illegal
 

does anyone have a list of motors for previous years that are illegal this year. if you have pics of them two that would be awesome

Re: illegal
 

Van Door: black, looks kind of like a window motor with an extra-long shaft. Discontinued after 2004, IIRC.
Drill motor: looks a lot like an FP. Often found in pre-2005 drives.
Taigene window motor: silvery version of the Densos. Don't remember when it was discontinued.
Mabuchi motor: looks like a BB motor, no gearbox. Don't remember when it disappeared; it was used in 2005.
Seat motor: so old I don't remember what it looks like... discontinued after 2002.
Globe motor: looked like a BB with a black gearbox on the end of the same diameter and a shaft with a flat on it. I forget when it was discontinued; probably shortly after 2004.

Any particular reason you're asking?

Re: illegal
 

::rtm:: You CAN use: 4 CIMs, 2 Right Window, 2 Left Window, 1 F-P, and 4 BaneBots motors in any combination

Re: illegal
 

That wasn't the question that was asked.

The question asked was effectively, "What motors used to be legal that are not, and what do they look like?"

I forgot one: the pre-2011 FP motors are now non-legal.

Re: illegal
 

Eric's list is pretty comprehensive, but he did forget one motor, the large CIM.

I believe it was offered in the kit from 2005 to 2007, it was approximately 3" in diameter whereas the current CIM is 2.5" in diameter. The dead giveaway, if you can't tell by the size, is that the large CIM had a pulley and tensioner attached.

Re: illegal
 

And the mounting angle on one side by the shaft. 2006-2007 was the legal time to use it.

Re: illegal
 

What about motors from previous motors are any of those illegal?

Like ones from 2008 and newer?

Re: illegal
 

The FPs that weren't in this year's kit are illegal--there was a change in type.

I can't recall any others offhand.

Any particular reason you're asking?

Re: illegal
 

The Globe motor was discontinuted in 2010. The last kit it appeared in was 2009.

Re: illegal
 

we are using a motor for our arm and one of our team mates said it was illegal and i do not know what the motor is called i believe got it last year

Re: illegal
 

this is what the motor looks like

Re: illegal
 

That's a window motor, so it's either a Taigene or a Denso.

My best guess is it's a Denso, as the Taigene gearboxes tended to be metal.

Next question: Does the part number match the part number on the KOP checklist? If so, and you aren't using another 2 of that type, you're OK. If not, you're not OK.

Re: illegal
 

so any motor is legal as long as we put it on our BOM list

my question is what makes a motor illegal

Re: illegal
 

no. there are lots of illegal motors. assume a motor illegal until proven legal.

what makes some motors illegal is not being in this year's KOP or being one too many of a legal motor.

read the manual!

from what I have seen, van door motors were in kits as late as 09. My current team has one, and they were 09 rookies (and the motor was labeled as being from the 09 KOP). they were legal in 08 (148 used one to steer that year).

the globes were KOP as late as 09 as well... my team at the time used one for a turret; my current team as well as 1024 used 4 to steer crab modules that year. IIRC they were legal in 10.

there were also various mabuchi motors (same co. that makes the FP) that were legal last year... but not this year. not sure on when they were KOP.

the window motor above doesn't look legal. the threaded insert was aluminum, not copper. also, the contact covers were white, not black.

Re: illegal
 

Any motor is legal, as long as its Part Number matches one that is one the KOP checklist, or is specifically allowed in the Manual.


So,
4 CIM motors
1 FP (2011 Model)
2 Right hand Denso Window Motors
2 Left Hand Denso Window Motors
4 BaneBots motors, any combination of the 4 allowed models.

Re: illegal
 

That is not true

It is legal if it is listed in the manual, rule <R45>. Any others are illegal.

Also you must be in compliance with <R46>, which basically limits the quantities of motors.

Re: illegal
 

<R45> very explicitly explains what motors are legal. If it isn't on this list, then it is illegal.

Going through the history of motors while interesting, isn't helpful. The only thing that counts is <R45>

Re: illegal
 

thanks very much all of you

Re: illegal
 

The question, as asked, was "What motors used to be legal and are not legal at this time?"

The question that should have been asked is "We have a motor that we would like to use. Is it legal?"

Re: the van door motor: I don't remember a single one in the KOP after 2004. You may be thinking of the Taigene window motor. I couldn't find the VD in the 2006 KOP list, which is on the FIRST site. It certainly wasn't in 2007's KOP. There was none in the 2009 KOP.

Re: illegal
 

A van door motor, or van door-like motor, appeared in the 2008 kit, and disappeared the following year.

Re: illegal
 

A different Taigene Window Motor, not a van door motor, according to the KOP Checklist for that year. You can see the van door motor under the wheel in http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/14512

Re: illegal
 

gotcha. the 08 is slightly different. close though.

Re: illegal
 

All the motors I can remember being in FRC Since 2003:

2.5" CIM Motor (black casing, various p/n's over the years) ?-Present
Keyang Window Motor
Taigene Window Motor
Denso Window Motor (not sure on which years which variants were legal)
FP - a few P/N's legal in various years, all with similar, but slightly different specs, 2005-present (i think)
Banebots RS540 2009-present
Banebots RS550 2009-present
Banebots RS775 2011
Banebots RS345 2011
Bosch Drill Motor (silver casing with blue wires attached) ?-2004
Van Door Motor (shaft had a flat on it, looks like a big window motor) ?-2004
3" CIM (bigger than current CIM, and had tensioner thingy) 2005-2006.
Globe Motor (silver motor, with grey gearbox, flat shaft) 2004-2009


I'm probably missing some.

Re: illegal
 

There are actually 6 legal Banebot motors, The M7-RS775-12, M7-RS775-18, M5-RS550-12, M5-RS550-12-B, M5-RS540-12, and M3-RS395-12.

The two not originally included in the KOP were the RS775-12 (Physically Identical to the RS775-12, but designed to run on 12 volts, less robust and less powerful than an RS775-18 running at 12V) and the RS550-12-B (Functionally and Physically Identical to the RS550-12, but has a longer shaft on back of motor to facilitate encoder mounting.)

You can use any 4 motor combination of the 6 legal motors.

Re: illegal
 

Nobody remembers the Belimo torque motor?

Re: illegal
 

Also, there were actually a couple different drill motors. In 2000, 2001 and 2002, there was a Johnson drill motor (roughly RS-775-sized, I believe). Then came the more powerful Bosch/Scintilla drill motor from 2003 to 2004.

There were also several versions of the window motor. In particular, there were both left- and right-hand versions of the Denso, Nippon Denso and a number of externally-similar Keyang window motors. I don't think Tiagene made any, but I could be wrong.

There were several different van door motors, from Bosch and Tiagene (they look like window motors, but are bigger).

Re: illegal
 

We still have that laying around actually.

Re: illegal
 

<R45> Motors specifically permitted on 2011 FRC ROBOTS include:
A. all motors, actuators, and servos listed in the 2011 KOP Checklist,
B. an unlimited number of COTS servos with a maximum power rating of 4W ,
C. one or two additional 2½” CIM motors (part #FR801-001, M4-R0062-12, AM802-001A, or PMR25R-45F-1003) in addition to those provided in the KOP. This means that up to four, and no more, 2½” CIM motors can be used on the ROBOT,
D. up to four, in any combination, of the BaneBots motors provided in the KOP (acceptable part numbers are M7-RS775-12, M7-RS775-18, M5-RS550-12, M5-RS550-12-B, M5-RS540-12, and M3-RS395-12)

You should download the KOP Checklist to be sure of what came in the KOP.

Re: illegal
 

Various types of Mabuchi motors were in the kit, including 2 versions of the rs-555 in 2010. In 2011, the Banebots motors, which are likely Chinese clones of different Masbuchi motors, replaced them.

That particular motor is very likely illegal, the gearbox is too small, and the connector should be off-white, not black.


I'm fairly sure the FP was, and still is a Johnson Motor, the Mabuchi was made by Mabuchi.

Re: illegal
 

It depended on the year. Sometimes, Johnson. Sometimes, Mabuchi. Same specs, different maker (except for 2005, when we all got 6V ones).

Re: illegal
 

Well, similar specs anyway...some of the Fisher-Price motors were in the 175 W range (e.g. 2003 Mabuchi) and others in the 220 W range (e.g. 2002 Johnson). And then, there was that 400 W mistake....

Re: illegal
 

so where can we buy more 2011-legal FP motors? We only got one in the kit and my team is looking for spares since we can't simply plug in a pre-2011 motor

Re: illegal
 

here

http://www.andymark.com/ProductDetai...ctCode=am-0821

notice there is no gear on it.... and the gear is a pain to remove or install.

You might also find a team that has one they are not using.