them off.
Letters to the editor for your local newspaper and contacting tv stations explaining your situation should get you some help. It worked for us.
You will need to keep it simple so you don't overwhelm the people helping you. FIRST , the FIRST engineering staff and Andymark will supply you with enough parts to make a running robot in the KOP. They do a great job with the rookie kit.

Re: No Mentors..
 

1322 has never had an engineer ( though we do have 2 engineering students from Kettering) and has won "Best in Engineering" a couple of times. This year we had an engineer join us!!! We are excited!! Parents can be your biggest resource. Ask a local team for some guidance. Is there a local college in your area? I would bet with you being in Texas there are some people who had been in FIRST previously who are looking for something to do. 1 more place (and I am sorry I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head) is the association of retired engineers. Those guys (and ladies) love this stuff!!!

Re: No Mentors..
 

Also....our programming genius Skyler has been holding Skype sessions with our programmers. I'm sure if you wanted to join in he would be happy to fix it so you can. Just PM me for more info.

I bet you could set up the same kind of arrangement with Electrical and Mechanical people.

Re: No Mentors..
 

They don't always have to be engineers either. This year the acquisition I am most excited about is a retired millwright who loves to tinker.

I also bolded/underlined a section that always needs more emphasis. FRC is a competition. Don't forget this and build something because it will be cool, build something that is competitive. There is no shame in using the KOP stuff, it is there to be used.

Re: No Mentors..
 

If worse comes to worse and no local mentors can be found, by any or all of the methods suggested above, CD is a good place to ask some of those questions. Having access to several thousand mentors in one place, even if you aren't physically there, is a whole lot better than having zero mentors.

Re: No Mentors..
 

You just reminded me of something that the original poster should check into:
http://chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87994

A network of FRC teams on Skype. So far there are 15 or so contacts on the list. And with the latest Skype, video conferencing is even possible.

Re: No Mentors..
 

The one thing you need to have is somebody in charge. It's best if that is an adult but not mandatory.

Pure democracies just don't work well in the engineering process. Someone needs to have the final authority to make decisions. Somebody has to have as their #1 priority focus over the overall robot project or the project will be doomed for failure.

Re: No Mentors..
 

Best In Engineering isn't an award...

Re: No Mentors..
 

In our first year I was the only adult on the team of 12 students. We had NEVER seen an FRC event, had NEVER seen an FRC robot in person, and had only met one person with FRC experience, once, for an hour, the previous spring (before we even knew were were going to enter FRC.)

And we... well... we did about as well as you'd expect. We got our butts kicked! At least for the first day or so until we figured out what was going on. We were doing okay come Saturday, and then went on to win at least one FRC every award each year for the next six years. So don't panic. Where you are going is FAR more important than where you are right now.

Based on that experience, here is my advice:

1) Build simple. There are usually multiple ways to score. Pick the easiest one, and do it as well as you can.

2) Follow the instructions and build the kitbot as early as you can. You'll be given the parts and instructions to build a decent drivetrain. Use them. You can get fancy next year.

3) Don't be afraid to use wood. Baltic birch plywood is a wonderful building material.

4) Don't assume that engineers have some special knowledge that makes them better at building an FRC robot. If you've got a shop teacher at your school (maybe you ARE the shop teacher...) then you've got a technical expert. Maybe not an expert at labview programming, but surely there is a techno-geeky kid or two in your school who can follow some instructions and get the machine up and running. Our first programmer figured out how to write autonomous code on the plane to Toronto for our first tournament....

5) Machinists, millwrights, welders, mechanics, and any number of tradespeople can offer practical advice and often assitance beyond what you might get from many deskbound engineers. FRC is a hands on game... find some hands on people.

6) But whoever you get involved, don't let them talk you in to building a complex machine. Focus on sturdy, reliable and simple... start early, work hard and leave time to test.

And whatever you do... READ the RULE BOOK. ALL of it! Especially the tech inspection parts that give size and weight limits.... build under size and under weight.

Oh... and have fun. You'd be surpised how far you get by working hard and having fun.

Jason

Re: No Mentors..
 

Maybe "Engineering Excellence" is what they were referring to...?

Anyway, 816 has never had a true "Engineering" Mentor for as long as I've been on the team. (Since Fall of 2005) We've made due with some helpful parents, some brilliant students, and the right attitude. You don't NEED an Engineer or an army of them, it's just helpful if you do.

Come to think of it, this year we don't have any parents returning, so most of the Technical Mentoring is going to be Done by myself and another alumni.

Re: No Mentors..
 

As already mentioned, I definitely encourage you to join the new video collaboration network FRSee. This will put many experienced teams and mentors at your disposal to contact at any time. We anticipate a large influx of teams joining on and after kick-off day. Everything you need to know to get signed up is at the FRSee Website.

Also as Chris Fultz mentioned, be sure to sign up here with the new Virtual Technical Advisor program. Its purpose is to help teams in exactly your situation, by connecting you with technical mentors that can help you via phone and internet communication.

Re: No Mentors..
 

We are working hard to make it happen here.

No rock is being left unturned and our partnership with our outside entities are being strengthened. The students learning successfully is my main goal and they are already excited and learning.

Every piece of advice and assistance that everyone has posted is very appreciated. The team is busy reading, researching, and talking up the program more than I thought possible at such an early stage. I had a parent call me tonight asking questions, but let me know her son hasn't stopped talking about robotics this week.

What our team hopes to inspire is the ideal that no matter what we can make it happen. Everything is a learning opportunity and as things happen they are accessing the changing situations, evaluating solutions, and solving problems.

Looking forward to kick off!

Re: No Mentors..
 

I'm here to report that team 3778 is well on their way to becoming a FIRST Robotics team, congratulations.

Re: No Mentors..
 

I'm going to echo Richard here.

My hat is off to you, because despite having never officially competed or having involvement before, you truly seem get what FIRST is really all about. Keep this mentality and set of ideals with you throughout the season and no matter what it will have been a success.

Good luck to you and your team in the rapidly approaching season.

Re: No Mentors..
 

I agree with this. Depending on the dynamics of your team, you need someone with authority to handle disputes. And don't forget the NEMO aspects of the team - an adult to handle (or at least oversee) the money, travel, paperwork., etc. can free up the students for robot building. Not that the students can't handle the NEMO aspects - this can be a good learning experience - but it is easy to miss details that can cause a lot of problems down the road.