Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Well, we know it either has trains or It is a mix of past competitions. I'm leaning toward the latter of the two, but I must admit, I'm still undecided.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I feel as though we are all missing a bluntly obvious hint. What's missing from the logo? FIRST. Instead of recognizing it as an acronym however simply take it as a word. What happens first in the game? Autonomous. No autonomous this year.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Nothing shows up on meta-data.

Have we tried to see if this image contains any other extra data? (Other than visual literal image). Like an embedded file or message?

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

keehun: It's not a .zip, .rar, or .7z. There's no alpha in it (or if there is, I messed up)

I don't think they're removing Autonomous. It would be too big a change.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I like this idea! It's something we probably wouldn't expect but fits with the logo clue!

So my guess is something with trains and/or linking without autonomous mode! :)

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I'm thinking it has something to do with gamepieces that link together in some way, and they have to be scored into a moving goal

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Just remember what they say about a immovable object that meets a unstoppable force...

An excellent (and kind of funny) example was team 117 last year. Part of their strategy was to wedge themselves into the tunnel so they couldn't be moved. However, I know there was discussion of how the field was moved as a consequence of teams trying to dislodge them. Just goes to show how there is never a truly immovable object

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I've been hoping for this all year. :D

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hmmm.....I don't remember that being one of 117's abilities, but I could be wrong.....I do remember hearing a similar story about 469, however...

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Yeah I remember 469 continued to get rammed in hopes they would move out from under the tunnel.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Well let's hope that no-one can block the path this year.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Alright this was previously metioned 3 alliances of 2 robots Red, white, and blue and the each have to manipulate a shape, cone,sphere,clinder and we have to make a maniplulator that has too be able to grab all 3!!!!!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

woops got the wrong team number... My bad

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I don't think so. You usually have to compete in FRC to get points, not create a shape.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Alright, excessively detailed hint and game analysis time! Before we launch into wild speculation, I feel that we should take a look at the factors that have historically determined past game elements.

FRC Game Morphology
By Joe Schornak

I believe that one of the most important factors of pre-Kickoff game prediction is analysis of previous games and previous years. FIRST has quite a bit of infrastructure set out already, and will likely try to keep as much of that the same as possible. For example:

-The Field. There are already a number of existing competition quality field kits in existence, and FIRST will probably not heavily modify them due to cost and labor. This field must also be able to fit a variety of venues, from sports stadiums to high-school gyms. Thus, factors like field size and shape, robot count, alliance number, and field surface will be dependent on the existing field.

-The Kitbot. The game must be playable by the most basic of robots. This has been a feature of past games; robots could herd trackballs and run laps in Overdrive, avoid opponents and push balls to the return slots in Lunacy, and play defense and score goals in Breakaway. While some game elements will be more complicated, to encourage robot variety and challenge veteran teams, the game must be fundamentally simple.

-The Matching System. FIRST's current team ranking and matchmaking system is designed for use in the two-alliance system. While I am not particularly well-versed in such things, I suspect that it would take quite a bit of work to develop and troubleshoot a three-alliance program. A one-alliance program could be possible, or simpler, but I consider a one-alliance game unlikely, for reasons I will detail later.

FIRST will also attempt to keep the field as technologically simple as possible, due to the difficulties that arise with more complex systems. All field elements will be gravity-fed or human-operated, and will be no more complex than the Breakaway ball return track sensor, which often led to technical difficulties despite its relative small size and narrow field of effect. The elements must also be sturdy enough to be bashed by robots for weeks on end, since they are re-used for each regional event.

Since it is well-known that the GDC develops the game using humans in place of robots, the game must be playable (at least basically) by students with minimal equipment. The game elements must also be simple and made of easily acquirable materials, so that teams can construct mock-ups for practice.

The game must also be exciting and easy for non-nerd onlookers to comprehend. Overdrive and Breakaway are good examples of this; the object of the game is evident, and the action is easy to follow. This ties into FIRST's goal of making the competition more accessible to a wider audience. This requirement makes very technical games unlikely. Additionally, since competitive games are more exciting and understandable to an audience, a single-alliance, non-competitive game is unlikely. Possible, but unlikely.

The game must also accommodate rookie teams with little to no previous experience. This ties into the kitbot factor above, but it also involves a skill and resource component. Teams that have yet to establish a strong mentor and industry base could find it more difficult than other teams to construct a large, complex robot or manipulator. The game must also not be entirely sensor-based; despite working on the problem constantly since last season, my team has yet to fully solve all the issues behind our camera, gyroscope, and accelerometer, only managing to achieve a fully-autonomous kick and goal last week. While there may be a reward for sensor use, the game must fundamentally be playable without any sensors.

Summing up:
This year's game will be played on a predominately flat field, to accommodate teams using kit-provided frames and wheels. There may be raised elements, but it will not be necessary to interact with them to contribute to the game. It will almost certainly be beneficial to do so, but the game will not hinge on them. The field will use the current basic setup, with alliance stations on either end of the field. The game will feature two alliances in tense head-to-head competition. The game object will either be easy to build or purchase (provided that Walmart doesn't run out this time), or it will come with the kit. It will be large enough to see from the other end of a gymnasium, and will be a color contrasting the primary field color. Bumpers will be required, although the game will not necessarily be contact-focused.


Now for some hint analysis...

Knowing previous game hint patterns, the "answer" to the hint(s) was likely discovered within the first eight pages of the hint thread. Thus, the first hint's primary answer is Locomotion. This has a number of possible interpretations. "Locomotion" would be an excellent game name. In fact, I believe that this is the true answer to the hint. It would be just like the GDC to reveal the game's name in a hint, knowing that the FIRST community would immediately discard such an audacious move as impossible. Unfortunately, little about the game itself can be drawn from the game's name. We must dig further!

I find it significant that the name of one of Little Eva's record labels was Dimension Records. This is a very "sciency" term, and just the sort of thing that the GDC would pick up on. Dimension can refer to a number of mathematical concepts, from multiple dimensions and their relation to location and time, to the volume of an object in space. While a fourth-dimensional game would certainly be interesting, I find more meaning in the latter, since all past FRC games have dealt with three-dimensional objects on a plane.

While intriguing by themselves, these factors become infinitely more intriguing when taken in the context of the second hint. Tetraman's discovery about the relation of the volume of the cylinder to that of the sphere and the cone is very significant, since it ties into something that FIRST has evidently used in the past. And behold! A cylinder is present in the original photograph! Despite these clear connections, I have no idea what these relations mean.

What about the symbology of the FIRST logo? The logo consists of three different parts, inseparably linked together. While different in shape and color, they remain unified by their common linkages. This is representative of the three-alliance system; three different robots and teams united together for a common goal! It also represents FIRST’s philosophy of coopertition; although they are different and perhaps at odds with each other, the shapes still work together and remain connected.

As always, the information provided in the game hints is far too limited to determine the game, or really anything relating to the game beyond its name and theme. However, I feel that with careful analysis of FIRST’s patterns in designing the game, the possibilities can be narrowed down to a range of potential games. While FIRST could release a third hint that will tie all this together, it is more likely that a certain Mr. Lavery will appear to sow mayhem.

Oh. He already did. Hm.

Best of luck in the coming season!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I like the Idea of combining FTC and FLL, however, some schools have FRC teams and FTC teams and some students have participated in FLL too. For those people that haven't, it would possibly be an unfair advantage.

At our meeting today, our team saw the hint and one of our advisers immediately thought of linking together (like previously mentioned several times), but he thought it could be for bonus points at the very end of the match. It may be too easy though.

But, don't count on anything I say to be remotely close to reality. :D

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Some people mentioned how FIRST was trying to hide the origins of the game hints by editing them slightly

Game hint #1: The GDC did do a good job of hiding the true origins of the pic. It took the FRC community ~ 2 hours to figure it out. Which is pretty impressive considering the technical know how and obsessiveness of some (most... ok all) of the posters on Chief Delphi.

Game hint #2: On the other hand, I really hope no one was confused about this hint. It is the FIRST logo for crying out loud, so what if they deleted the words. The GDC should have had no dreams about disguising this hint. This is a FIRST game hint for a FIRST event that used the FIRST symbol. I think they should have thought that we would make the connection to FIRST.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Vision targets with the FIRST logo. Maybe only the logo? We'll see in T-4 days.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

what if the game involes conecting and transporting all the first pices like making your own train:confused:

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

We've never used vision tracking before! If you can vision track this year, we will defenatly try!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I just had the worst thought ever. I imagined the field with a bunch of blocks, each with part of the logo on it, and you had to arrange them by pushing/pulling the blocks so that you create the FIRST logo. Similar to a puzzle in the forrest temple in the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (best game ever!!)

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

You will be surprised how much work WPI did for the programmers. If you look through the library, it has everything from edge detection to object recognition. You just have to call the functions:eek:

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

that would be interesting and hard:ahh:

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Last year we had the ability to track and aim at the target, it was a slightly edited version of the one seen in the default LABview template, I don't think we ever used it though. During Lunacy, we did eventually get working tracking of the trailers, but we scrapped the camera in the final robot design.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

My thoughts on the hint are:
--all three shapes will be used
or
--there will be connecting trains like the shapes overlap each other.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

You be right, the same thing was done in 2007 or Rack n Roll. One of the
diamonds plat with a 5 on was the hint.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

1) Little Eva did Locomotion.
2) OK, so the logo looks like a train.

Possible hint #3?
And, the picture that Dave Lavery was in was taken at the "Boxcar Willie Memorial Overpass" on I35. OK, I think the operative part of this is the "Overpass". When coupled with the boxcar aspect, it sounds like trains of linked things and we have to go over an overpass.

As another thought, Boxcar Willie died in 1999. Maybe some aspect of the 1999 game ("Double Trouble?") coming back? In that game, we had to lift the game pieces up (maybe to an overpass?) and we got more points the higher they got. Maybe we have to distinguish different shaped game pieces and lift them to different levels to get different points?

Just more grist for the mill...

Mike

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I was think the same thing earlier, but of a 3D logo. Stacking blocks to make the logo.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I hate to ruin the fun, but Dave has had that picture as his WAI for years. It means nothing in regards to the hints and game.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

what if when you connect the tran pices you have to do it in order so the first alliance to have three logos wins:confused:

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Here are the two hints again, just for reference sake. It does seem a bit odd that one is labeled "FRC 2011 Game Hint 1.jpg" while the other is simply "logo.jpg"
Hum. 4 days.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

FIRST hid a lot of metadata in the second hint in comparison to the first hint:

First hint:
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?b=3&refer...Hint%25201.jpg

Second hint:
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?b=3&refer...ets%2Flogo.jpg

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Perhaps it can mean that all three robots on the alliance will need to work together more tightly in order to complete the game entirely, instead of previous years when each robot did it's own thing to help the alliance...

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Just my thoughts, please no "but that has already been posted," I know, I just want to contribute some extra food for thought.

1. I agree with the idea that the things taken out of the pictures are important, if it had happened on one or the other, it wouldn't be important, but on both is too big a coincidence.
2. I doubt the people who say that a tube (like a column) would be used, because FTC's game pieces this year are tubes
3. I believe that the trains are the biggest red herring ever (although many ideas sound very awesome)
4. Going to the idea of things being taken away, the beta testers for the software said that in LabView one of the autonomous (I don't remember off the top of my head) was removed (Most likely unconnected to the game, but you never know)

My own opinions on some of the previously posted ideas:
1. I wouldn't mind having autonomous taken away (even though I enjoy programming it, it would leave time for troubleshooting other areas)
2. I would to have tetras back

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Now here's something interesting I figured out:
Take the aspect ratio of the hint, and divide it by the aspect ratio of http://usfirst.org/uploadedImages/Ro...t_Reversed.gif

The result:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...223)/(1019/919)

Notice the period for the repeating decimal...112998...an anagram for 1/8/1992, which happens to be the date for kickoff this year, and the year of the first game in FIRST. Probably just a coincidence, but pretty cool.

Edit: I am slightly confused by the Wolfram Alpha result though, because the decimal approximation doesn't show this repeating decimal. I may have misinterpreted, but a cool coincidence nonetheless.

Edit: After further research, I realized by period they mean period as in lamda, no in the grammatical sense.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Paraphrasing Dave Lavery:
"I love it when people tell me what I can not do"

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

what about if we have to build 3 different robot and each has to do a different function. Then we have to link together one of our robots with two form other teams. That would be links, locomotion, and having smaller robots like in the beginning of FIRST

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

notwithstanding, that's pretty cool

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

This is a design strategy, not a reason why the game is bad.

Honestly, though, I bet it'll just be the Greatest Hits game.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I'VE GOT IT!!!!!!!!!

IT MEANS THAT THE GAME WILL BE PUT ON BY FIRST!!!!
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Putting it all together...

The first hint. A greatest hits album, words removed, image reversed.
= The game name will be "Locomotion" and it will be one of FIRST's greatest hits
= The reversed image means "Locomotion" will be played reversed, with auto mode being the last 20 seconds or so of the match


The second hint. The symbol that represents FIRST, with the wording removed showing just linked shapes.
= You will have to "Link up" with something, in order to go into auto mode
= You can't do this first(The first wording removed) you have to do this last, cause if your not first, your last.

Take it to the bank.

































Don't.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

All three robots must have trailer hitches in front and back and create a train type chain.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

My first thought when I saw this hint was interlocking pieces, seems like that could be a little hard to do though.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I just got to thinking that image one -- locomotion -- trains linked together.
image 2, first logo - linked symbols, but no FIRST logo.

Perhaps the game is called something like "The Missing Link" or something like that.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Sorry Vision Tracking played a big part in three games

2005 Triple Play
2006 Aim High
2007 Rack and Roll

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

The shapes of the logo could always be like the carts of a train, you might have to hook up to the symbols or something like that.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

The logo is based on the Archimedes Principle.

The Archimedes Principle is the law of displacement of liquid.

The Archimedes Principle was discovered by Archimedes

He discovered this when he got into a filled bathtub and when he got in water split over the sides

The bathtub was filled with water.

Water game.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I am a firm believer in the thought that the game hints do not hide all of the rules, nor do they describe several parts of the game.

From reading the posts on this thread and the first game hint thread, the interpretations I believe in most are:

Game Hint 1:
The idea of locomotion has been too prevalent in the red herring and game hint #1 to be ignored. This does not mean we will be on a track, or linked up; but a much more loose interpretation of the word locomotion will be used to describe the game.

Also, I really like the idea of the reversal of the image signifying that autonomous will come last.

Game Hint 2:
I truly believe that first is just showing that the three alliance members will be working closely; not interlocked.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

This was about when I decided the thread had become dull and boring last night.

There are many ways to communicate one's thoughts and ideas. There are many ways to interpret what has been communicated. In deciding to ignore several pages in this thread, I based my decision on 3 separate frustrations linked together:

- the rapid-fire posts and exchanges over several pages
- the use of typos
- the shallow repetitive nature of the guesses

All of that would have better served its purpose in a private discussion.

Regarding thoughts of tethers and no autonomous... when thinking along these lines, are we keeping in mind, the meaning of the symbols and how they relate to the acronym of FIRST and what it stands for? When making guesses, are we thinking about the vision of the founders 20 years ago and how that vision has grown and developed over this span of time - moved along by the the program, the sponsors, and by the teams, themselves? The game will be rooted in 2011 and the advancements made over the twenty year span, while at the same time, it will have the potential to reflect back over the years in which the advancements have been made. It will not be going backward - it will bring the inspiration and recognition of science and technology - forward. You only have to look as far as FRC 118 to understand and appreciate the impact of this.

I'd take that to the bank.
Jane

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

This got me thinking. (Insert your favorite one-liner here.)

No, I do not believe it will be a water game, but if.... Wouldn't it be possible that the game would be one where three goals: one cone, one cube and one cylinder? These goals would need to be filled with scoring objects, like tennis balls.

Now, let's re-visit Eva. Instead of Extra Vehicular Activity, why not Extra Value Added. In other words, bonus points!
Maybe these points can be awarded if the number of scoring objects in the cone plus the cylinder equal the number in the cube.

This could also be done with two dimensional goals: a triangle, a circle and a square. That would allow the less experienced teams to also contribute.
Side note.


If the 2D goals had no rim or lip to keep the balls in, it would be like herding cats.:yikes:

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I have read "most" of this thread. And apologies in advance for any repeats.

(A) Three different shaped pieces (points assigned based on having the same or nearly the same number of each shape in the alliances' scoring): Hint #2
(B) Different hopper cars or BOXCARS: Hint #1 and Dave's picture at the Boxcar Willy Memorial Overpass
(C) Place the cars on one or multiple overpasses (again, Dave's picture). They would be secured and freewheeling (like roller coaster cars). They could be color coded for two alliances.

Arena design to make it easy to manufacture and maintain without costs skyrocketing. Scoring to be obvious like 2007 (okay some math 2^n), 2009 or 2010, and NOT like 2008.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

You can discount Dave's Willie Nelson Overpass picture. Thats been there as long as I have been paying attention to his posts.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I would cry if there were no autonomous. This year the stdudent talent on our programming team outnumbers the student talent on the manipulator team, heh.

I like the idea of an end-game autonomous, with prerequisites.

I think at this point we can only hope that the game matches the better parts of what some of us have come up with over the last couple of weeks from the hints.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Going to be a tractor pull.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

What about the reversed EVA being AVE, which is a high speed train in spain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE

Which I am sure travels mainly on the plain.

Saturday cannot come fast enough!!!!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

The game is going to deal with trains! the girl is Eva Boyd and her hit single is Loco-motion. Robots will probably have to latch onto carts and pull them through gates for points!

P.S. check out the First website for a week zero event in Nashua NH. We are playing on a 2011 field and the game design committee from FIRST will be there! (yes woody and folks)

*sponsored by team 151 and FIRST
contact Malcolm Paradise at paradisem1@gmail.com

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think chains may also be a big part of this year's game. little eva's best-known song the loco-motion created a kind of dance called the chain dance and the shapes in the first logo shows them being interconnected like a chain.

it's also very hard to find the history behind the first logo

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

It wouldn't have to be a triangle it could be a square field with an alliance on three sides of the sides and the control table on the fourth. That could be the square part of the logo, use tertras or cones as the game pieces (the triangle), and a cylinder that you stack the game pieces on, hence the colum in the 1st hint. :ahh:

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think the end game is going to have all three alliance partners hook up together (Locomotion, and the FIRST shapes that are hooked together.) They would have to do something, like drive in a circle or have the first robot pull the rest.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

That sounds like a great end game.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

It could be possible that we are using pieces from older games in each shape,for example, the tetras from triple play, the bins in stack attack, and the balls from aim high.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I am hoping for that but I'd rather see the return of the trackballs. Love those things.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I agree with you on that but i just don't see how FIRST would use them.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Sorry if anyone else posted this but:
My Software mentor and I was brainstorming and we think that the first logo will be on the game pieces this year. Also this year's main event is Ice Hockey. The reason why I bring up the Hockey thing is because last years event was Soccer and the game was soccer and for Lunacy it was NASA, and the year before that was Nascar. If it is hockey related then the first logo will be on pucks (any size) really, and at a beginning of a hockey game they line up in a chain and face each other. They will be connected like a train and "push" the pucks into the goal.


Please tell me someone else has thought of this as well?

Please reply!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Trackballs would be awesome as some sort of end game objective. Drop Two of them onto the field in a way similar to the kick balls from 2004 in the last 20 seconds of the match or so and that'd be one heck of a twist.

I can imagine it now... :D

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Can you imagine the storage demands for bins, tetras, and trackballs?!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think a cool game would be involve moving of pillars (like fence posts) to form a wall (hint#1) in order to prevent the opposing team from collection an objective (capture the flag style).
As for the FIRST logo in hint #2 I like the idea that it's just team members working together, but I think the literal "chain" inference is better. Maybe the posts can be linked together to make them harder to remove?

I'm a rookie mentor. Looking back at the 2010 hints I can't believe people figured that one out!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I'd be stoked if the playing element were traffic cones. Each year I give my robotics students a design task around a mock game for the week before kickoff. This year I made up a game called Cone Zone using standard 28" traffic cones.

http://www.vandenrobotics.com/bin/ConeZone.ppt

Other year's mock games are listed here.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

We had hockey in 2009 as well. That "1/6 gravity" surface sure resembled ice.

Pucks... 1999's game, anybody? (The big strategy item that year was a large octagonal platform that moved. If it was on your side of the field, your score was doubled. It was known as the puck.)

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Yes but that was supposed to represent the moon's surface! This would actually be ice!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I agree, trackballs are amazing. Volleyball with Trackballs is not, though. (Try spiking. Go ahead. Try it.)

I like the "moving pillars" idea, but there'd probably be some weird rules like "you can't tip the pillars" or similar, or you'll be unable to completely block off an area.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Alright, at this point it's unlikely I can say anything that hasn't already been said. So here's what I'm going with:

1. Train themed game
2. Heavily coopertition based
3. Possibility of a white alliance

They're probably ALL wrong, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :P

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

That would actually be a really great FRC game!

Doug, you get my vote to be a member of the GDC next year! :)

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

i agree with most of what onecoolc said except for the possilbilty of a white alliance. it would be to racist.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

What if they got bins big enough to store the other game pieces, but were also game pieces themselves?

That'd be nifty.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

a piece that can hold other pieces will probably be a score multiplyer,

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Has anyone considered shape of the field itself? or the fact that international is no longer in Atlanta?

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I like the whole balls scored in movable round, triangle and square goals thing. With hanging or elevating of some sort.

Logo-Motion

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

As for the competition being in St. Louis, I don't see any big connection.

The shape of the field might not change, but there might be specific shapes that are formed on the field in the shape of a triangle or circle that would be different then just a simple splitting the field in half.

So...Zone Zeal meets Raising the Bar?

I would see something like that but feels a bit empty.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Search for "1999 FIRST Championship Finals" on YouTube if you want to see robots interact with the puck. Specifically, one robot that was known for keeping others off of it.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

It's been a few years, but I remember one CA robot that went right over the puck at the start of the match, and a certain orange and black robot that curled onto the vertical poles on the sides much like many teams this year.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Feels like a flat version of Stack Attack. Lots of pushing and shoving and more about being able to bully around the field. FIRST fields changed very fast though, wow. I didn't know that the player stations were that arcane back then.

Maybe if the field had two steps. A 4" step in the shape of the Triangle and Square, and the circle was a 8" step.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

When I saw this, I thought: Locomotion => Trains => Train Tracks => Trackballs. It's a possibility.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I noticed that one of the items available for teams to get from FIRST Choice, from AndyMark, is an FTC Mini Kit. Maybe there is an element from FTC that we could consider in this year's FRC game. Just a thought.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Here’s my final (and only) wild and crazy guess about the 2011 game:

Game Name: Logomotion (not an original guess – others have suggested this name – it sounds cool to me!)

Originally, I thought there could be three moveable goals, similar to those built in 2002. One will be triangular. One will be circular (likely octagonal for ease of construction). One will be square. They will start in the FIRST logo orientation. Robots would be able to grab and move these goals around. There would be some advantage for positioning these goals in specific areas of the field. Hence – “Logo”motion.

However, now, instead of PVC goals, I'm thinking the three shapes could manifest in the form of 3 1999 pucks. These were castered carpeted platforms robots could drive on top of. Maybe the puck platforms would be set at 2 or 3 different heights - I'm thinking the triangle and square would be easy enough for robots to get on, but the central circular/octagonal platform would be taller and more difficult for robots and human players to reach. Maybe game piece scoring containers would be fixed at the center of each puck.

Just for fun, perhaps each puck would be fixed in its center to a pivot point and freely rotate. In fact, I can see this being a very cool field to pay homage to the 20th anniversary of FRC, as it would not mess with the chi of the FIRST logo – the shapes would always be in the same spatial relationship – triangle, circle, square.

There will be 1 big ball (perhaps the 2008 trackball), but playground kickballs will be the most prevalent game pieces. Each alliance has X game pieces in their alliance color - red or blue.

The big ball will start the match on top of the central circular (and tallest) puck structure. Small balls can be scored in any of the 3 puck goals, but you get double points for scoring in the center goal.

Human players get to be jump shooters like in 2004. Both HP's and robots can score small balls in the goals.

Capping your goal with the big ball doubles that goal's ball score for your alliance. Capping the center goal with the big ball doubles the ball score for EACH alliance's balls contained within the center goal (which are already worth 2x points). Awwww coopertition. Warm fuzzies.

The big ball can be freely descored at any time during the match.

There could likely be some other field element - we need more to the endgame, right? A king of the hill platform like 2004 would be fun. In fact, the center puck will serve as a stepping stone to this highest platform (but remember - it rotates...evil). Heck - add a hanging bar on top. Double heck - add steep ramps as a direct path to the KOH platform. Robots also get a smaller endgame bonus for being on the center puck at match end.


So there you have it.

Finally, some have suggested there will be 3 distinctly-shaped game pieces – one of each logo shape – 2005 tetras, 20-whatever balls, 2003 bins, for example. I hope FIRST doesn't go this route, as any type of triangular or square game pieces sturdy enough to handle the rigors of an FRC competition are likely either custom-built or hard/pricey to obtain.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I, too, think chains may play a major role in this year's game. As it would be difficult to chain robots together and operate them in unison, perhaps points will be scored through creating a chain of some sort of specialized game piece. Another idea is similar to the bonus round of last year's game; using some sort of arm, this time horizontal rather than vertical, to latch on to other robots to form a chain. Of course, knowing our dear friends at FIRST, it's very unlikely that it will be that easy.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

most logical answer ive seen yet

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

It's a work in progress, but if you are still in the thread, tell me what you think:

I added the idea of four of the PVC poles in the center goal be longer, thus if a robot gains hold and moves it to the right spot, it can block the opponent from scoring in that goal. The Triangle and Square platforms are 5" high and the circle is 1' high.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

You mean like the stationary goals in 2004--If it's rotated right, it's a backstop, and if it's wrong, it's an obstacle, but not an insurmountable one. Very interesting--and the match starts with the low side aiming towards the audience.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

correct! I figure that since the center goal is more important, giving a total of 2 free minutes to shoot at will would be too easy. Giving a robot something to do during that time. Would be fun I think, though very rough and tough and I kinda don't like high-struggle FIRST games.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I do like the idea but what would be a fun/interesting/thrilling end game on that field? Also, would there be any stairs or just the goals floors raised up.

Everybody do the.......
 

The first game hint was the album cover for an album by Little Eva. The FIRST logo could just be referencing the first track on the album, seeing as the company name has been removed from the picture. If this were true, then the first track on the album is The Locomotion. So are we possibly gonna have to pull a series of carts or maybe even go on a track of some sort?

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think this years game is going to be a game with columns that correspond with the shapes of the FIRST logo, and game pieces that have to be places around them. How it would be set up and all I don't know, but the column idea can have targets and there for camera use. Just what I thought of.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Ok, there should be a kind of thread lock so that to see the next post, you have to spend atleast 5 seconds on the previous post. People, Im begging you, READ THE PREVIOUS POST BEFORE YOU POST!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

What if the Triangle, Circle, and Square were scoring pieces(using pieces to score)

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

Someone mention that early in the thread, but is a good game idea.

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I also just found on a thread that the codename for the 2011 game is supposedly "Kokomotion" which I guess could relate back to "Locomotion".

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

I wonder what the koko part would refer to then

im going to google it!!!!!

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

it came up with stuff about Gorilla foundations

Re: 2011 FRC Game Hint #2
 

What did KokoEd tell Dave Lavery?