Re: Another Culture Change
 

Which is exactly what we need to do - transform the jealousy into motivation. Was there a specific instance that "turned on the light" for you to be able to make this leap? What can we as leaders do to instill in others a similar reaction?

Re: Another Culture Change
 

As previously stated in this thread, I used to be the jealous one. It was not until 2006 Champs when I met the teams we refer to as the "powerhouses" that I became motivated to step up to their level.

Yes, just by putting a robot on the field we become successful. However, most human nature tends to not be satisfied with the bare minimum. This being said, I have since graduated and went to college. My team has since taken leaps forward. Some of our first generation members are making it through college and returning to the area to work. What is the significance of this? We are building the connections to allow us to go the next step. We have more trained mentors in the fields we were once lacking.

I have spent numerous hours researching and asking questions to such people that are very insightful. I can tell that they are very helpful and offer more than a simple answer. We have not only wanted the help on the technical side of our team, but also on the non-technical side. We have since won a RCA this year and this would not be possible without the help of others.

How did we take these steps?
It was easy once we got over the fact that we were not those teams, and we have to apply what we have learned to the scope of our team.
- sit down and do some research, ask questions - they will answer
- go after new sponsors, targeting the capabilities you desire (we added machine shops that provided limited machining capabilities)
- set out a time line of events (take small steps, change is often hard at first)
- "offseason" is a critical R&D period, we finally went with a omni-directional drive and will be optimizing a swerve drive we developed in the off-season
- don't be afraid to fail, we all hit bumps in the road. It is how we get passed them that sets us apart

The list goes on. We have slowly transformed over the past 3-4 years to what we are today. We have one more year left on a plan we made, and now we are starting to set goals for the next several years.

For what is worth, do not judge a team based on web-appearance. Take the time to get to know them. I have had no issue getting help from them. Feel free to ask me questions about our transformation process, granted we are not a powerhouse team.

One last note: Remember to have fun during the process!

Re: Another Culture Change
 

We apparently have vastly different interpretations of 'failure.' You're basing failure on our team's final product on the field. By that measure, yes we typically succeed.

What most people don't see are all the failures that lead up to ultimate success. Our secret isn't that we don't fail. The secret is that we typically fail early and often enough in the season so we have time to to recover and fix the failures. Most of the great teams operate this way. The other secret, as others have stated, is that we don't settle for bad solutions. If one of our designs is a failure, we improve it until it works.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

I find the discussion about how teams operate and build their robots interesting. I know that doing well is very important. Why? It is much easier to convince your school system/sponsors to continue the support when you do well and bring home hardware. Student enthusiasm is also difficult.

However, the real issue here is teaching the mentors to mentor. We have one mentor, very hard working and spends lots of time at the shop. He is beyond dedicated. He knows EXACTLY how his part of the bot needs to be built and tells the kids what to do, and lets them do the building under his direction. His subteam size tends to dwindle towards the end of the build season. He likes to tell other mentors how their team needs to build their part of the bot.

We have another mentor, also dedicated, also spends much time at the shop- but only with his subteam. He also knows EXACTLY how his part of the bot needs to be built. But instead of saying "this is what we need to do", he helps the students come to that place on their own. Sometimes it is a longer process to get there, and sometimes he has to use breadcrumbs to get them there. Sometimes they come up with brilliant ideas that he feels exceed his and they implement. Sometimes the team comes up with a plan that is the "same thing only different" than an otherwise standard design. He would usually go with the student based design rather than standard design (all else equal).

The difference is that subteam 1 works fast, efficient, and although built by the students, they feel like employees rather than team members. They are given chores, and a timeline. Their input does not feel valued. Subteam 2 has team members that are consistent, give up date night, and wake early for their meetings on Saturday. They do homework together so they can work more on the bot. They see their mistakes, and seek out assistance from their team members, mentor, and other resources. They learn, and they get excited about the process. They are proud of their creation.

Both mentors are wonderful people. Both want to teach the students. One is successful in teaching more than manual skills. One teaches teamwork and design.

Mentor classes to teach team building and how to encourage leadership and creativity, and how to be inclusive on your team would be a fabulous thing!

Re: Another Culture Change
 

I'll preface this with 2 statements:
1. By "you" I mean "putting you in our shoes for a second".
2. We don't have a single banner. Yet the lack of banners is hardly an indicator of impact.

So you strive for the CA blue banner 1 year. Then you do it again for another 3-4 years, only to never be told why you're not good enough for the #1 spot in CA. The judges comments are all positive or vague. Your outreach is so insane the school board took it over because they didn't want you dealing with so much responsibility. The sheer numbers of people who've gone through programs your team started is somewhat unbelievable. Your programs have been recognized nationally with multiple awards, your DOE-approved STEM curricula have been implemented in multiple other states, 1/4 of your alumni still mentor or volunteer in FIRST, 50% of your students learn so much they get paid internships over college students, you've started the FRC/FTC/FLL teams that FIRST encourages for growth, and you/your team have been interviewed for 4 books, 2 TV shows, and featured in a couple of (mostly local) print articles. Out of breath yet?

In the end, you forget about the blue banner. The blue banner is an obsession that makes you feel like some puppet master is dangling a carrot just to play mind games with anyone who's interested. What really matters is impact, and that impact worth far more than the fabric or even the symbolism that a CA banner is made of. This becomes even more evident when you realize that an increasing amount of teams & regional events means that there is less chance you'll be noticed amongst the many interviewing for the award.

Which is why this year, we're striving for a robot banner. Woohoo!

Re: Another Culture Change
 

Moot. Winning a blue banner is nice, but that's all it is. It is the striving for the blue banner that matters.

Competition fosters excellence -- that's all I'm saying.

I couldn't agree more.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

I could not agree more. After attending the Chairman's Chat at last year's Championships, our team took a totally different approach this year.

We did not do things for the sole purpose of the Chairman's Award (CA). We set out to do things that met the following criteria:
1. benefited the community in a positive way
2. could use the opportunity to pass on the importance science and technology
3. we felt like it was the right thing to do
4. it needed to be fun

Based on these requirements we set up events and made appearances. The end result, a fun way of spreading the STEM imitative to the local area. Yes, we ended up winning the Chesapeake RCA. We knew what we did was great (same scenario as you Jesse), to get a banner (our first in 10 years of existence) was just icing on the cake. We have more events lined up. Why? Because as a team we feel they are important, not because of a blue banner.

This is the approach we took. CA gives you a generic starting point, but be creative in the solutions and make sure you are doing things for the right reason.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

(Your post prompted me to say this, but it isn't in direct response to your situation).

Some mentors are more effective at teaching students than others, but I don't think we should judge people on their preferences of mentoring. Every team and every mentor has a different way of helping and inspiring students. Every student has a different way in which they need to be helped and a way in which they are inspired.

Every team operates differently. Just because some teams operate differently than your team doesn't mean their way is wrong. Apparently root of the problem in this thread is that some teams thought 1114 had the "wrong approach" to making a robot. Their approach inspires students; their students have fun; their students learn. That's all that matters. Just because your team does it in a way that you perceive to be correct, doesn't mean other teams are cheating. 1114 is wonderful; they've inspired me and many others. Whatever they are doing is working.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

Identify the root causes, acknowledge them, and educate in an on-going manner - team level, area level, and region level.

John provides insight by suggesting small shifts. Eventually, the culmination of small shifts creates a large shift. They already have if a small group can be fingered as the ones behind the booing, rather than an entire arena filled with boos. The shift is occurring and it, too, should be acknowledged and sustained as it develops.

A factor that should be explored is the overwhelming nature of mentoring. Yes, there are areas that provide workshops to help mentors. How many areas provide a time for mentors to understand a part of the big picture so that they can continue to grasp it and help it develop? How many areas have created a place/space for mentors to be allowed to share their doubts/concerns/frustrations and then help them turn those into fun challenges seeking creative and innovative solutions?

The minibot has created a place here in CD where some wonderful exchanges and food for thought have occurred and will likely continue to occur. Yes, it has been controversial. What's wrong with that? Why is that a negative? Are growing pains negative or are they productive, as painful as they are, when one grows through them? In the area that I'm from, turning 16 is a big deal. Change occurs when driving becomes a new development in a teen's and a family's life. 18 becomes a big deal when the teenager is viewed as an adult and has responsibilities and opportunities that were not there before. 21 is another milestone. All of those changes bring opportunity but they also bring added responsibility and some stress/tension/worry/concern. The 20th anniversary is a milestone and I think the game has reflected that. It has given all of the teams, old and new - an opportunity to see what our community is made of and how strong we are - how well-developed we are. How tough we are. How we face new challenges. Many of us talk about the beauty and inspiration behind innovation. Well, more than robots can be innovative - so can a FRC game. We all shifted. In our postmortems, many of us will look at the shift and determine how well we did as a team. Perhaps, some of us will look at the shift and determine how well we did as individual leaders. I hope the 25th anniversary provides an opportunity for another shift and that the community is curious enough and cares enough to explore it and think about and talk about it, like we have with the 20th.

Jane

Re: Another Culture Change
 

I wonder if this could this be a root cause of being accused of having a mentor-built robot: your robot looks like something that many students on other teams don't know how to build

What are some ways to change this mistaken perception?

Re: Another Culture Change
 

I am appalled and embarrassed by what FRC 1114 experienced and inspired by their reaction. I hope my team (FRC 2789) has an opportunity to interact with this team at some future Regional; they deserve a much warmer welcome and much more positive and gracious interactions.

Also, thank you FRC 148 for developing another awe-inspiring robot this year. Video of your robot hanging 2 ubertubes during autonomous has captivated the imagination of the administration at my school. They want to WIN (we are the only varsity sport on our campus) and they view your team as the team to beat. Because you are so awesome, they are finally starting to understand the resources we need to assemble in order to build and sustain a great FIRST team. They are FINALLY letting our team submit proposals to acquire more tools and more space so we can begin building the on-site machine shop we need to build good robots.

I can also tell that FRC 148's students belong to a team with great culture, mentorship and training because they spent a lot of time in our pit during the Alamo Regional helping us fix our minibot deployment system. Thanks again for this assistance.

Finally, JVN, I think you're an alien. That is one the highest compliments I give people. It's what I call people that are so good that they are not of this earth. When I grow up, I want to be an alien, like you.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

A start would be to create another thread, Jim. With this information and question, asking for suggestions/ways that can help bring about change. This thread is exploratory in nature - that thread could be more specific in nature. Just a thought.

Jane

Re: Another Culture Change
 

This is a really cool book that talks about changing cultural behaviors:
http://www.amazon.com/Influencer-Pow...=AG56TWVU5XWC2

This particular thread addresses at least 2 of 6 areas (according to the book) that are required to influence change.

I will leave it at this otherwise I will explode with a rather lengthy post on this subject...

The Student vs. Mentor debate is (in my opinion) the "Guinea Worm" of FRC.

Re: Another Culture Change
 

Go for it, Ike. :) Teach us.

Jane

Re: Another Culture Change
 

Hee hee. I love getting positive and negative reputation for the same comment. It makes me think I said something worth expending neurotransmitter time on...