2011 Mini-bot?
 

How many of you are going for the Mini-bot at the end?

and why would you choose this option instead of playing the tubes?

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

Most definitely we are going for the mini-bot.
It won't take too terribly long for the entire mini-bot deployment to occur, and in the 20 seconds max it would take to do that, you could only get 2 more tubes at best considering you have to score them one at a time. and of top of that for those one or two tubes to be more valuable they would have to be able to finish off a FIRST logo.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

It's probably not the BEST idea to do an either or with the tubes VS minibots. I mean, the minibot deployment process is an end game strategy that yes, will bump you up to 40 pts, but it's a big chance to take when could be building up and stacking points from the game pieces as well.

If a team solely focuses on the deployment of the minibot and can grantee a score there, they should then think about refining their strategy into enhancing the score with tube placement or herding.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

I LOVE the mini-bots. Greatest idea ever. It's like a vertical Zone Zeal end game.

The part I don't really like is the strict limit on what the minibot can be built of.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

I agree with Tetraman, FTC parts only seems a bit silly.

The only issue I forsee with minibots is them being worth too much. If a team can win the minibot race, they are almost guaranteed the win.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

I don't think this is true, it is only a bonus round. Assume your alliance does win the first two positions in the race 50 pts (30+20) the other team still gets (assuming they have working minibots) 25 pts (15+10) meaning its only a 25 pt swing. Also assuming the perfects score, a Logo on the top row with ubertubes under each part is worth 36 pts... I think

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

2 comments:

1) FTC parts are not the only legal items.
2) Who says tubes and minibots are mutually exclusive? It ought to be possible to fire a minibot, grab a tube, and get it in place before the match ends.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

yep we are going for it
scoring a tube within that time would not be easy and the minibot has the potential to get a lot more points

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

I agree with this point 110%

If you want to win yourself a championship, then you better not plan on sitting around for 10 seconds and watching what happens.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

We think we can score 30 points faster than by hanging tubes. That's why.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

I think some people are missing that the End Game is 10 seconds and you ONLY have that time for deploying. If you so much as touch the tower with your minibot, it's a dead tower.

<G17> HOSTBOTS may not DEPLOY a MINIBOT. Violation: TOWER is disabled.

DEPLOYMENT – the act of positioning a MINIBOT on a TOWER. DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference during the END GAME. (Related form, DEPLOY, verb)

So it becomes, can you build a system and minibot that deploy and climb in 10 seconds (3-5, prefferably)? If so, which I believe is possible, it's definitely worth it. :cool:

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

30 POINTS
20 POINTS
15 POINTS
10 POINTS

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

The full FIRST logo on the the top row with an ubertube is 30 points.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

I don't think it should be looked at as a question of playing a minibot vs. scoring tubes - you can do both. One day into build season, you shouldn't be ruling out a huge component of game play altogether - you need to figure out strategies for the game and what elements you think are important before you decide which elements your team wants to focus in on.

That said, if you look at the points breakdown, the theoretical maximum for the tubes is 108 points, vs. 50 for the minibots. Getting three ubertubes on the top row of pegs is pretty unlikely, as is filling all of the pegs with the correct tubes, which brings down the expected actual tube score quite a bit due to the loss of multipliers. The minibots definitely have the potential to swing matches, and I predict that they will. I think minibots will be an important part of game play, and while not all teams will decide to build them, I think it would be silly to neglect them this early on in the build season because they have the potential to make a huge difference.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

Explain to me how you can score 30 additional points in 10 seconds, keeping in mind that, unless my thread is right, you start with 12 points on a rack, and you could bring it up to 36 with one more piece, all that you could realistically score in 10 seconds.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

Minibots play a huge part in adding a bonus to a team's score. I like to say that the end game period is like icing on the cake.

I mean, just to put this out there:

Say an alliance scores one ubertube in the automode.

Assuming that the alliance completes a logo with that row, you get 30pts already.

Having said that, it's just as an equivalent for a team or alliance all together to complete that logo set.

There's a ton of possibilities as far as point values for the equivalency of ubertubes, additional placements, logos and the minibot go.

In conclusion though, my initial thought is that the Minibot shouldn't be the SOLE focus of a team's robot design, because while YES completing the task gives you big points, something like this could happen:

The opposing alliance could starve out the alliance that relies on minibot action by collecting several game pieces and hording them in their designated zones where no long accessible.

At that point, there and then, you're stuck with just the points from the minibot plus whatever scoring piece you can maintain.

I guess in conclusion before I blabber more about strategy, minibot scores can be overcome when the game is played right (just like with finals last year when 469 got beat out with a good game play and bend of rules via loopholes!)

:P I strongly believe that robots can be built to fulfill both tasks though (and we will probably see it)

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

This year's end game is more important than last year's, but doing both well would be the best solution, IMO. Place tubes in teleop and race minibots at end game for maximum points.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

on the question of minibots does anyone know if you would be allowed to use compressed air and released it all to get the bot moving, and then let it work on its own. it is simmilar to a booster engine a a space shuttle

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

The real big question is, how many teams will be able to scrounge enough legal parts to build one? What if FTC isn't big or doesn't even exist in your area. Check out Lego Educational - kits are out of stock. :mad:

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

If you have at least one ubertube placed on the top rack, when teleop begins if two robots complete the logo you have 30pts right there with a little more than 10secs give or take depending on whatever arm capability they have.

With two ubertubes and a completed logo, you're already at 42 points.

And with three (totally possibly, but the likelihood? who knows): 54pts.

Although, teams will be impacted with how far the game pieces travel at the start of the teleop period (so collection bot or HP toss).

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

I thought the new FIRST Choice system had free FTC kits?

I don't have a Choice login name so I can't check right now.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

I wonder how many and how long they'll last with first come first serve.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

I'd just like to point out that amidst all of the minibots climbing, each alliance will still have at least one robot that is not involved in minibots which can continue to score tubes. Plus once the two minibots start climbing the hostbots can go in for scores.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

If one continues to score tubes, there is a chance for penalty due to inadvertent contact which must be taken into consideration.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

To be honest, something to be considered is that in all reality, we can guess how many points can be scored from the tubes/ubertubes, but like in previous competitions, we don't really know a range of how much will be scored. On the other hand, being successful in the endgame has a set number of points, which teams can test during build season. Even though you can't know whether your minibot will be fastest or slowest, i still think being able to finish the endgame will be extremely advantageous

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

When st. louis comes around the best robots will have minibots and mechanisms to score tubes because this game is "unbreakable" unlike last year.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

this game is unbreakable? what do you mean by that?

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

He means that there is no 469-style game-breaking application wherein one can build a robot that is essentially (but apparently not when it really, really counts on Einstein) unbeatable if the other team isn't also doing it.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

There is no one strategy that guarantees a win. 2002, move all three goals to one side and you win. 2010, control the balls as they leave the return and send them into goals. Those were breakable games.

2011 has no such strategy, not that I've seen yet.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

::rtm:: hmmm... what if our mini bottle was a jet pack? okok jks how about a bottle?

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

So obviously depending on the team, it might be hard to do both. IMO a successful team will be able to do both. So what do you sacrifice first? Minibot performance or scoring performance? Consider This.

An amazing robot which can score like crazy and has a wicked fast minibot....STILL needs another minibot. I would say in prioritization, make this first. And if you're sacrificing something else, make this AWESOME. That's a 30 or 20 points you could potentially score for your alliance in 10 seconds.

Now what do you sacrifice? Maybe you have to sacrifice the whole scoring thing, but I don't think so. Try something first like only being able to score on the middle/bottom rows or only bottom. You're still helping out scoring, but you're able to do everything your robot can do really well.

If you need to sacrifice scoring for a minibot, I would HIGHLY recommend putting some sort of gripper on your robot so you can be a game piece transporter. As stupid as this sounds, a good minibot launcher, defense player, and tube transporter, teams will fight for.

On the other hand. If you sacrifice the minibot, you better have a scorer that can make up for that (aka REALLY. FREAKING. GOOD.).

But yes, I think that both this year are the best strategy and whatever you put more time into will make your robot unique. Just like 2007, Ramp bots need something to go on them and scoring bots need a ramp bot.

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

you can't use a bottle becuse it is not in the list of parts that can be used as part of the minibot

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

That will be the interesting part about the alliance selection process this year. Clearly the teams that can hang tubes on pegs well and do the mini bot will place best because they can win qualification matches on their own. However, when it comes to choosing alliances, will it be better to choose another great hanger first, or go for that really useful feeder bot to deliver game pieces for your hanger?

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

My team is planning on creating a minibot for this year. Reason: successful deployment means ≥10 bonus points!

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

People continue to talk about using 2 minibots as a 50 pts swing. Assuming you have the best 2 (or even 3) best minibots on your alliance, you do get 50 pts; however the other team, as long as they have 2 working minibots, still get 25pts. That means a usual 25 pt swing, if not less (depending on the order they reach the top).

Re: 2011 Mini-bot?
 

Absolutely the mini-bot. It's barely feasible in any circumstances to justify even dropping ten guaranteed points.