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Team 1625 Minibot FIRST Run
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LOBSTER??:yikes:
Needless to say: Fast as hell. |
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How much time did it take to reattach the part that went flying :p
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Hmmm care to share? :)
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I also believe that is the battery in the lower left corner. |
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another puzzle...
what makes it pop halfway up....? |
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nice
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Custom wheel/rollers? So much for idea that 4" wheels are necessary, huh?
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Hmm. I do not believe this. Put the boat anchor, uhh.... I mean battery on it, then see how fast it goes up (or if it goes up at all). :rolleyes:
And I see you not wearing your safety glasses! ;) |
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Sad thing is, this could be legit knowing Winnovation. |
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My first thoughts,
Where is the battery? What does it weigh? What does the person on the left of the screen have in his hand? o and WOW THATS FAST. |
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Actually, now that I think about it, I would not be surprised if Winnovation's minibot climbed this fast! :p |
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Winnovation rejects your reality and substitutes its own. ;) |
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DANG!!! That guy in the gray IRI shirt sure is good looking!:)
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I'm seriously going to worry the next two weeks about this one. Anyways, awesome minibot guys. Can't wait to really see it when you guys actually unveil everything.
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Actually, there IS a rule that says you need to have a battery:
<G19> MINIBOTS must remain completely autonomous and move up the POST solely through electric energy provided after the start of DEPLOYMENT by the permitted, unaltered battery and converted to mechanical energy by the permitted unaltered motors (and associated, appropriate circuitry). Quote:
<R91>The MINIBOT may not exceed a 12” x 12” x 12” volume and weigh no more than 15 lbs. MINIBOTS will be inspected for the volume constraint by being placed in a five-sided box with internal dimensions of 12" x 12" x 12". If the lid (the sixth side of the cube) does not seat properly, the MINIBOT does not pass this part of the MINIBOT inspection. This size constraint on the minibot remains in effect throughout the match; this was stated by the GDC in a Q and A forum post: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=16288 This would seem to preclude tethered batteries. |
Re: Team 1625 Minibot FIRST Run
ok but does that mean that the battery has to be attached to the minibot by zip ties or can it just be hanging from it?
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the 12x12x12 box rule still applies so the battery couldn't dangle much
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Awesome video! And an awesome precedent to set - this video will serve as inspiration to anyone who wants to push their minibot to the max this season!
What I saw/inferred: * Two motors, with transmissions removed/modified/replaced with custom transmissions that are lighter, more efficient, and geared to be faster. * Custom direct-driven wheels/rollers that I'm sure are almost weightless (they can be tiny because of the faster gearing). Going out on a limb...lexan and split surgical tubing as the tread? * Just enough structure and electronics to hold it all together and get it to go. In a "spec racing" competition, he/she who builds the lightest, most efficient machine wins. (Or he/she who cheats but doesn't get caught wins, but I'm sure that isn't the case with this crowd!) |
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I assume that, when the time comes, Winnovation's minibot will simply teleport to the top of the pole.
And then dance. |
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Hmmm,
Based on the sound from the video, it seems like your storing energy from the motors prior to the start of the video. This would infact give you that crazy fast launch, however, because of Team Update 5, you cannot start storing energy until after deployment starts. So yes, your minibot climbs fast, but you need to increase the time to include the time it takes the motors to wind up. |
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No, 1625 isn't cheating in this video - just because it's really fast doesn't mean a rule was broken.
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Also, according to the dynometer tests posted on this thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=89072 there is a 60+% output power bump (with 12V regulated supply) available by removing the gearbox. Moreover, the motor with gearbox is about 210 grams, without about 130. |
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just a guess on how this might be able to happen and still be in the rules. Once the deployment starts the motors somehow pull some surgical to give it elastic potential energy. Start filming and release that tension and up it goes. I could be completely off but that's one way i can think of doing it.
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edit -- nvm -- I totally forgot the gearbox itself contains the gears needed to make a custom gearbox -- just be careful since the pinion gears are fragile.
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I heard Winnovation use a win pump. They hook both motors up to the Win pump. Right at the start of the deployment. The Win pumps then fill the robot until it is completely full of Win. The excess Win then bursts. They direct the Win through a nozzle that transmits the win and turns it into veritcal motion. Who said innovation was dead on the mini-bot race?
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Hahaha I had to
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Is it legal?
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In the corner of their website, it says, "A Win Pump Company". :p Please record the conversation you have with them as I am sure the advice you will get will be quite priceless. |
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HEY! Is that the height you are planning on deploying your minibot??? Because if not, then I think you are under a false illusion that your minibot goes up in 1.75 seconds. Thanks
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Even if they deployed from the very bottom of the pole, this is still the fastest mini-bot posted on the net thus far. |
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Thanks ESP |
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Going on a wild guess here (Someone from 1625 please correct me if I'm wrong) but It looks to me that the Mini-Bot in the Video is being held right around 18" from the Platform. Also, it looks like there might even be a black line on the pole right above the mini-bot, but the video isn't clear enough to tell. Your team may be different, but I know none of our prototypes, nor any others I've seen climb the tower with the Sort of speed that 1625's Mini-bot does. |
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With the default gearing (1:52), we climbed the pole at 4.1 seconds. We tried gearing the minibot up 2:1 -- and took off exactly the same amount of weight that we added with the gears.
Our new time: (drumroll please!) 4.5 seconds. Drat! Time for more tweaking! |
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Be skeptical all you want, but where you settle for speed is up to you, it takes alot for us to be happy with something. |
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I'm just having issues with my MINIBOT team because it seems that variations on weight and gearing keep resulting in about 4s of climb time no matter what we do, and I'm about to brain myself on a wall in frustration! |
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I'd take a team that had a remarkably consistent minibot over a team that tore their hair out for weeks trying to shave off a second, falling off the bar half the time. Settling is bad, yes - never do it... as long as you don't backpedal. Don't let the greats discourage you! |
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That said, someone mentioned something about the HOSTBOT not being able to deploy the MINIBOT, and that has me worried that I've missed something... The HOSTBOT is permitted to push the MINIBOT onto the tower pole, right? |
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(Sometimes I am paranoid that I have missed some nuance that isn't nuance at all, and that everyone else got it because it is completely obvious, but for some reason we've missed it!) |
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ya, considering the only way the minibot can move up the tower is "solely through electric energy provided after DEPLOYMENT by the permitted, unaltered battery and converted to mechanical energy by the permitted unaltered motors ", I don't really see how this is possible without breaking a rule/having all necessary components on board...
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The potential energy (for a minbot weighing 1.5kg) at the top of the tower minus the potential energy at the deployment line is about 34.4 joules 2.337m X 9.8m/sec^2 X 1.5 kg = 33.4 joules According to this thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ht=motor+specs the motors run at about 21 watts w/o gearbox at 14 volts. I believe that informtion is trustworthy and it is well documented, so I will trust it. With two motors thats 42 watts total, so in theory, the bot could go up the tower is under one second. The video shows about 1.1 seconds from deployment line to top. It's Possible I am curious about what looks to be the turbocharger kicking in partway up the tower, that is odd. Could just be the angle of the view that makes it seem to go faster. |
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We were thinking of having Goku teleport our minibot the top....but he's too busy
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Well it seems that our mini bots 3.5 sec time isn't good enough anymore.... o well time to add the second motor
Would it be possible to get a 1080p version of the video with slow mo and freeze frame action? Plus if it isn't to much trouble could you guys post the plans for the flux capacitor you guys also built? |
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At least it didn't get stuck at the top!
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I for one would really like to thank 1625 for posting this video. Around Jan 14th, a similar design (I am guessing) crept into my head but seemed too out-there. They could have waited until their first event, and just blown everyone away. Instead they have inspired my team to get more creative and aggressive in our mini-bot designs.
*************************** Anecdote Time: In high school, I competed in Supermileage in Indiana. The first year my team competed, we got 169 mpg for our best run. The winners got over 500 mpg. The next closest was 300 mpg, so we (being the cocky HS kids we were with bruised egos) were conviced that the winning team was "cheating". 6-7 years later, my old high school placed second with just over 1200 mpg with a perfectly legal design. That was an especially good year, but most good teams could get 900 mpg or better. Nearly 2x what we considered "cheating" level performance. When you call others "cheaters" for doing exceptionally well at things, it can really hurt their feelings. It also makes them less likely to share future successes. This is a loss to the community. ************************** Again, nice job 1625, and thanks for sharing. I for one was quite humbled yet quite inspired. This 3 second video resulted in my first sleepless night of the season. |
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I did show this video as inspiration to my MINIBOT team... I'm not sure if they're inspired or just overawed, but it certainly gives us all something to shoot for!
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I believe this video has inspired a lot of people, thanks!
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every year 1625 inspires me in some way last year the 6 wheel swivel 2 years ago the super cell hook this year 1.5 second minibot good job 1625 winnovation :)
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You have to remember, defense is going to play a big role in minibot deployment.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that 1 second, 1.5 seconds, or 2.0 seconds to climb the tower isn't going to make a whole lot of difference compared to the total amount of deployment time, which will likely include positioning your robot after defensive robots have been slamming into you right up until the start of the end game. IMO a robot that can accurately and quickly get a minibot onto the pole from a less than ideal starting HOST-bot position will be the consistent winner of the race. |
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I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that Winnovation's deployment mechanism will probably work flawlessly.
They aren't exactly the kind of people that would build one of the fastest minibots and then cheap out on the deployment. |
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I wasn't commenting on their deployment mechanism. Just trying to play down the importance of shaving 1/2 second off the climb time of the minibot for those who might think that they have no chance because their minibot takes 2-3 seconds to climb the pole. I don't think in the grand scheme of things, climb rate is going to play that large a role in the minibot race compared to all of the other things that have to happen.
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it looks like its got 1 motor drive, and no battery attached. it makes sense... Try adding the battery mass and an extra motor because 1 isn't going to cut it once the battery attached.
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I would quite happily take my 3 second MINIBOT into a Finals match against 1625. There's entirely too much that happens (including some luck) to think that a 2-second MINIBOT is the end of the world. Stop braining your walls (or w/e), calling it cheating, or disseminating what that cord is that looks attached to it. The reality is, it doesn't matter. It's a score differential to make up via strategy, and so long as 4 MINIBOTS climb it's QUITE doable.
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That is great to see it go up that fast but with that design i see know easy way of deploying it to the bar
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Why downplay the benefit of a faster minibot?
The time of the entire process, deployment and climb, is what matters. Just because deployment is in there, doesn't mean climb time doesn't count. A 1.5 second climb will be a huge advantage. Assuming they have similar deployment speeds, they can deploy later and still win. Assuming they have faster deployment speeds, which they likely will, they can deploy much later and still win. If you disagree, then settle for 3 seconds. |
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The point was for those who covet the capabilities to quit whining. |
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I think the fastest minibots will be some of the simplest minibots. I don't think you need to have a whole lot of tooling capability to make the minibot in the video.
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1> you need to get there (and defense can keep you out) and 2> There's others on your alliance that can be defended against. (I'll take 2 of our alliances minibots against 1 of you alliances) ;) |
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Some people here seem to be deviating from the spirit of gracious professionalism here. For those of you who are whining about not being able to do it, put the time of you complaining into effort and ingenuity. pfreivald, you're being an amazing example to us by pouring that competitive and creative spark ignited from this video into something productive.
For those of you who are debating the usefulness of a quick mini-bot, that's not the purpose of this section of the forums. If that's what you want to do, go to the strategy section. I'm sure there's something there for you. Stop downplaying their achievement, because whatever you may think about the usefulness of a fast mini-bot, that doesn't change the fact that this was amazingly done. As for me, I'm going to sit back and appreciate true effort and ingenuity at work, and congratulate Team 1625's success at making a truly marvelous piece of machinery and become inspired to work harder. Good work guys. Keep up the amazing work. :D |
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Okay seriously - they said the battery was on the minibot. Why are you devoting time and energy into trying as hard as you can to disprove that?
It's a mind-opening minibot that really gets you thinking about what the bare minimum you need for success really is - and that's it. |
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The thing labeled "weight" is a set of vise grips, which they clearly used to clamp on the "win pump" because this is just a prototype and they couldn't be bothered to use a hose clamp.
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First off, get it get it! Anyways, First off we need to give these guys a round of applause for even showing their bot and talking to us about it. Second off, our team had a 3 wheel mini bot that had a time of 3-4 seconds this being the latest edition, then they saw yours, took a wheel off and a lot of metal. It seemed at lot faster but me cleaning up cause no one else was, missed it. Anyways I just wanted to say, hands off to winovation, you guys are really inspiring the real world.
Did i spell that right? Winnovation is what i am talking about, the first one has one n the second has two. Which way?!?! |
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I'm curious as to whether or not that minibot is still legal given the new ruling on welding. Given that it's Winnovation, I don't think that would be much of an obstacle, whether anything was welded or not.
That said, I had to watch this video soooo many times before I actually believed it. |
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Solder: Not just for wires!
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As for those who are still trying to find flaws with the minibot: Quote:
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