Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

We need some additional Solenoids...
We checked with FESTO but they are quoting
$100 each.... no special deal for FIRST teams...

Anyone have a better (cheaper) source for these or any other cheaper legal alternative?

Thanks for the help!!

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

look at the COTS section of the manual.. but i think if i remember right it says as long as the solenoid matches the specifications it can be used

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Do some swapping with local teams who aren't using pneumatics this year.

We picked up three that way last year.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

That's a good idea... we will try that..
Not only are they expensive but the lead time for shipment is also too long...

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Doesn't help much with price, but AndyMark sells a Festo valve kit now:

http://www.andymark.com/ProductDetai...ctCode=am-0888

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Not to derail the topic, but does any one know where to get the single value festo?
Thanks in advance.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

I've actually been much happier with SMC Solenoids:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...763#post908763

Easier to get as well.

-RC

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

please note that these are 12 vdc and not 24 vdc like provided in the kit.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

One of the FIRST Choice options was some pneumatic fittings from Nitra, through Automation Direct.

AutomationDirect has several solenoids on their website and the prices seem reasonable.
(EDIT - These SOLENOIDS do not meet the 2011 rules.)

http://www.automationdirect.com

The site tells you immediately if the item is in stock.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Question:
<R66> states a maximum Cv of.32.

I cannot find anything on the FESTO page that gives this rating for the VUVG valve that AndyMark sells or was previously provided. Does anyone have the spec sheet for this valve?

Most of the valves I am finding have higher flow rates than .32.
Is this changeable with a fitting in the out port of the valve?

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

I'm not an inspector but if I were these valves wouldn't pass. Not only is the CV more than twice the allowed rate they also are only rated for 115psi and would require a second pressure relief valve on the low side.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

This is the same valve supplied in the KOP except for the 12vdc coil.
As long as you stick with the VUVG M5s you will be legal.

The larger M7 are the ones that flow more.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

After looking closer, I had noticed the Cv issue and was going to do an edit.
On the pressure side, these are on the downstream side of the regulator, and operate at 60 PSI.

Although since they were in a previous KOP you could assume they are legal, but I cannot find any documentation on the specs to show that. I don't think it safe to assume older KOP items are legal to current rules (think FP motors ...).

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

B. Solenoid valves with a maximum ⅛” NPT port diameter, and a maximum Cv of 0.32 (if non-KOP valves are used, the team will be required to provide part documentation validating that the valves meet these constraints).
Solenoid valves that are rated for a maximum working pressure that is less than 125psi rating mandated above are permitted, however if employed, an additional pressure relief valve must be added to the low pressure side of the main regulator. The additional relief valve must be set to a lower pressure than the maximum pressure rating for the solenoid valve.

The valves are included in this years rookie kit and are the same as last years valve. The only difference in what AM is selling is the coil voltage.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

AndyMark is selling the M7 valves. Are you saying these are not legal per <R66> B?

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Hmm... The Festo solenoid valve (#566475) found on FIRST Choice is also M7, according to the datasheet...
http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...o%20566475.pdf

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Technically yes. They are not the valve provided in the KOP and they flow more than .32cv

This would be a good question for the GDC.

I will ask.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Hang on a second, facts need to be checked.

Yes, the larger fittings let them flow higher, but it is still legal, please see below.

#566475 uses 24 volts and was provided in the FIRST Choice program. #564212 uses 12 volts and can be purchased at AndyMark.

No, they don't flow more than 0.32 Cv. These valves flow at 0.22 Cv, or 220 l/min. The rule <r66> B talks about the flow rate of a SOLENOID VALVE to be limited to 0.32, not a FITTING.

These valves are legal, in my opinion.

Andy Baker

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

A team goes to a regional.
The inspector sees the part number on the valve or BOM and notes that it is different from the part number on the inspection sheet.
He asked for documentation to prove the Cv and the team shows him the Festo data sheet.
No where on that sheet is Cv listed, he says show me the Cv number
They show him the data sheet for the M5 that lists the flow rate of 150-220 l/pm and they tell him Andy Baker says that means .22cv
He takes them on faith and says OK show me the data sheet on the M7.
That sheet says a flow rate of 190-380 l/pm.
The inspector says,well according to what you said that means that the rate is .38cv and not legal for FIRST use.
What should that inspector do?



I have asked for clarification from the GDC.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Andy,

I just ordered 5 valves from you (thanks for the price break from Festo list prices for my volume level), please make sure they are legal or I will have to either send them back or be very upset with wasting $560.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Please remember that what I say means absolutely nothing. It is totally just my opinion.

I will be absolutely shocked if the GDC rules against valves that were included in FIRST choice. My prediction would be a simple updated to the rules specifically mentioning these valves.

My only point is to clarify the issue to make inspectors job and teams lives easier.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

This pneumatic issue is out of control. We can get a great price on solenoids and they meet the .32 CV. however the fine print of the data sheet shows they only meet this if they are mounted on a very specific manifold. On a single manifold the are .42CV. This puts an unreasonable burden on the inspectors. I could show a data sheet to an inspector and get away with .42 CV. Only if the inspector was very into pneumatics would they ever suspect I was cheating.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Here is a nice article, written jointly by representatives from Festo, Numatics, and Parker. It describes how Cv is measured in non-consistent ways.

Andy B.

Re: Pneumatic Solenoid source
 

Ask and you shall receive. Thanks for the clarification GDC.

From update #11

The 2011 Kit of Parts Checklist, Rev E has been updated to include VUVG-L10-B52-T-M7 as an alternate part number for the FESTO valves delivered in the Kit of Parts. There were two part numbers shipped for use in kitting and this revision allows teams to use either or both valves on the ROBOT.