Re: Team Update 4
 

I dont get how that was on topic at all....

Re: Team Update 4
 

I'm surprised it took FIRST so long to issue this clarification, it had seemed to me like FTC or raw materials was the intent all along.

That said, I think FIRST really missed their own "culture change" boat with the FTC limitation. As Dave wisely said,

Making FRC teams buy FTC kits sells maybe 1000 FTC kits, and ultimately doesn't change the status quo. Chances are most teams that want to help with other robotics competitions are already involved with things like FLL, FTC, Vex, Botball, BEST, etc. I would be willing to bet that most FTC teams are associated with FRC teams. On the other hand, most Vex, Botball, BEST, etc teams probably aren't. Wouldn't it have been neat if part of the challenge had been to reach out to one of those other competitions, and get them involved in the FRC challenge? If you've ever done an FRC robot demo at an FLL/Vex event, there are so many kids who are fascinated by the "big robots." It would've been awesome to reach out to those teams. I understand there might be difficulties implementing this... there are always are! Who knows... FIRST might've even got a couple new FRC teams!

2 cents. As always, you've gotta keep rolling with the punches. :)

Re: Team Update 4
 

Words cannot fully express my disgust at the real reason for the Minibots.

Don't get me wrong. I love the concept. The execution? Well, I'd say something, but most of what I'd probably say falls under the "unprintable" category.

Re: Team Update 4
 

EDIT: Most of what I have been thinking has already been said and will leave it at that.

Though I do wonder at how the minibots supposed to expand the FTC program. The build season is certainly not the time to help start an FTC team, so teams either already have local FTC teams to work with, or they will be building their own minibot with their own materials. Either way, I see no expansion in the program.

Re: Team Update 4
 

It really disgusts me that I'm forced to use the crappy music player on my Droid X...why couldn't Motorola just use Apple's player in their code instead?

You get the point...

Re: Team Update 4
 

The updated clarification of <R49> is a breath of fresh air for the controls community. Kudos to Kevin Sevcik for bringing it up this morning and for the GDC to make a common sense clarification.

Re: Team Update 4
 

No offense gang, but aren't we getting a bit carried away here?
The minibot is an opportunity, a part of this year's game, a part of FIRST, and most importantly, a way to involve younger kids in this program we call FRC.

The Chairman's Award and other such FIRST initiatives include outreach and spreading not just the idea of FIRST, but STEM education as a whole.

Is the complaint about money? Or the fact that some of you including us are heavily invested, using VEX/IFI components as a vehicle for your other competitions? What about 2009 when we had to buy glassline FRP for just one season, so far?

Re: Team Update 4
 

Many teams that I know and am aware of, are familiar with and participate in some of these other programs. Let's not make assumptions about teams and other programs, esp. in areas/regions where there is an abundance of options to select from. Some teams spend their fall semesters competing in and supporting other programs.
--
For those who are using the pronoun, I, with regard to what an FRC team will or will not be called or who will or will not be submitting a Chairman's - has it come to the point that you are forcing 'I' into the meaning of 'team'?

Jane

Re: Team Update 4
 

Not quite. This is making FIRST more about Lego. "And their kits" is the key phrase.

For awhile I thought FIRST actually went out of their way to make sure that politics doesn't affect teams and team members, lest the organization un-inspire them. But not now. They're literally saying that if you love FIRST, give these guys money and use their product. They have tied their nonprofit organization and lofty ideals straight to an inferior product.

The disgusting thing about this to me is not just the politics. Any organization has political battles that will make your stomach churn. What pisses me off is that this political battle is at the expense, literally, of every FRC team out there. I feel it's our job as mentors to shield the students from this bull, to make sure they're inspired and to carefully skirt them away from the messes of any large scale organization. But at this point, it's too $@#$@#$@#$@# hard.

What the hell am I supposed to tell a student who asks why we can't use aluminium that has a pre drilled hole in it? What am I supposed to tell them when our Tetrix motors smoke within 5 minutes of use when we have perfectly good Vex motors sitting on a shelf unused, and non Tetrix catapult designs derailed by Update 1? How can I rationalize all of the very, very public flaunting and politics of the FIRST organization that they catch wind of? I'm out of answers - and these are not rhetorical questions.

Seriously, I'm stumped. I'm here because the ideals of FIRST are things that I love and want to push for more than anything else - but FIRST themselves keep making it harder and harder.

Re: Team Update 4
 

I don't know, I mean the intent was clear, but the fact that they actually went out and said it.....I just hope that whoever runs PR up there is getting on it to fix it.

Listen I understand the reason why FTC is limited the way it is, and I'm fine with it, but using that as an excuse (I'm not saying FIRST has, but supporters of there push for exclusiveness of Tetrex have), for why only one companies products may be used it not alright.

All I know is this week's episode of FirstTunes has a major agenda change and a need of some new guests......

Re: Team Update 4
 

And they also added an additional 1.5'' onto the length of the pegs for the Team Field Elements...too bad we already completely assembled our 3x3 peg board according to the old drawings...

Re: Team Update 4
 

Yes we are. The issue of money and parts was covered more or less 'ad nauseum' in another thread.

Regarding FTC/FLL versus some non-FIRST program -
- nowhere was it said you had to take a loyalty oath to FIRST do this year's game.
- nowhere was it said you had to abandon your other outreach efforts
- nowhere was it said you had to give up all the other robotics programs you enjoy promoting.

It was simply asked that at a minimum you put a tetrix motor or two and a few more parts together to climb a pole. And if you are feeling in a good mood maybe commune with the FLL and FTC folks. But if you don't want to support FLL / FTC that is fine, just build the minibot, send it up the pole, and don't worry about it.

If you look around you will find some very well known people that are big players in other types of robotics programs, and other types of STEM programs. If they do not have a problem with what is going on, then why should the rest of us ?

Re: Team Update 4
 

So does that mean that the aluminum that we got in the FTC kits from the FIRSTChoice thing are illegal to use now?

Re: Team Update 4
 

I'm going to attempt to split the middle here.

Yes, I also thought of quite a few minibots that are presently illegal.

Yes, I can think of many more ways that the minibot race could be made a more interesting challenge. (Paging the IRI planning committee......)

No, I'm not surprised FIRST made this change (beyond the fact that I'd forgotten about items that met this criteria, e.g. the Vex aluminum kit).

No, I'm not wild about the implications highlighted on this thread (see Dave Lavery's thread--grow the pie).

No, this change is not going to stop us from building a minibot using our FTC mini kit from FIRST Choice, which we acquired for under $10 in shipping and in reasonably short order courtesy of the fine people at AndyMark.

On the bright side, if you're willing to look strictly at the engineering challenge presented and can ignore all this other stuff, this year's edition of That One Rule The GDC Put In The Manual That Frustrates Everybody On ChiefDelphi is still the easiest one to manage in ages. We'll have eight months to talk about vision to FIRST...but four weeks to complete this build season.

Re: Team Update 4
 

Those parts are Tetrix, so they are usable. Chop them up if you must. Save the rest for donation to a worthy cause.