Another Culture Change
 

Hello Everyone,
I've been thinking about this for a long time. I heard some horrible, interesting stories from the Pittsburgh regional this past weekend which helped solidify my thoughts.

I managed to put these thoughts into words here:
http://blog.iamjvn.com/2011/03/anoth...re-change.html

I hope you'll take a minute to read, reflect, and hopefully join me in helping to shift OUR culture.

-John

Re: Another Culture Change
 

I know John that at the bottom of the "haters" message you attached, I mentioned how I envied your team and the status your "TEAM" puts themselves at. You even said in the message that the robot is a student-mentor collaboration and together you complete the best thing that your resources can. Which actually is one hell of a good machine that people believe is created solely by mentors and not students.

Something like this just really pisses me off because kids aren't putting in the effort to try and be like 148, 1114, and multiple other teams. It seems like jealousy is a large part of today's society and it is just ridiculous to see this happen while gracious professionalism is the most apparent lesson to be learned.

Like a typical sport or game played, students and other teams should want to beat the team on the field and not anywhere else. The only way to do that is to look at the great teams that we see today. Learning about what they did and created will give you a huge advantage every year. I know John and the Robowranglers are even gracious enough to give out their final CADs every year so that teams can take them as reference.

If you have nothing good to say about the other teams then don't. If anything, you should be asking them for help and assistance during the competition.

Thank you for posting this John.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

Excellent post, JVN. It's absolutely disgusting that things like this would happen in an organization such as FIRST, which preaches "Professionalism in everything we do." It's a shame that teams cannot be happy for one another - enjoy seeing your teammates winning (there's a chance 1114 was on an alliance with at least some of these teams at some point in time during the Pittsburgh regional), and hoping they would do the same for you.

I'm not in FIRST because it's easy. No one said that one day we will arrive at St. Louis and they'll have a banner waiting for us at the stadium. That we could simply build a robot, go through the season, and win Worlds. You win Worlds by innovation. You win Worlds by determination. You win Worlds by engineering a robot so solid, that it successfully completes the game. This is for the "haters" JVN refers to in his other blog post. I'm still confused why some teams don't come to this conclusion. Did FIRST market themselves wrong? I certainly got the memo.

Why is it an issue that some teams have the determination to build a solid robot? A regional winning robot? A World winning robot? I can't say I'm familiar about how 1114 goes about building their robots, but they build them well. So well, they're inspiring. The teams that win Worlds not only build robots that dominate the game, but they build teams that display FIRST's values. It's good to see that teams that take such abuse as this don't stoop to these teams levels. It's those teams that give FIRST it's image.

It's things like this that really lower the standards of this organization. If you don't like the way your team is run, change it. If you're not winning, you're doing something wrong. Determine WHY you're not winning, and reach the level of these great teams that are. They didn't get where they are now by booing their partners, or sleazy tactics such as attempting to injure another teams robot. They got where they are by years of work, innovation, and displaying FIRST's values.

Again, great post JVN. Good to see issues like this don't go unnoticed.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

JVN, thank you for posting this; this is exactly the sentiment I've had for a while. JVN, Zack O, & rcmolloy, would you mind if I quoted some of what you've said here in a speech I'm making this weekend to the Peachtree Regional participants? These points here are so eloquently put & spot-on, I'm not sure I can put them in other words for myself.

-Kyle J.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

This just showed up right after I left the topic to check my PMs.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

Wow, what a refreshing post to see. As a member of team 2614 MARS, which actually just returned from the Pittsburgh Regional, I can honestly say that my teammates and I were all thoroughly impressed with 1114. A remarkable, beautiful robot, operated by drivers with an incredible skill and prowess. My team has had their differences with Simbotics in the past but could not have been more admiring of them this past weekend. MARS students and mentors alike took many opportunities to point out what a force they were. As a matter of fact, we owe them a special sort of thanks for giving our rookie team, 3492 RoboGens, the chance to go to Worlds. Along with 1114's sister team Spartonics, it was truly a remarkable alliance--one that we were not ashamed to lose to.

I am a relatively new member of the FIRST community but it would be my sincere hope that everyone could learn to act with the Gracious Professionalism that my team has been so adamant about instilling in its members. 1114 plays to win--and they do. That's hardly a crime. MARS, for one, admires this team's reliable competitiveness. While we pride ourselves on being a 99% student-conceived, student-built, and student-run team, we simply interact with our mentors in a different way. 1114 has a different team dynamic and in today's world where winners are abhorred and mediocrity elevated, it seems that a team with a drive to win is ostracized....

Re: Another Culture Change
 

That is beyond wrong and I feel so bad for each and everyone of 1114's members and ashamed this happened while visiting!

This is an area that came up last year with a great team who made a design that I loved and it gives all of us reasons for not saying, "that is too crazy" and it ended in a lot of harsh words. I am still in shock that this happened at a FIRST event and that it wasn't isolated and it went as far as BOOing. :(

Team 1114 is everything that I want our team to become and the level of dedication they teach at Governor Simcoe is something that I envy and respect. They have taken each season and learned from mistakes, celebrated innovation, helped the new and struggling teams, and spread FIRST in so many ways. Thank you 1114 for inspiring me!

Poor haters... they could have so much fun and do so well if they just tried.

This is why we try to keep the students from speaking negatively about other teams because this is where it leads. If ever a student said a negative comment I would either A. Say why they are wrong and point out where they got it right and if it wasn't working B. Have them ask if they need help.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

In FIRST, ignorance is NOT bliss, it is the most detrimental thing that can happen to a team. Veterans and rookies alike, love to hate on the big dogs before learning about what a team is really all about.

Mentors AND students, especially those who have a lot of influence in their area, should make sure that those around them are well educated about each and every team before things like this escalate into more severe situations.

Snide remarks from upperclassmen and mentors piss me off the most. They should know better.

I urge everyone at their respective regional to educate the people around you. Show them what the benefits of having an elite team as your friend can be, I know that I have gained A LOT from the giants I look up to.

Make this competition about winning, not whining. Make it about learning about others, not hating on them.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

John,

This really is OUR culture. It's YOUR culture, it's MY culture.

I can speak only for myself, but MY culture has been shifting dramatically since I joined the program as a freshman in high school 8 years ago. I remember having a pride about our "zero mentor input robots." I remember being one of the crowd actively boo-ing 254 in the finals of the 2005 SVR competition. I remember all the bitterness walking in the pits at the Championship in 04 through 07, seeing teams sponsored by Ford, Motorola, GM, etc. While I have had a few negative experiences with power house teams like these (nobody is perfect), I can honestly say 99.9% of this bitterness was born out of jealousy. Jealousy of the nice machining, cool pits, and blue banners. Jealousy about stuff that doesn't even matter! It's all about inspiring the kids here people! (And I get inspired in the process :))

Flash forward to 2011. Serving on the Davis Regional Planning Committee has given me perspective into the bigger picture of what FIRST does. Through asking "powerhouse" teams questions about their robots and team structure, I've found that they are meant to be a resource and friend rather than rival and enemy.

In 2010, Karthik took the time to answer in-depth questions I had regarding their unstoppable 2008 robot. These answers were key to the success of 1678's kicking mechanism that year. I have also used many of the 1114 team structure documents on their website to re-structure the team I work with here in Davis.

I've also had the opportunity to visit the 254 shop a few times. Most recently, I brought team 1678 to NASA Ames (a 2 hour drive!) to practice on their competition field the Sunday before ship. We got to do a lot of practice, which was awesome, but it was so much more than that. I came in telling the kids (who had never seen a 254 bot in person), "Alright guys, 254 is going to have an awesome robot. Learn as much as you can. See how they build. Watch how they drive. How they wire. How they do everything."

Being able to set the tone for the day allowed my students to get exponentially more out of the experience than just a jealous glare at an incredible machine. We were encouraged to look at the bot in-depth and ask questions. And I did. My kids did. It was awesome! Just my humble attempt at shifting the FIRST culture I guess...

This is kind of a tangent, but they also fed us like no other! So much food, and we were encouraged to eat as much as we could! Thanks 254!

Long post, I know, but to sum it all up, power house teams are a resource, not an enemy.

Maybe FIRST should take time at the competition to celebrate the awesome things in team's chairmans award submissions? If I knew half the things these powerhouse team's did for others, completely unrelated to their dominant competition robot, I'd have a much harder time jumping to vilifying them.

-Mike

Re: Another Culture Change
 

Your blog post was very thought provoking. Now I need to think and reflect on it some more...

Re: Another Culture Change
 

I'm horrified that any FIRST team would have behavior like that, and I express my apologies to 1114 that they had to bear that.

Winning may create jealousy but this is not the way to act. FIRST isn't about who wins and loses, it isn't even about the robots.

I spent three days at the WPI regional helping two inner city teams be able to pass inspection. These teams were made up of mostly poor students from bad areas. And yet they cheered just as loud as the world champion team in attendance. These teams were lucky to get their robots on the field, and neither managed to have a working arm or deployment. But I saw that same inspiration in their eyes. Talking with another volunteer I heard them say that they consider them among the best teams there, and I was confused. They went on to say that the teams come from some of the worst schools in the state, and that they receive almost no funding, but that their students are in the top ten percent for the state's test scores. They consistently have students all go on to college, some even to MIT. One student told me about his national scale winning science fair project as we worked on the robot. That is what FIRST is about to me. The inspiration that brings even those in the worst conditions onto a level where they can change the world.

The competition and the robots are tools towards a goal, means toward an end. The goal is to inspire. 1114 should inspire the teams towards greatness and towards that level of competition and excellence. The goal of FIRST isn't to have teams dominate with fantastic machines, it is a preference for sure, but the real goal is to show students what they are capable of, what we all are capable of, and to drive them towards a better future with a gracious heart.

To all teams, remember that FIRST is about how we act, who we are, and what we will become, and what you will go on to do. To act that way is not a reflection of what anyone should aspire to.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

John, it took a while to read through your blog; I read it over several times. I am truly disgusted by how some reacted towards Team 1114. This is simply ignorance.

I have encountered the same situation with a mentor this past weekend where I was told by him that team 233's students don't do a thing and it just seemed all engineer built. I simply asked him to watch the Pink team closely throughout the weekend. His view on the Pink team changed completely at the end.

I suppose until you see it for yourself, it is hard to believe what these students are capable of.

For some, the case is to jump to a conclusion right away... simply known as an ignorant. I wish some would take their time to just stop by one of the elite team's pit just for 15 minutes and ask, "How do you do this?"


... Oh, and just in case any of those people who put any of these elite teams down, why don't you try to asking them to share their ideas and designs with you? You will be surprised by how much help you will get from them.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

John-

I was reading your blog and I just have to say I'm generally disappointed in many things going on. Sure, I've seen a little team-bashing here and there due to the competitive spirit, but targeting one team like that is crossing the line. It's almost a form of bullying or even harassment, which FIRST, I think, strives to prevent. I'm going to talk with the team before embarking to our regional to make sure our team at least preserves the Gracious spirit of FIRST.

Eunice

Re: Another Culture Change
 

I apologize if I restate anything posted before me; I've been working on this post since the thread started.

The more times I read your post, the more sickened I feel.
My first reaction was shock- everything I have seen, heard, and read about the Simbots has been proof of the quality organization that they run and the professionalism of their students and mentors. The help they provide to the teams they work with is phenomenal, and watching them work with 3492 in the pits next to ours during eliminations was a fantastic sight. That anyone would treat any other FIRST team in such a manner, especially a team of such upstanding reputation, is appalling.

That shock quickly subsided- I hadn't witnessed the occurrences specifically listed in your blog, but I had seen similar events over the course of the regional. The lack of professionalism shown by a handful of people in Pittsburgh was disgusting.

On behalf of my team: If 1114 chooses to return to Pittsburgh again in the future, they will have a friend in 2614-Team MARS.

EDIT:
Please note: We are MARS. We are 2614. We wear white and red. We are often confused with another team with a similar number. This has caused us numerous issues in the past in interactions with inspectors, field crew, awards presentations, and other teams at multiple events. We do not tolerate, condone, or support any actions anywhere close to the behavior presented towards 1114 this weekend.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

The Robowranglers consistently put out great robots, and more importantly, great students. Anyone who falls under the impression that powerhouse teams have mentor-built robots needs only to look at the students for their answer.

I haven't been in FIRST for a very long time, but it's pretty easy to notice who's doing the work on a robot. 148, 1114, 217 are all teams that fall under criticism for having mentor built robots, but I have NEVER seen a mentor from any of these teams even touch the robots at competition. Meanwhile, many "midrange" veteran teams have packs of mentors taking care of everything. It's easy to point fingers and try to draw attention away from yourself. I'll admit, I once did this as a student.

I'm now trying to build my team with a stricter set of values. FIRST isn't about acting kindly to everyone in an attempt to be a gracious professional. There shouldn't be any acting involved. We know we aren't going to be the best team out there, but we try to do our best. We applaud those who also do the best they can, especially if their best is better than ours.
Teams need to stop worrying about who's doing what on other teams and concentrate on doing the best they can with what they have and keeping the students in charge and in line.