How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

Unless a team plans on relying on others dropping game pieces, it will be necessary to go all the way across the field to get pieces from the HPs and then go all the way back over to score them at the alliance wall. So how many times do you think teams will be able to go back and forth to complete a round trip during a match???

My guess is 5 in a two minute practice period, but in-game I think 3 would be most realistic and 4 would be and good match.

My reason being about 10 fps on average so about 6 seconds for going across the field each way(12).

Then it will never be a straight shot b/c you go from center to corner and back. So I estimate an extra 5 seconds total (5).

Then a team must retrieve the game pieces and probably possess them somehow, 3 seconds a rough average, maybe 1 for those elite teams (3)?

Then teams must also place the pieces which I could see the elite teams doing in 2 seconds, but the average being about 7, but the extra time can be built into other teams trying to pin the elite teams (7).

12 + 5 + 3 + 7 = 27 seconds for a trip...

which works out to 4 remainder 12 seconds left. So if we consider an elite team and they have a great match, I'd say 4 and then time for Minibot action (if that is their strategy). Although I think most teams will land in either 3 trips in a good match, 2 in a poor/well defended match, and many may find themselves making tradeoffs to either complete a logo or go for the minibot at the very end.

Of course, this time-task analysis is all considering that other teams aren't conveniently dropping tubes, but it can reveal a lot about what an individual robot can realistically accomplish on its own in a single teleop. Or maybe that a viable strategy is to have one robot shuttle/ferry pieces from the feeder to the alliance zone to facilitate "hangers".

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

I would say at most 18, since thats how many game pieces there are.

You also have to remember that Woodie said (and the manual confirmed) game pieces can be thrown over the driver station wall.

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

You also discount defenders, and robots that are capable of "throwing" pieces.

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

To me it seems more optimal to have 2 shuttles, assuming the robot will be fast enough that it can evade a single robot, then if you are double teamed there would be another shuttle to run pieces to the hanger.

I am confident this will get in at least I don't know 5-6 trips in? Maybe 9 if its a good game.

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

Lets see:

At our max speed of 16 fps, so 3.75s across the field ideally (Using 60 feet across the field)

Plus interaction with other robots (probably 5 seconds on average)

Plus picking up the game piece (4 realistically)

Plus Driving back

Plus Placing the piece (Hopefully 3 sec?)

Does 24 seconds sound good? These are realistic, average values also. Nothing for best and worst match yet...

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

What we need to figure out is how much interference a defending robot can create. If its around 5 seconds each one way, then that lowers a robot's efficiency by almost 30%.

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

As posted on my teams forums earlier by a team member:


A few thoughts:

To get a perfect score, each team on the alliance would need to get and place a tube every 18 seconds (assuming 15 seconds at the end for minibot missions).

If you look at each robot placing a tube every 29 seconds, the best raw score is a 28 (6 hi, 5 medium)

In our human player simulations, the best match we turned in was 9 tubes. ( 9 tubes is each alliance robot placing a tube every 35 seconds). The best raw score for 9 tubes is 24 (6 hi, 3 medium).

If we can't do a high placement, the best score we can achieve in teleop mode with 9 tubes is 15 (6 med, 3 lo). This is the same score as placing 5 tubes, all hi. at 63 seconds per tube.

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

Human players can throw over the player station.
<G57> During the TELEOPERATED PERIOD, FEEDERS may enter LOGO PIECES onto the FIELD by using the FEEDING SLOTS or by throwing the LOGO PIECE over the top of the FEEDER STATION wall. LOGO PIECES may not be thrown around the side of the FEEDER STATION wall. Violation: PENALTY

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

Yea. I kinda wish this rule wasn't there, but it is.

This allows for teams to pick up from the floor, not needing to always to head to the player station...but the biggest thing is that this will lead to Redabots stealing the thrown tubes from the Blueabot human player. Risky move, but it will help cut down on time.

Human players will have to train in throwing techniques so they don't accidentally throw a tube into the opponent's scoring zone. That would be very bad.

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

Also, will the tubes be placed back into the field of play where exited?

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

Yes, see <G35>

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

I think there's an additional benefit of a smaller time frame of your opponents can be alerted to your attempt to receive a logo tube. This probably requires your feeder to be able to not just accurately throw but to be able to time. Hopefully teams will be able to provide a rough estimate of how their robot can go so the feeder will be able to time no matter what robot it is.

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

You might want to double check your math... specifically, with regards to <G66>:

With that rule, the point values can be a lot higher... and that's what most teams will attempt while placing their tubes.

Also, don't forget the Ubertubes! In addition to scoring points for themselves, they score points for anything placed over them, per <G65>

So, if we take your best case scenario above:
Add 3 Ubertubes to the top row and line up the logo's 3 times, you'll end up with a total of 82 points!


The question posed in this thread is a very important one. The number of tubes placed has a huge impact on what portion of the game is most important. Placing a minibot can score up to 30 points... in order for a single robot (with no help from its alliance members at all) to get that, it has to place an uber tube and 3 regular tubes that form a logo, all on the top row.

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

> You might want to double check your math... specifically, with regards to <G66>:


Please note that the original calculation was a "Raw" teleop score, without adjustments made by Ubertubes or making logos.

Of course those increase the total score (the Adjusted teleop score), but they seem to do so in a linear fashion with respect to placing tubes on the top, middle, or bottom.

Re: How Many Round Trips Can a Team Make?
 

Is it legal to put more than one logo on a row? If it is, this math makes sense. If not, then 36 is the max you could score on the top row. Which is it?