Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

We figured we could use a 1x8” piece of wood and get 3 noodles on it to cover all of our major metal. After all of the comments about ramming we got scared that we should be really well protected.

We downsides to a 1X7” piece of wood to get the minimum 6 in of bumper needed to have a two 2.5” noodles on it.

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

I think y'all need to re-read <R07>. The 6" minimum is length per segment (<R07-D>); the maximum of that dimension is as long as the robot. You need a 3/4" thick x 5" tall piece of plywood as bumper backing (<R07-F>).

I'd also be cautious about the plywood in the corners--because you're changing segments, you may run afoul of <R07-C>'s corner/segment joint-filling rules. In the past, it's been much clearer about whether or not hard parts in corners is prohibited (it was in the past, not sure about this year).

Note that these only apply to the bumpers that are out in the Starting Configuration. Ditto for the extra bumper weight allowance.

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

If we need bumpers from 1” to 7” that means we need a 6 “ piece of wood. A 1x7” piece of board is 6.25” high so we were going to cut that to length instead of cutting plywood by length and width.

Our bumper design is single pieces per side. So we shouldn’t have an issue with the minimum length.

In the corners are we only supposed to have wood adjacent to metal? Meaning we would have a gap in the backing of the noodles?

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

The bumper rules are certainly extensive! Most of the bumper construction is set out in the rules... There is also a required "bumper zone" so that all teams have their bumper at the same level, making tall bumpers less necessary. The bumper zone is 1"-7" from the ground... so the bumpers (which have to be 5" tall) have 1" of leeway. It's hard to tell, but using the 8" wheels as a reference, I'd estimate your bumpers may be too high for the bumper zone... maybe the plywood is just the wrong height though?

Yes, the wood should only be directly backed by metal - if the sides of your robot are 27" and 37", the wood should be a 3/4" thick piece of plywood with dimensions of 5" tall and either 27" or 37" in length. It's also required to protect the corners, a good way of doing this is putting a 5" long piece of pool noodle inside the fabric of the bumpers at the corners. We normally put this vertical 5" long noodle on the ends of the 27" long segments, but it doesn't matter where they go. :-)

I'm certainly impressed with the time/energy and CAD going into this from a rookie team... I really wish we competed at the same regional - maybe championships! ;-)

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

Quoting for emphasis and great justice.

Some years it was allowed, some years it wasn't. It's been quite inconsistent historically.

This year, a fully overlapped 90° corner with 0.750 in plywood would have a dimension of approximately 1.060 in between the outermost extent of the "hard part" of the bumper (the plywood corner) and the corner of the frame perimeter. That violates <R07L>, which stipulates a maximum of 1 in.

What makes this really insidious is that not every corner that overlaps would run afoul of this rule. Other angles or incomplete overlap might still satisfy <R07L>.

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

This is looking much better... It still looks like you have two problems with your official BUMPER-- the plywood looks >5" tall-- since each noodle is 2.5" the plywood should just fit behind the noodles. At the corners, the plywood should not over lap-- this is not permitted.

I would recommend submitting a formal Q&A question about your design, asking both about the obscuring of your official team number on your official bumper as well as how G48 might apply.

<G48> Strategies aimed at the destruction, attachment, damage, tipping or entanglement of ROBOTS, MINIBOTS, or HOSTBOTS are not in the spirit of the FRC and are not allowed. Contact with another ROBOT or HOSTBOT inside it‟s FRAME PERIMETER is not allowed. Violation: PENALTY, plus potential disablement and YELLOW CARD

<bluebox>High speed accidental collisions may occur during the MATCH and are an expected part of LOGO MOTION™. ROBOTS place mechanisms outside of the BUMPER PERIMETER at their own risk; no penalties will be assigned for incidental contact with such extended mechanisms. For example, use of wedge-like mechanisms to flip ROBOTS would be considered a violation.<bluebox>

It says: "ROBOTS place mechanisms outside of the BUMPER PERIMETER at their own risk" Does this mean that you assume the risk of being assessed a penalty if another bot pushes you into the zone via only contact with an extension? Hard to say.

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

It's still there:
Now, you have to read into this that the "maximum horizontal dimension" means the dimension of the portion of the frame that the bumper is attached to.

If you use a non-rectangular frame (e.g. x-gon where x>4), the maximum horizontal dimension of your robot is longer than the length of any one side.

And if you do have a rectangular frame, this could be read that on the long sides, the wood can be no more that the length of that side, but on the short side the wood could be longer than the side, up to the length of the long side or the 1" hard part rule (<R07-L>), whichever is less.

However, 2010 rule <R07-B> read the same way as this year's rule, so I would assume anyone asking the GDC would get the same answer as in prior years - the wood segment cannot extend beyond the length of the frame segment.

Incidentally, the quasi-bumpers on the outriggers do not have to conform to <R07> - you could make them 3-noodles high if you wanted, or have hard parts around the corners. They would only have to comply with other rules about your extensions not harming another robot.

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

JJ,
Please PM me and I can help walk you through the bumper rules. We can either further this on email or you can give me a call after that. The bumper rules are a little difficult to understand at first.

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

That "maximum horizontal dimension" rule is still a bit messed up: imagine an isosceles triangle with one side just under 28 in, and two sides of 40 in. That fits within the permitted "maximum horizontal dimensions", but has a larger horizontal dimension than anything specifically described. In fact, geometrically, it would be extremely reasonable to say that the maximum horizontal dimension of a "28” x 38” (71.12cm x 96.52cm) rectangular space" is about 47.2 in (the hypotenuse). And even if you define it in terms of the current robot (rather than the hypothetical—this is not clear in the rule), you can still take a diagonal measurement that would seem to define the maximum horizontal dimension.

As for plywood extending into the corners, <R07C> seems to permit it ("by beveling the ends between adjacent segments"), and Figure 4-2 appears to support this interpretation (at low resolution, so at best it's inconclusive). <R07K> does not disallow it (since the "unsupported" portion of bumper backing is less than 8 in—a key difference from last year's rule which required the entire length of the bumper be supported by the frame perimeter). (<R07B> doesn't seem to be a factor here; were you thinking of something else?)

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

Cool so we can mount our bumpers so that they go from 2" off the ground to 7" off the ground. if we have a 1" leeywat and the actual bumper is only 5" tall.

Also we will get the corner fixed so that there is no wood overlap.

We have few funds so we are trying to be as precise with our virtual work as possible before we start cutting and buying. need to minimze waste. If anyone has some fundage they could spare the kids in south Philly would be very appreciative.

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

See Team Update #6 for clarification to <G32> (Zones) and <G33> (Lanes>:

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

they would not get a penalty, the team that pushed them in would

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

joek,

Check out the changes to <G32> and <G33> in Team Update #6. In a nutshell, <G61> does not apply to these rules, meaning that if your ROBOT crosses into the opposing LANE or ZONE you will get a PENALTY, regardless of how/why.

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

:confused: I know this is kind of random for this thread but, I made this account recently and I was wondering how do I post new threads and whats not :confused:

Re: Are extensions with bumpers after the start of the game legal
 

we believe our strategy, shown below still works with the latest rules update.

Also since we don't believe any robot will be able to push us into their scoring zone we should be fine.