How many times do you scout a team???
 

Hey everyone. I'm my team's scout captain this year and I was just wondering, at competition how many matches do you scout a team for?

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

As many as possible. There is no such thing as too much data on a given team.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

Precisely. Our team has decided to pit scout, game scout and re-pit scout if necessary.

Keep an eye on the list of teams at your regional, some veterans may be slacking, and some rookies might be dominating. Don't write off a rookie team just because they are rookies.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

I feel like if we were to scout all 40 teams like 6 times then we would 240 sheets of paper with information that we would have to sift through and it wouldn't be very helpful. Also let it be known that my team isn't very big we have about 20 people on our team and the ones that can scout will not want to do it all day.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

We have two different types of scouting.

1) Pit Scouting: Our students go into the pits to get specific information from each team at the regional in regards to their robot. (Drivetrain, autonomous modes, 1 or 2 speed motors, etc.)

2) Match Scouting (the one that holds more weight): Other students will sit in the scouting recording match data, and how a specific robot performs. We typically have six students doing the scouting, and they are rotated every now and then.

We handle scouting very seriously, as that helps us figure out who exactly are the top performers at the competitions, so we try and get as much information and data as we can.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

Having information for every team for every match is very helpful. It lets you see how a team progressing. Is there a team that is progressivly getting better or maybe even getting worse?

It is a lot of work to sift through all the information, but after spending 6 weeks to build the robot, I think its worth it to spend a little more time to give yourself the best chance at winning. Many teams have developed fancy computer programs or other systems to avoid having to go through all those sheets.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

All of them. You never know when a team that has been struggling all day Friday will "get it together" on Saturday (or worse, fall apart as the competition wears on)...

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

You can fit more than one team onto a sheet. And let it be known that 330 has been known to scout every single match, for 6 robots, at one person per robot, and this would be with about 15-20 people (not just team members).

And two of those people were entering data into a computer.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

To expand on Eric's post: Every team, every match.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

1511 scouts every match :)

We do pit scouting and match scouting (yes, EVEN finals & matches we're in!). This way we can line up all the actually information. Pit scouting is good, just to get an idea of what teams have as far as robots. We always say that seeing is much better than just listening to the numbers :D

Hope this helps!

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

We tend to scout a team all threw the competition.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

As has been said, more data is always (always) better. If you're worried about having too much paper to sift through consider having one of your programmers do up a scouting program, or at least get good at inputting the data to [your favourite spreadsheet program].

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

Wow thanks everyone...you have given me some good ideas for scouting, now I just have to convince my team to let me do it:yikes:

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

If you don't scout every team at every match, you won't be able to track progress. A low ranking team that suddenly fixes a part and scores twice as much as usual in their final matches would make an excellent, if underrated, alliance partner.

Even if you are not the picking alliance, you should have a ranked list of preferred picks of every single team at the regional.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

We don't stop scouting teams until we're knocked out of the event.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

We do 3 separate scouts per team but mostly for the teams we play with and against hope that helps and be sure to make a pit scout in addition!
1 2 3
/ / /
scout scout scout=3 forms
+ a pit-scout(scout of the pits)
-there is no such thing as an over scouting :0

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

All of this said (and Crystal answered what 1511 currently does), if you are shorthanded there are two solutions.

1. What we did our rookie year
- Have 1 or 2 people at all times watching matches and taking data. (we used a single excel sheet that had all of the teams in each match listed, but you could also just have one sheet per team with their match numbers on it)
- They preselect 2 teams per match to watch for that match, and gather all the data they can.
- In the selection process, you make sure every team is covered 3-4 times.
- If one of the teams chosen is a DNS or just dies (or does very little), you gather data on another team in the match.
- Make sure you get one match per "time period"... we used to try for a practice match, a friday morning, a friday afternoon, and a saturday morning.

This method limits the number of people you need to scout but also gets rid of the "they were temporarily broken" or "temporarily awesome" issue. It is not as ideal as having data from every single match, but just like in Robot Design, you HAVE to do what your team is capable of or its just not going to be useful data anyway.

2. SHARE
Find another team that has awesome scouting and ask if you can help them in exchange for their data, or just have their data, or some other kind of trade. 1511 has worked with teams in this manner, providing our data to teams that don't have scouting systems or that come help us. Many teams are very open with their data.

Good luck!

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

Definitely as many as possible. We do at least one time for every match a team plays between Friday and Saturday.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

It matters on how important that team is to your schedule. you should scout at least every team once at a competition. But if a team is your opponent in a qualification match, then you might want to scout them more than once. Its all a matter of how many people you have on your scout team. The more the marrier.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

we have our 6 scouts and assign a spot for each, that way whatever team is in that spot is scouted, and we do that for every match up to the playoffs.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

We have a person scout every robot every match. They fill in bubbles on a form then we place it into an automatic scanner. We can then generate reports on all of the robots!

It works surprisingly well.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

We don't scout, but honestly, what do you scout for? Yes sure, how many points they scored, whether it was an offensive or defensive bot. But how do you get an honest answer regarding the robot itself? Most are not numbers on screen. You really can't judge a defensive robot's abilities by asking the teams. In other other words, how do you get an accurate judgement qualitatively and not on the quantity??

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

Of course, what you DO with the data collected is more important than the data itself. Team 330 generates spreadsheets that process the data collected. Weighting factors are used to assess the relative strengths of the robots.

Here's a simplified example of how that works. Assume that we figure all of the action is going to be tubes. Our initial cut at a spreadsheet will have a high weighting factor, say 70%, assigned to how many tubes a robot put up in a match. If at the event we find minibots to be more important, we simply change the weighting factors of the minibot and the tubes and the spreadsheet produces a different result, showing the high performing minibots.

These things can be set up and verified before the event so that while you are there you can focus on collecting the data.

Pure performace is not the only data to worry about either. While it is helpful in determining what a team is capable of, it does nothing to reveal unexploited weaknesses in a robot's design, like last year being able to be shoved into a goal and immobilized. This type of information takes a different type of scouting than just counting up scores.

How teams work together on an alliance is also important. I know of one team that might have lost out on a World Championshiop because they gave the person sent to talk to them about pairing up in eliminations the cold shoulder. That honor went to another team on our short list that was a little more friendly. I've always wondered what would have happened if things had gone differently....

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

Begin scouting early on Thursday and have a solid database of team info. This comes in handy during alliance selection. Being able to see how a robot/team has progressed could cause you to pick them or not pick them. I also suggest taking photos of each robot and having these photos available during your pick meeting. The drive team and pit crew often interact with many different teams so the photos are a good way to spark their memory.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

I agree with everything that has been said about scouting every match every robot and the pit scouting but I also have some stuff to add:

Media aspect! If you have someone with a video camera, get teams of interest ON VIDEO. If there's a team you see in the pit with a wicked awesome manipulator, VIDEO IT IN ACTION. If you hear about a team being a power house this year, VIDEO IT IN ACTION. Point is, if you get everything on video, you can review it in the pit, Friday night, and even during the day Saturday if you're having a hard time deciding on your dream alliance. A video that you can watch speaks volumes about how a team performs.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

as the person who's been head of scouting for 522 for the last 3 years you need to scout every robot in every match and talk to your team strategist every single time your team goes up. successful results every time

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

I really hope you aren't serious on the "what do you scout for"... I never say things like this, but if you wanted to improve your record, you might consider scouting.

See this post for how we use "subjective" data.

We give relatively little weight to our pit scouting (what you ask the teams), but it is very relevant to deciding what you "might" see them do on the field against you. And watching matches is INVALUABLE... We use all of it to not only decide our match strategies but determine our alliance selection list, and have made it to elims all but 3 out of 19 events (alliance captain for many).

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

It is best to try to get as many matches as possible. I also found this website that has some useful information, http://frcdb.net/

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

we scout every team every match if something happens to a robot, we know about it

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

Constantly. I tell my kids walk around with a notepad in their pocket. You scout every match they show up in. If they don't show for the match, you get someone to see why they are not on the field. If they are not there cause of major issues, that is worthy of note. If they are not there cause of adding a system, then it's worth having someone watching them on the practice field. There is no such thing as to much bad information.

Re: How many times do you scout a team???
 

Don't forget to scout your own team.

Not only will this help improve your own play, but it allows you to be realistic about your teams capabilities.