Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I have to believe that a full autonomous game is impossible. the littlest bump from another robot could completely screw up any match in full autonomous mode.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Agreed. If you want full autonomous mode, try Botball. That's always fun!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Good

Post

I've got a feeling that you have figured it out. It's not just the FIRST logo - it's the design that is what's important.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Full autonomous would never be possibly, it would put too much strain on any of the teams programmer-requiring them to make a legitimate artificial intelligence, instead of a scripted on as is.


EDIT: After reading through this thread, I have come to agree with Tetraman and EricH: It's not about the picture, its about what isnt in the picture.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Maybe something like a Railroad Switch Yard. Positioning (and linking) large game pieces into a 'train', of course the chosen order wouldn't be revealed until the start of each match.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Let's try a different "track" (pun intended).

What if the hint has nothing to do with the game, but refers to the robots instead? In several of the previous seasons, we have had to design the robots, while also keeping in mind what other teams might design. Can I lift, can I be lifted, can I support another, etc. I would not be surprised if we have 3 different configurations (size, height, weight) and have to design the robot within those different and unique specs. So the first part of the design is how you expect to play the game, and how this robot will be a part of an alliance. Maybe, using the train motif - you have to figure out if you are the engine, the cargo car, or the caboose! Your alliance would be severely limited if all three were the same configuration!

Steve

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

That sounds like an FRC game! Especially because it has the randomness of the order in it!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

True the game could be a bit dry without some human element, what else is trademark of FIRST that could be removed?

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Defenitly agree. also i am a programmer and i know that a fully autonamous game would be near impossible(nothing is impossible)but pretty close.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

No autonomous period. There wasn't one up until 2003; it would be an interesting throwback to not have one for a year.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

The two pictures are just there to antagonize us. They can't release any information until this Saturday.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Perhaps it means they are borrowing ideas from things that someone's already done...
Remix of old games, anybody?

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think that that would be an interesting twist......in the wrong direction. No autonomous would make the match kind of predictable, knowing that your opponents will start exactly where they are! Plus, there wouldn't be that all robots for themselves time where it's easy to score!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I got it we got to put a square peg in a circular hole... o wait we do that every year already

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

After serious evaluation, I've come up with the first fact proven true about this years competition: There will be robots!:eek:

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Further analysis of the picture:
Size is 336 by 237
The RGB values of the red in the triangle is 237, 27, 36

The 237 comes up twice... and 336, which cannot be a legal RGB color, reappears as 36 in the blue channel

Suspicious...

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Full heartedly agree(but ya never know).......
also im prettty sure the robots are going to be made out of aluminum.
just throwing that out there

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think we're on to something here!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think this is very right except one thing.

The first game hint was not the cover for locomotion. It was actually the cover for Little Eva's greatest hits, one of the songs being Locomotion.

The second hint, as someone pointed out, appears to be the same one used in the FIRST 20th aniversery logo minus some key features.

Both hints, however, have been stripped of words and dishinguishing marks so as to make the connection dificult.

Putting 2 and 2 togeather it seems to me that this points at taking the "greatest hits" of the last 20 years of FRC and rolling it up into one game.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

???????????????

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

It's back to the original picture! A mix of the best parts of all previous games!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think we need to take in several aspect
1. both pictures were stripped of identification( obviously just to throw us off the trail)
2. the FRC logo simply tells us that this is going to be a FRC competiiton
3. though the picture was on little eva's greatest hits. the one listed the greatest was" locomotion".
leading me to belive that this year's competition will have something to do with trains or linking.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Can you really claim it's the "20th anniversary logo"? From this thread I thought that logo came out in '05 which would be 14 years of FRC

Good thinking though. Eric I think you're onto something.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Perhaps it's not WHAT was taken away but the fact that it WAS taken away. Game pieces can't be reused? Or instead of a game piece coming into the game during endgame, it is removed during endgame. Or we have something built on the field and have to take it down. Or better yet, that game (i forgot the name) where you take bricks out of the tower without letting the tower fall. I can hear the animation now "if a team takes a high brick, its 2 points, and if a team takes a low brick, its 4 points, however, if a team causes the tower to collapse, they lose 25 points. There are a total of 6 towers on the field, 3 blue, and 3 red. You are allowed to score points on an opponents tower only during the last 30 seconds of the match." XD

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

That would be a hazard for the robot, that unlike previous hazards, could destroy the robot.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

To add to about stripped of distinguishing marks, What if we are removing off something on our robots that makes us different from other bots?

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

it would be interesting. that could be tied into the "missing elements" from the pictures. Such as FIRST and the album title.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think we hit the nail on the money! I understand it's been discussed before, but I feel that the explanation referenced is the most thought out and reasonable one to back up that theory.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I can see where you are taking this and i can here the animation 2 lol. but i think your taking it into to much detail without enuf evidence.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Not necasarrily. The tower can be made out of something soft and cushiony. I don't know what the material is, but the Science Museum of Virginia has this thing where you build an Arch, and it has this hard yet soft to the touch and extremely light weight material on the pieces. I've had teammates throw them at my face and it didn't even sting a little. We've piled 30 of them on someone else and they stood up with minimum ease saying there was no weight on them. Something like that could make the towers. Part of inspection could be making sure nothing critical on the robot is exposed from the top.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

You mean Jenga, a giant game of Jenga. That would be nuts.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Oh don't worry, I know, but It all came into my head so fast I thought the cd community would giggle a little. :)

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

True! I didn't think about that!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

This is perhaps one of the most logical posts I've seen in a hint thread.

Well Done.

I just hope that Greatest Hits means that there will be more than one task this year. :D

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I don't know if it is or not. It's speculation like everything else in this thread.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

that could work for it. i suppose. but were really not getting anywhere. its like walking through a door and you see 50 more doors and every door leads you down a hallway to 100 more doors. and on and on. and you have to find the one door with the bathroom nearly impossilbe

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Thats a very interesting idea, though I believe that was the plan with suspending last year. I've thought long and hard about how suspending could have worked, and came up with an idea, should a similar game mechanic be used this year: Within the first week, many teams get together, and design a common "harness" system in which their robots may interlink, then try to get as many teams as possible to use it.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Sounds good! The only problem is that most people don't want to connect their robots unless they have too, me included!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

It was suggested in 2007.

Once people figured out about ramps, though, nobody went for it.

Same in 2010, but it didn't become universal.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

If something like that was to be done, wouldn't FIRST Standardize it ahead of time (Like the Trailer Hook-Ups of '09)

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Most every game has some sort of elevation, and we'd be sure to run into problems going up a slope!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

They could leave it to the teams to figure out--innovate in.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Does anyone remember that video at championships last year about how the first logo was invented? maybe theres some clues in that, or ways we could figure out what this actually means.

Also, this may sound stupid, but if you try saving the game hint as a picture, the name of it is "logo", so it probably hasnt been tampered with, besides taking out the words.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

This is my first year in FRC, so I wasn't in 2009's competition. If what you say is true, that makes me feels a lot better!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Since the rumor arose about a "coupling" or "chain" as seen in the hint, could there be some utilization of a trailer such as in Lunacy? That had a coupling-like fixture.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

my thought is this, a very large, movable goal in the center of the field at start, the goal is to score some game piece in this movable container, however as another component, the large movable trough is able to slide back and forth between sides of the field, the goal is to move the goal so that the game pieces resting in the bottom are on your side of the field.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

seems that this is just a wild goose chase......

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

The flaw with this is, the best option is simply to have your robot have a bar that's identical to the one on the field.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Since the beginnings of civilisation man has had a fascination for a human-like creation that would assist him. Societies in the early part of the first millennium engaged in slavery and used those slaves to perform the tasks which were either dirty or menial labours. Having slaves freed the enslavers to carry on their society and concentrate on what they perceived as more important tasks such as business and politics. Man had discovered mechanics and the means of creating complex mechanisms which would perform repetitive functions such as waterwheels and pumps. Technological advances were slow but there were more complex machines, generally limited to a very small number, which performed more grandiose functions such as those invented by Hero of Alexandria.
In the first half of the second millennium man began to develop more complex machines as well as rediscovering the Greek engineering methods. Men such as Leonardo Da Vinci in 1495 through to Jacques de Vaucanson in 1739 have made plans for, and built, automata and robots leading to books of designs such as the Japanese Karakuri zui (Illustrated Machinery) in 1796. As mechanical techniques developed through the Industrial age we find more practical applications such as Nikola Tesla in 1898 who designed a radio-controlled torpedo and the Westinghouse Electric Corporation creation Televox in 1926. From here we find a more android development as designers tried to mimic more human-like features including designs such as those of biologist Makoto Nishimura in 1929 and his creation Gakutensoku, which cried and changed its facial expressions, and the more crude Elektro from Westinghouse in 1938.
Electronics now became the driving force of development instead of mechanics with the advent of the first electronic autonomous robots created by William Grey Walter in Bristol, England in 1948. The first digital and programmable robot was invented by George Devol in 1954 and was ultimately called the Unimate. Devol sold the first Unimate to General Motors in 1960 where it was used to lift pieces of hot metal from die casting machines in a plant in Trenton, New Jersey.
Since then we have seen robots finally reach a more true assimilation of all technologies to produce robots such as ASIMO which can walk and move like a human. Robots have replaced slaves in the assistance of performing those repetitive and dangerous tasks which humans prefer not to do or unable to do due to size limitations or even those such as in outer space or at the bottom of the sea where humans could not survive the extreme environments.
Robots come in those two basic forms: Those which are used to make or move things, such as Industrial robots or mobile or servicing robots and those which are used for research into human-like robots such as ASIMO and TOPIO as well as those into more defined and specific roles such as Nano robots and Swarm robots.
Man has developed a fear of the autonomous robot and how it may react in society, such as Shelley's Frankenstein and the EATR, and yet we still use robots in a wide variety of tasks such as vacuuming floors, mowing lawns, cleaning drains, investigating other planets, building cars, entertainment and in warfare.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

not unless you can move your bar!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I wasn't around for that either (well I went to a couple competitions to watch, wasn't on the team).

However teams were given a diagram on how to make a standardized Trailer Hitch on the Back of their robots which was used to connect the bots to the scoring Trailers (which came with the field at events.

So I would be shocked if FIRST didn't standardize that ahead of time if it was to happen.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Bars are very tricky, ya know

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

not if they're done right and have a good team to maneuver the robot!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I was being sarcastic ..... -_-

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I agree, and would expect the GDC to also have seen that - that's why my comment wasn't based on connecting physically like in previous years, but to "connect" operationally or strategically by function. Three separate design types and three separate functions that you can choose from. It would make for a very different way of playing the qualification rounds, since the chances of seeing the correct pairing would rarely happen for both alliances, but the elimination rounds would be something else!

BTW, congratulations on your 10,000th post Eric! I've enjoyed reading what you have to say!

Steve

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Oh. Sorry. I'm a literalist.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Word for word from the geniuses at Wikipedia.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Going on the train idea...

If the endgame bonus is to couple all the robots together in a train (ramps are not allowed) and before that, we are doing something that has a fairly high speed. Overdrive with some other stuff is roughly the idea.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

well at least i can count to 20. take That!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Well it is supposably a mix of different games!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I defenitly agree with the train idea. but i think it will be more than an endgame bonus points

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I just don't want the robots connected as a train. That takes away the possibility of tank-drive!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hmm, if this was the case on the idea of connecting robots together like a train, wouldn't the logical conclusion for most teams be to build a train hitch (the piece connecting the cars that look almost like a hand shake, to me anyway) and then get as many other teams as possible to consider the idea?

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

i donot think that the robots will be linked together. mainly because if one robot has a disfunctional linker then the whole alliance is comprimised. also i think that it will be like pulling and pushing "cargo loaded" train cars around on tracks.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Just came up with this qoute now!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

That's reassuring! Our team relies on tank-drive!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

say... back to the idea of taking things away, couldn't it be that the thing taken away is individuality? Before, it was suggested that you work with your alliance partner, but not really required, it was possible to win when your partner did not show up. But what if that was taken away? What if it was a train, on a track, the leader would be chosen at random, and the others have mechanisms that do the rest of the game. Such as activate turntables and such, or maybe have like ball cannons to fire into a center goal. The idea is, all three teams (or two) on an alliance have to work in perfect unison, or else it's all lost. In the case a robot does not come to the field, a blank board with the specificed track wheels is put in its place, and a different leader is chosen.

Don't imagine what I'm saying to be exact, I'm saying something similar could happen

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

of course we could be completly wrong and this has nothing to do with trains

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

That would be interesting, but extremely hard, and there would be no way to go against another team, because you'd have to be on separate tracks, othwise you'd collide.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Some friends and I were talking over the game hints and we came up with the following idea: we think that hint one has been over-interpreted. The only commonality between the pictures is a link to a white, round object (the triangles to the circle in the FRC Logo/Little Eva to the pillar).

Our hypothesis is that each team will be linked to one immovable, white, round object in a zone of the field, one red robot and one blue robot per object.

Remember that in the past FRC has been trying to make it a good idea to have robots that don't try to do everything at once. By placing a physical limitation on where a robot can go, they would be strongly encouraging teams to specialize in one particular area on the field.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

something to ponder apon

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

is it just me or is this starting to get REAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL confusing

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Yes, but then you'd be stuck if you were in an alliance where you all specialized in the same thing. I don't think FIRST would want that.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

That's why you gotta build a cow catcher, although it'd be more like a robot catcher. 25 points if you derail your opponent.

Idk, you could still challenge the other alliance. Maybe the tracks are side by side, you could block for defense. Compete to grab the same items. Idk

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Well it depends on what you are doing in this conversation. If you are making ideas, then you're almost out of luck, because we already have a pretty good idea of what's going on. I'm just looking at the ideas of game aspects that people post and look at the logistics of them. If it is unlikely to occur, then I say so, eliminating anything that could throw us offtrack!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

ha! u used a pun " of track" anyway i think we defenitly agree that this will have something to do with trains. the details are just all up for grabs. theres no way to verify them till saturday

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

It is unlikely that any team will successfully guess the hint. (It's happened, on occasion, but nothing useful came out of it at the time.)

It is unlikely that any team will redirect balls from the ball return into their own goals. This is partially due to that being last year's game, but even then people said it was unlikely.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Now that we are 99% sue that it involves trains, we need to either find out what the trains can/will do, and if there are actual trains, or what the second hint means!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

i guess the only good that can come from bickering is that someperson here will have bragging rights when the game is realeased. and be able to say I TOLD YOU SO lol

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

But we can also get a good idea of the game and tell our team about it!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Trains, steam engine. I got it...

It's a water game. The person who converts the most water into steam wins. I is smart.:p

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Alright well I feel we hit that the thread hit redunacy (a little bit ago actually but I was waiting for something to happen).

See you all on the big hint in 3 days!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

what do you mean? This is the best part yet!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

you is smart!

i agree but i have nothing better to do at this time


.......

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

same here, got nothing to do for the night, although I think its safe to say that the next hint will be "All your FIRST game are belong to us." We're going back to the old poetic quotes. XD

Do you think the low color index has anything to do with this second hint? There are only 4 color values in the whole picture. No slightly different colors to make shadow tints or anything.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

So you mean like last year, when alliances were stuck if they had three frontfield bots?

Anyways, just like last year, you'd be operating at 1/3 efficiency. And it wouldn't happen in elimination if teams chose wisely. Probably the tasks would be similar enough that robots could reasonably do all three, but in order to excel at one they'd have to sacrifice efficiency on the other two.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

What if we're thinking to broad? what if its a hint to a piece in the Kit of Parts? I feel like they did that in a year past, can't remember though.

Anyway, what type of new part could be related to either of the hints?

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

But you forget. If you were tethered to a spot where you couldn't do anything, you'd be hopeless. If you were placed in a field last year that you didn't make your robot for, you could still succeed because you could push/kick the ball from wherever. Plus, you could travel over or through the tunnel to get to the side you needed. And if all else failed, you could ask your alliance members to let you go in the zone you wanted, unlike the "random" choosing of being tethered.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

2008, Game Hint 1 was an IR sensor sent to the teams. 2006, the game hint's original shape was sort of roundish like a ball.

In other years, it's been either vague or roundabout if it hit the KOP at all.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

It won't involve trains.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I never said teams would be randomly assigned to a tether point, or that any part of the game field would be randomized. Remember, the GDC tries to encourage specialized designs that work together.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I don't necessarily mean there will be actual trains, but an aspect related to them.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Locomotion was Little Eva's greatest hit, the logo is the 20th anniversary logo. Greatest hits from 20 years of FRC in one game!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Then if you badly needed to be tethered to a spot you tell your team, and if they can work better than you in that position, then try your best somewhere else, and hope for the best. That's why you always need a backup plan. If you can't play on the spot you do best at, be sure you can at least compete somewhere else at least somewhat well.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Already covered earlier in the thread... multiple times. Besides, that really tells nothing of the game, only explains what has already be said, that it celebrates 20 years of FRC

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Though this has been mentioned countless times before,
It could mean that this game takes the best of the last 20 year's games, and puts them into one super-game.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I know, I have read through every post in this thread and the 1st one. That is why I am certain that it has anything to do with locomotives after an afternoon of thought. You have to look at what I was replying too.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I just want to clarify, since I'm sure that someone else will make the same mistake somewhere along the line.

The triangle, circle, and square are not the FRC logo. Those shapes are also used in the FIRST, FLL, and FTC logos. What differentiates the different images is the text that appears underneath the shapes - which was left out of the hint.

That being said, we don't know exactly which logo this image is supposed to imply. It could mean that we will be utilizing elements from FLL and FTC, for all we know.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I agree. I think. Maybe.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

That's new! It could be a FRC'd version of a previous FLL or FTC competition!