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-   -   Al's Annual Inspection Thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93248)

jspatz1 25-04-2011 00:04
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread
 
The logic that another battery cannot be used to compress air before a match would imply that you must drain any residual pressure left from a previous match, or drain any pressure left from testing or practice, before you install the battery for the next match. That's just silly. How is charging the air pressure any different than manually cocking a spring or raising a counterweight before a match? Stored energy is allowed. There is no rule that says "all stored energy in a robot must have originated from the battery that is about to be used in competition."

Jon236 25-04-2011 08:02
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread
 
The issue isn't whether the battery is switched after running the compressor; it is whether an off-board battery/compressor setup is used to pressurize the system. According to the rules, the compressor must be controlled by the cRio via the pressure switch....thus only 1 battery can be used....the battery on the robot. You certainly can maintain the pressure in the tanks after switching the battery.

Jon Stratis 25-04-2011 10:05
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon236 (Post 1056298)
The issue isn't whether the battery is switched after running the compressor; it is whether an off-board battery/compressor setup is used to pressurize the system. According to the rules, the compressor must be controlled by the cRio via the pressure switch....thus only 1 battery can be used....the battery on the robot. You certainly can maintain the pressure in the tanks after switching the battery.
What about a setup that allows the Anderson connector (properly hooked up to the main circuit breaker and the power distribution board) to be plugged into a battery that is not actually residing within the robot? In this case, you could have a battery sitting in the robot, ready to go, and one sitting next to the robot, powering everything (cRio, Compressor, etc) while the pneumatics charge... then unplug that battery and plug in the one that's already on the robot. That is the typical practice that is being discussed here.

Al Skierkiewicz 25-04-2011 12:02
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread
 
Eagle,
As the rules continuously relate to "the Anderson Power Products (APP) connector" the GDC has ruled in the past that means that only one shall battery connector may be on the robot.
As answered here...

Posted by 2011FRC2723 at 01/17/2011 11:32:02 am
Is it legal to have two anderson clip leads on one battery so that the battery can still be
plugged into the robot and be charging at the same time? If so I would put the braker on both
of the leads so I can turn one off while using the other.
Re: Battery Connection
Posted by GDC at 01/19/2011 07:36:12 pm
No. This would be a violation of Rule <R37>.

Al Skierkiewicz 25-04-2011 12:13
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle33199 (Post 1056205)
it would seem simple to put a manual valve in place there to manually turn off the working portion of the pneumatic system, and allow safe storage. Then once on the field and in position, that manual valve could be turned, allowing the system to "go live" in a safe way - much the same as safety pins and lockouts that teams put in place during transport and pull once they are on the field.

Thoughts? This could be a nice safety feature...
I actually like this idea. I know we are going to catch a lot of flak for the weight it adds, but it is a nice safety feature.

Jon Stratis 25-04-2011 13:15
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz (Post 1056357)
Eagle,
As the rules continuously relate to "the Anderson Power Products (APP) connector" the GDC has ruled in the past that means that only one shall battery connector may be on the robot.
As answered here...

Posted by 2011FRC2723 at 01/17/2011 11:32:02 am
Is it legal to have two anderson clip leads on one battery so that the battery can still be
plugged into the robot and be charging at the same time? If so I would put the braker on both
of the leads so I can turn one off while using the other.
Re: Battery Connection
Posted by GDC at 01/19/2011 07:36:12 pm
No. This would be a violation of Rule <R37>.
I completely agree with this, and didn't intend for my statement to be taken otherwise. There is nothing wrong, however, with having a single Anderson connector on the robot with leads long enough that it can be plugged into a battery sitting next to the robot for pneumatics charging, and then unplugged from that battery and (using the same Anderson connector) plugged into the competition battery, which has already been inserted and secured to the robot.

jspatz1 25-04-2011 13:42
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by plnyyanks (Post 1055887)

Quote:
<R01> Energy used by FRC ROBOTS, (i.e., stored at the start of a MATCH), shall come only from the following sources:
A. Electrical energy derived from the onboard 12V battery (see Rule <R34> for specifications and further details).
B. Compressed air stored in the pneumatic system, stored at a maximum pressure of 120 PSI.
C. A change in the altitude of the ROBOT center of gravity.
D. Storage achieved by deformation of ROBOT parts.

Quote:
<R34> The only legal source of electrical energy for the ROBOT/HOSTBOT during the competition is one MK ES17-12 12VDC non-spillable lead acid battery, OR one EnerSys NP 18-12 battery, as provided in the 2011 KOP.
(emphasis mine)

These rules disallow the use of any other battery than the one on the robot. Therefore, it is illegal to charge pneumatic systems with any other battery pre-match. It would be legal to have the system charged before entering into the queue line EDIT: starting a match , but past that point, it would become illegal.
Your point is contradicted by your own excerpts. R01-b says energy may come from stored compressed air. R34 says the rule applies "during the competition."

Tristan Lall 25-04-2011 16:48
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz (Post 1056362)
I actually like this idea. I know we are going to catch a lot of flak for the weight it adds, but it is a nice safety feature.
That needs a huge "remove before flight" tag. Otherwise, I think it's obvious what teams are going to forget to do....

buildmaster5000 25-04-2011 16:56
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz (Post 1056362)
I actually like this idea. I know we are going to catch a lot of flak for the weight it adds, but it is a nice safety feature.
The necessary part is simply a plug valve similar to the system dump valves already in use. For the ~4 oz it costs is weight, far more is gained in terms of safety.


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