2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

what languages can the FTC robots be programmed in? LabView?
there is no FTC team in our area that we know of so i am tryin to find our option

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

I haven't done extensive research on the subject (and unfortunately the USFIRST website, which I assume would have the answer, is down), but if the setup is the same as regular VEX you have the options of RobotC, EasyC, or LabVIEW. This may be inaccurate, however.

I'm guessing that the following site will have the answer (when the server is back up): http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr....aspx?id=18758

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

thank you. do you have any experience programming the VEX bots with labview?

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Actually, it looks like I was wrong. A quick Google says there is no easy way to use LabVIEW with VEX. It looks like your options are RobotC or EasyC, at least one of which I assume will be with the software.

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Is RobotC or EasyC based off of C/C++ or something? Does anyone have an example of a program source code in that language?

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

From an FTC website: http://sites.google.com/site/ftciowacoaches/software

'The LEGO NXT bricks can run on one of three software programs: NXT-G, LabView or RobotC. However, to compete in an FTC competition, teams must use LabView or RobotC.'

I understand RobotC is text-based; NXT-G is a simple visual LabVIEW-type language but not allowed in FTC. Good Q for Wednesday: does the FTC programming rule apply, or can we program in NXT-G?


The Oregon FTC/FLL website ORTOP also has info. http://www.ortop.org/ftc/

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Is there any real advantage to having code on the minibot?

Because everyone knows that code just ads excessive weight.

Would a bot that would just start when it knows the pole is there work better than something that the drivers would have to control?

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

software, or code, has no weight. for any robot to move, it needs code. otherwise, to get it running would be direct control between motor wires and battery, which is illegal

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

The minibots have to completely autonomous. Also, the video shows the base of the poles as a obstacle to be overcome. Unless your minibot can somehow climb the base, it'll have to directly planted from the robot onto the pole and begin climbing.

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Are you sure? Why couldn't one simply leave it running forward, until it hits a switch, then drive in reverse? (Assuming they don't have to stay at the top)

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

that would take code. we do not have self programmed parts available to this competition. no code, no movement.

plus, that means your minibot would be running the entire autonomous and teleop match, leaving no battery life left

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Can you cite the specific rule that forbids this please?

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

I could not find a specific rule on this, so it MAY be legal, but if your minibot runs the entire match, you have no power when you need it to climb the last 10 seconds

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

the game manuel seems to be alittle on the vague side towards these minibots. how do we control them!

The FTC mini-kit from FIRST Choice, does that include 'everything' to make a minibot? If we use an NXT with this 'mini-kit', is it a functioning minibot?

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

not necessarily, you could have a three way switch that connects the battery directly to the motor forward, backwards, and off, and the main robot could turn it on, deploy it, it would hit the top, flipping the switch, sending it in reverse. No wasted battery, no code

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Exactly. The minibot rule section states you can use some common household light switches. Seems trivial to set up your deployment system to flip it on as it goes up.

Even if you left it always on, I don't think ~4 mins will kill the battery. Then again, I don't know the life of these batteries.

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

The NXT may be programmed in LabVIEW. There are libraries available, and it is easier to program then the cRIO. FRCmastery.com is the sister to FTCmastery.com. There are videos and help on both sites.

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

I was thinking about this same issue. Wouldn't sapping power from the main robot to power the minibot eliminate the need to place batteries on the minibot? The rule people on our team are still looking this up, but still would be a good idea if legal (minimum code if at all, and super light).

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

How would you manage to have the minibot continue up the pole once it is disconnected from the main robot?

Also, LabView is pretty popular for FTC. The FTC section on CD has several teams that use it, including mine.
Now what I'm worried about is access to the libraries for FTC and FRC at the same time. My team has tried to install (last season, not this season) FRC's LabView directly over the version for FTC. The install always failed over three labtops. We had to completely remove everything related to FTC's LabView before installing FRC's LabView. Hopefully this will not be too big of a problem because an "FTC Toolkit" is released to use with LabView which should contain all the libraries for FTC. You can get the Toolkit off of USFirst.org's FTC Programming section in the "LabView Resources" link." Tomorrow, I will try installing the ToolKit over this FRC's LabView and then try to compile our most recent FTC code. I will post any problems or successes here.

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

How is the minibot going to retain power? Super-caps?

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Interesting you should have this problem.
I know this was an issue for FRC 2009 and FTC 2008/09, but since then FTC and FRC have used different versions of LabVIEW.
I just yesterday installed FRC LabVIEW on laptops with the FTC LabVIEW.
Could you PM me with more details of your issue?

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

To answer all those who questioned how i would keep power to the robot, our team would use a really long wire and tether it to the robot. I thought I could make it like those old rc car power systems (except with no manual control). Just a thought.

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Minibots must not exceed a 12" x 12" x 12" volume.
Rule <G41>

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

That is what i was afraid of. It is a grey area in my book. Does the wire count as a part of the main robot or the minibot?

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

That wire would count as both.

The MINIBOT has to come OFF OF the HOSTBOT.

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Oh, then you're looking for a different rule:
<G19> after deployment, minibots must remain completely autonomous

<G22> Hostbots may not contact their alliance's minibot once it has climbed above the deployment line.

In summary, your minibot can not be powered by the robot once it climbs above 18 inches; its sources of mechanical power is effectively limited to stretched surgical tubing, the Tetrix battery, or inertia.

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Yeah, those rules basically kill the tethering idea all together. This forces the minibots to have battery packs/other bulky energy devices which weigh them down. Thanks for the input guys!

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Other rules also apply such as the Minibot cannot be wired to the "Hostbot"

So yes, completely autonomous is the only choice, without any driver interaction as all communication between the minibot via the controller via the NXT controller is illegal due to bluetooth being disabled (as I understand it)

EDIT: My browser open from yesterday and I didn't notice, sorry for bumping this AND reposting information already posted :/

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

As long as they fit with in the 12" cube and the 15 pound weight limit is there any reason a robot could not carry two minibots?

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

I don't know if two minibots on the same robot would be beneficial. If you build a system to hook it up to your alliance member's bot, then not only could both poles be climbed faster, but you get a "coopertition" point for sharing your second minibot. And my team uses FTC to train our rookies to get ready for FRC, so to shed light on the battery life, our battery usually is changed probably once during an all day competition. The NXT brick usually lasts all day. If you charge the Tetrix battery between matches, it will be fine. The NXT brick just takes double A's, so even if it runs out of battery (which is unlikely), it should be easy to change batteries. If you don't mind, I think I may digress for a second. Has anyone attempted to reverse-engineer the minibots from the video? I think I may have been able to build it on CAD, but I don't know how well it would work.

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

I dont know why everyone is stressing over how to program the minibot where in theory no programing is required. all the rules say is that the minibot has to climb without human interaction after deployment so all you would need is a simple electrical circuit with 2 limit switches to start and stop the bot

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

I was unable to install the FTC toolkit on the FRC version of labview. I am unsure what steps my team will take for the future, but at the moment it seems like we will just have our team laptops for FRC and our personal laptops for FTC.

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

I have programed several NXT controllers with Labview in the past. The process is fairly easy and requires the NXT Toolkit available here http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/4435 . This toolkit provide easy and intuitive functionality within Labview for controlling motors, and reading sensors off of the NXT brick. While programming should not be required for the Minibot if any team feels it would help them, then this toolkit is a great starting point.

Good Luck! ;)

Re: 2011 Logomotion Mini Bots
 

Just have a pull tab on the minibot that is connected to the main bot so that once the minibot is a certain distance from the mainbot the tabs disconnect and the motors start.