Re: 5th Gear
 

I'm (not so) patiently awaiting this software's release, hoping that we can use it for driver training before our regional this Thursday.

How long do you anticipate it will take to get approved on one of the two websites? If someone were to provide temporary public hosting for the file, would you be willing to pass it along? :)

Re: 5th Gear
 

Folks,

Go here (WPI's Think Tank pages) now for the initial 2011 5th Gear release: http://thinktank.wpi.edu/article/141

Once again - A BIG THANK YOU to WPI for their generous donation of downloading services that complement our LM download site.

Ignore the "2010" in the Think Tank page title (we need to change it from 2010 to 2011).

Please take notes on bugs you find, but also please give us a chance to post a list of known bugs (soon) before we fill this thread with duplicates. Once we put up our list, if you have more bugs/requests to add, then please do post them here. We expect a modest number of those reports. Like you guys & gals building the robots, we very nearly have to ship/release as soon as we finish coding and modeling; so our testing plans often get the short end of the stick...

Enjoy!

Blake
PS: If you want to tell us you like 5th Gear; or especially if your team thinks it is a useful strategy/planning tool, or is a useful practice tool for drivers, coaches, and/or scouts; you have my permission ;) to post those messages any time - no need to wait!

Re: 5th Gear
 

I like 5th Gear and think it is a useful strategy/planning tool, as well as a useful practice tool for drivers, coaches, and/or scouts. :D

Re: 5th Gear
 

Thanks for the hard work! There, I said it after it was done this time :D

Thanx,

David

Re: 5th Gear
 

Hey I installed 5th gear, installed the latest drivers and whenever I try to start a server, the game crashes and asks me to install the latest drivers and they are the latest.

Re: 5th Gear
 

Don't worry Blake, I already have tons of bug reports for you. At least one for every FRC game, actually.

In all seriousness, thanks a ton for the release. I'm glad you guys implemented so many good new features like autonomous mode, "revolving" server / clients so you don't have to restart, and the ability to quit mid match.

Re: 5th Gear
 

You don't always want the latest drivers the OEMs (Microsoft, Nvidia, etc.) produced - You do want the "latest" drivers 5th Gear expects. Let's see if that is the cause of your symptom.

I/we are using:

.Net 3.5 SP1. You can get it from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/e...displaylang=en

DirectX 9.0c. You can get it from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/e...1-50ceb6d8fa8d

You need to use XNA 3.1. You can get it (actually you an MS installer package) from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/e...1-98eb3e799ef2

You need to use Nvidia PhysX 9.10.0513. You can get it from here:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx-9...13-driver.html

Xbox controller (we use WIRED, not wireless, controllers) drivers are found here: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/do...ategory=gaming
We have not tested using wireless controllers.

Notice that (for example) .Net 3.5 SP1 isn't the latest .Net version Microsoft offers. If you use later or earlier versions, you are diverging from what we develop on. Later versions of it (or of any of the other pre-reqs) should offer "backward" compatability, but I wouldn't bet my paycheck on it.

Let us/me know how this stacks up against what is in your computer and/or what happens if you switch to using exactly what I listed above.

Blake

Re: 5th Gear
 

NOTE TO EVERYONE INSTALLING:

If you are using the installation instruction linked on the WPI Think Tank page, the link to the XNA redistributable in the document is the WRONG version. 5th Gear needs the 3.1 XNA redistributable and the 3.0 redistributable is the one linked in the document. The correct XNA redistributable is at http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/e...1-98EB3E799EF2

Installing 3.0 on my machine caused 5th Gear to not open at all. Installing 3.1 fixed this problem immediately.

Rangel - this could be causing your error.

Re: 5th Gear
 

Thanks, after installing this specific nvidia driver, it started working. Awesome Simulator. My favorite so far. Also, the turning for the robots are a little slow. Their entire overall speed of the robots could be increased as well.

Re: 5th Gear
 

Yikes! - I have passed this info to David, the colleague who revised the instrcutions and pushed them up into the WPI site this year. Obviously, he/we will revise them.

Thanks! Deetman.

Re: 5th Gear
 

Bug/Request/Observations list from the week 1 regionals

Robots turn too slowly when responding to Xbox Controller (instead of keyboard).
The field's graphics models creep out of position over time. - We have a fix for this and will deploy it soon.
Rapidly issuing several throw requests from an Xbox controller crashes the server.
The triangle is "jumpy" when held by the liftbot.
Tubes can become unrealisticly entangled with the robot physics.
Alt-Tabbing out of a Fullscreen client makes the Field and Game Pieces disappear.
Client and Server score mismatch is not explained by the legends/titles on the screens.
Individual robots' scores on the Server are all zeros.
Robots sometimes (fall to the floor and) move erratically at the start of a match.
The Armbot arm can get stuck in the floor.
The Armbot arm is diffcult to control with the Xbox controller.
Occasional unhandled exceptions due to exceeding the size of a collection.
Interrupting the Client LM intro video between matches causes client rejections later.
Too easy to get stuck on top of tubes.
Too hard to pick up tubes with Armbot.
Hard to get tubes from feeding slots.
Easy to get stuck in the Feeder lanes.
Arcade drive turns better than Tank drive.
Strafing is too slow.
Screen graphics mismatched with physics (graphics model creep? - See above).

Re: 5th Gear
 

This isn't exclusive to the Xbox controller, at least in my experience. It's a very strange bug that depends a lot on robot configuration and the game you're playing.

For Logomotion, the lifter takes at least 5 seconds to turn 90 degrees using either the controller or the keyboard. The armbot can turn quickly, if the arm is retracted over the robot base. What I theorize is happening is that the game is calculating turning speed as a function of wheelbase length. That's why armbot turning speed drops dramatically with an extended arm holding a tube.

For Lunacy, robots are simply unable to turn. The trailer also has a dramatic amount of "pull" on the robot.

To a lesser extent, this can happen with the armbot and the square or triangle, but only under some seemingly random circumstance.

Just a note for people playing: You can "unstick" the arm by backing up, then raising it one "click".

-----

Now for some of my bug reports:

Logomotion:

• Arm robot cannot score on the top row. I don't know if the claw is able to extend upward or something, but I have yet to get a tube on the top row with the arm robot.
• White tubes on the middle rack are particularly sensitive. Placing them usually results in no point increase, or it will alternate between scored and not scored. The white tube can be scored by jamming it behind the field model in a physically impossible way, but right now it almost never counts. I have not tested to see if this applies to all racks.
• Deploying a minibot early results in a 3 point penalty - this is not part of the game. The tower is simply disabled.

Overdrive: Just one! Balls that leave the field never return. They just roll off into the abyss. This makes the game kinda boring. :P

Lunacy: See above comment about turning. The game is not playable.

Breakaway: In the past, if a player rapidly hit the ball return key, some balls would roll along the edge of the player station then fall into the front zone. Now, these balls roll all the way down the edge of the player station and permanently off the field, into the abyss.

---

Please don't take my list as a scathing criticism of this software. I love it and enjoy using it!

Re: 5th Gear
 

Bugs aside, me gusta mucho <3 got to the point where I started up my own server just to play with one player (me :)) I'll def. be playing this on Sunday-Wednesday when there aren't any regionals to be watching.

Re: 5th Gear
 

Understood & Thanks.

FYI - The "old" games originally were each an individual work of art, we used different physics hacks to get each to play reasonably well. Over the summer we converted them to all use the same robot physics - We now need to get each to play well by changing parameters and not the rules of the physics. That will take some time to get right.

FYI - Yes, deploying the Minibot early in a real tournament in the Quals gets you carded, and that card stays with you. Deploying a 5th Gear Minibot early, or on an opponent's tower, would not have a similar effect, because nothing / no one is going to keep track of the proper real-world penalty (a card) after the 5th Gear match is over.

Assessing a 3 point penalty in 5th Gear matches is a compromise that inflicts some pain beyond simply not winning the race. The actual size of the penalty (0 to N points) is something we can tweak if folks don't like the current setting. We need something that deters misbehavior as strongly as a real card would in a real match.

When I originally chose the magnitudes of 5th Gear Yellow and Red Card penalties, I think I set them at 10 and 30 points respectively. Someone more cheerful and forgiving than I ;) must have toned them down a bit.

Blake

Re: 5th Gear
 

Gracias y de nada!