A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Call me old and grumpy, but I've really had enough of the noise. And I don't really mean the cheering or the music. I've mentioned this in previous years, but lately it has really gotten out of hand.

Yesterday, I visited the San Diego regional. It took me all of about 10 minutes after my arrival to find myself having someone YELLING ROBOT! at the top of their lungs right behind me. There was no impending danger of anything. There was nobody late for their match. And it was loud. So loud in fact, you could hear it all the way across the arena. And it builds. One person yells it, then another person yells it. Then the people in the surrounding 4 pit areas yell it, thinking they are helping. At one point, I was knocked into and nearly run over by a team yelling ROBOT! as if the act of being obnoxious gave them the right to shove everyone else out of their way.

What is with young people and this sense of entitlement?

For any outsider to FIRST visiting the pit area, it would have been downright terrifying to have these people yelling so loudly. It was not pleasant, at all.

If you're yelling ROBOT! you're:

1. Being annoying
2. Being obnoxious
3. Being arrogant
4. Being rude
5. Creating noise pollution, in an already dangerously loud environment
6. Not doing a darn thing to contribute to anyone's safety. Most of the time, y'all yelling "ROBOT" are a mob of a dozen ancillary members who serve no actual purpose in getting the robot to the field. Your mob of people yelling "ROBOT" creates more congestion in the isle-ways than if a couple people just quietly and calmly went through.


So here's what I ask, when you are transporting your robot:

1. Do it slowly. Do not think it's okay to just barge through a large group of people. Do not think you'll make it okay because you're transporting a robot. Do not think you'll make it okay by yelling "Robot!"
2. WAIT for people to move out of your way. Be patient. The pit area is a slow-moving place. People like to wander and mosey around. It creates a hazard when you run through it with a large robot often placed unstably on a cart.
3. Quietly and politely say "excuse me." Tap a person on the shoulder if you need to.

Here's the bottom line. When you're moving your robot, you only need to worry about what's maybe 6 or 8 feet ahead of you.

I should not be able to hear you from 200 feet away.

.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I support this :)
Us hapless scouts do not enjoy being mowed down by rapidly-moving carts, either.
I suppose the idea is that if the cart is moving rapidly enough, and if one yells loudly enough, the sound will precede the cart, people will move out of the way, and you can just press forward at ever-increasing speeds. In reality though, I really doubt that the robot+cart is moving that fast and if it is, it's a safety hazard.

Thank you! Looking forward to our Week 4 regional!

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I do support this, although I'm usually the one yelling so that people know we're coming. Half the time it's people socializing in the middle of the aisle, and they should just move over to the side of the aisle, and not congest the middle. I never yell if there is no one in the way, and only ever loud enough to get the peoples attention. i have seen teams being alot more obnoxious about it, but i think what we really need a plea for is more observant and alert people in the pits that can see robots coming. that way their legs, and my voice, can be saved.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Personally I find it very useful, but they tend to be slightly rude at times. I find myself thinking too much and zoning out as even I am walking (very unsafe). Those who yell bring me back to reality.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I agree and disagree. Sometimes its helpful, especially when you're one of the socializers in the middle of the walkway (I confess and apologize). However, if it takes a lungful to shout it, then yeah: its overkill. Also, I can remember transporting a robot; there isn't always time to go slower (lots of repairs, forgot to change bumpers, etc), and rarely did I have an extra hand to tap someone -the lots of someones in the aisle- and ask them to move aside.

Also, visitors in the pits either a) know whats going on and aren't alarmed by the announcement of the oncoming robot or b) don't know what happens behind the curtain and aren't aware that teams have to transport their robot in a timely manner- thus they need the memo.

Proclamation: Nessicary in congested areas
Volume: Should be reasonable- loud enough to be heard within 7-8 seconds walking distance, but not across the entire pit.
Running Over People: Not acceptable. <not serious>As a safety captain, I have to say that</ns> Injuring people (or potentially injuring people) in the name of getting to queuing (or for any reason) is not okay. Ever.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Far too often, yelling "ROBOT" means, "Get out of MY way!" It shows arrogance - where I want to go is of primary importance. And it all becomes a case of crying wolf - nobody pays attention anymore.

If there is a crowd of people in the pit aisle, simply ask them to let you get your robot past. There's no need to yell at them. The only time you need to shout is if someone unexpectedly moves into your path - then it is a safety issue because it probably is easier for that person to jump out of the way than it is to stop the robot from hitting him.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Fully agree with this thread. It drives me nuts to see people obnoxiously yelling ROBOT as they bombard their way through the pit area.

In my 11 years of FIRST, I have always found the following technique to be the most effective at getting through a crowd of people:

Have one of your team members get in front of your robot (not the one pulling the cart, a separate person, possibly the one carrying the control box). As you move through the pit at a moderate pace, have the person in the front politely say "Excuse us" or "Excuse me" to people who are 10-15 feet in front of the moving cart. If someone is in the aisle gently tap them on the shoulder or corral them off to the side, simple as that.

You WILL get to the field faster this way, and the rest of us will be grateful for the sheathing of the obnoxious ROBOT call.

-Brando

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I can't say that I agree with everything said here.

BUT, it does agitate me when teams are going for that elusive safety award and they assign their loudest people to escort teams from their pits to the fields (Perhaps in a last ditch, yet successful effort to get these people out of their pits). These people have the shiniest vests, the brightest batons, and the most piercing voices. I remember at Worlds, I could hear some of these people from clear across the pit area.

The above has to stop. From a competitor's standpoint, when it's Saturday morning and you're tired and perhaps you've had a rough event, it tends to get really freaking annoying.

But I suppose hearing "Robot" is somewhat of a FIRST tradition, but in some ways, it's gotten to be too much.

- Sunny

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I found the best way to slice through pit crowds is to carry a clipboard and look like you know where you are going. People just seem to slide out of your way. :)

I think people yell "Robot!" because it is hardwired in. IIRC, this practice started with the new emphasis on the safety awards (2007?, I can't remember) when they started chastising you if you didn't have two people walking in front of the robot yelling. I've been directly chastised for not yelling before.

I think the best way would be to have the safety inspectors go around telling people to make teams aware, but not yell. Then the teams gunning for the safety award would go around making people aware... and then the pits quiet down.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

The general obnoxiousness is relatively new, and completely unnecessary.

I've always taught my students that robots have the right of way in the pits, but that just like with driving, right of way must always be surrendered, not taken.

We generally put one person out front 5-10 feet to gently ask people to move, and who only raise their voice if they are (a) not heard or (b) ignored (which does sometimes happen).

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Definately will be telling my team, it just seemed like the way to go for robotics never really noticed that it bothered anyone. Funny thing is that we told our freshmen if they heard this get out of the way.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Your comment I believe is why this practice will never go away. For some teams its a celebrated and well-rehearsed routine. For many people new to FIRST, they see this practice happening and assume its just the way its done.

Does it get people out of the way? Yeah, probably.
Is it sometimes so over the top that it causes distractions and irritation? You bet.

There's definitely a compromise somewhere in there.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

While screaming "Robot" in the pits is unecessary the business of the pits do come first. I drive fork truck for a living so I have to be mindful of people in the way at all times and it greatly annoys me when people use the ailses too hold drawn out conversations when I have things to do. The same goes for the pits. If you are just aimlessly hanging about the pits you need to be elsewhere as far as I'm concerned. You are keeping teams from getting to the field and many of them are are often running late and need to get there ASAP.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

True and one of the things is our mentor has noise canceling headphones, but truth be told you shouldnt have your entire team chilling in the pits. Dont take up more space then your alloted and really look to see if there are robots coming and move if they are, and the one kid who just posted the stuff above, thats inappropiate, im always fooling around at robotics but that was way to far.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I'll never forget the scene in Atlanta, 2008 when we were the first match after lunch on Friday with Simbotics. We had been fighting a drive trainsmission issue all day and took lunch to rebuild the transmission. At 12:58 we left the pits, and with the help of many forward advancing units had a clear pathway to (literally) run with the robot all the way from the pits to the field. We set it down at 1:02 (or so).

Not a single person (that I could hear) yelled 'robot'. There were some 'excuse me's, some 'coming through' and a 'we're late, look out!' or two, but I would say they were for a purpose that time.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I agree that there has to be a happy middle ground here. And this comes from a team that has those " shiny vests and the bright batons". We do not do this to be annoying or to win an award. We do this because of the near misses that have occurred with people getting nicked or prodded with an oncoming cart.

We do not teach or students to scream robot but do ask them to politely say: "excuse us, robot coming through" if people ahead of them appear to disregard the danger or do not realize they are in the way.

My observation is that the problem is generally not with other teams (sometimes) but with visitors in the pit area. They just stand there in front of you and sometimes give the kids a dirty look because they are being inconvenienced because they need to move a couple of feet. Teams understand quickly about the dangers of the moving carts. Visitors need reminders.

My gut feeling is that this practice will not go away but can be better monitored. The safety inspectors made a big deal out of our team practice last year at a regional and actually made an announcement telling other teams to watch us as they paraded us and down the isles showing people the "right way". Were we screaming robot? NO. Were we we saying:" excuse me, robot coming through"? YES!

For the record, our team has won many safety awards including the national UL safety award. These awards are NOT won by screaming robot. It is a complete program that is ongoing throughout the year. It is a culture and an expectation for all students and mentors. We take safety very very serious. It is NOT an afterthought or a gimmick to win a plastic trophy. We believe that we are preparing our students for a healthy life after high school.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

honestly if you standing in the isle of the pit then you aren't the priority the teams who spent 6 weeks building an awesome machine should be able to navigate the isle without having to wait on large packs of people standing in front of a pit to move. Sure we shouldn't yell it i never yell it i just say it loud enough so that the people in that large pack can move into the pit while our robot passes by.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Perhaps the next time I hear someone shouting "Robot" behind me, I'll simply turn around and say "And?". If a conversation ensues, maybe I'll remind them that "Robot" isn't a complete sentence.

If enough people do that, folks will sooner or later learn that shouting "Robot" does not relieve them of an obligation to use both their brains and those manners their grandmother taught them.

Yelling "Robot" (and some of the other stuff that passes for creating a safe transportation environment) is not a well-thought out method for safely transporting a bulky, and often awkward and/or oddly shaped machine in a crowded aisle.

Blake

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I'm more annoyed with the stupid posters being plastered all over the place a whole lot more than the Safety Criers any day.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

This is a fake account. This student is not on Team 1114.

I'm really getting tired of all this junk...

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I cannot believe all of this. I am sorry that it had to come to this, and I am glad some people are speaking up like JVN, yourself and others. It is really sad that people have come to this. Can we please just remember what this program is about? It is about inspiring students and recognizing the importance of science and technology. It is right in the acronym.

Someone even went out of their way to create a fake account to make 1114 look bad. What has this come to?

1114, 148, and many other powerhouses inspired me, and I am sure many others too. Without them continuing to raise the bar each year, I would not have the drive to better our team.

I commend all of you guys for putting up with this, and I will be sure to speak up if I ever hear anything like this.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

So much for my team name idea.

Although I generally agree with the post, is it really any more annoying than the constant beeping sound coming from a fork truck? It gets your attention that something with more mass and velocity than you is coming your way and if you don't move you are going to be on the losing side of the momentum balance equation.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately, this fake account stuff has happened multiple times to our team. It's getting tiresome.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Oh my, you really hit it on the head. Those annoying, flammable, slippery, distracting posters that are more of a safety hazard than anything a robot or power tools themselves can cause.

Is it considered too much against GP to tell someone, "No thanks, we respectfully decline to post your 'No Robot Left Behind' or 'Safety FIRST' posters in my pit area"? I say "too much" because I'm okay with being just a TAD non-GP to things that annoy the bejeezus out of me.

-Danny

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

That sucks. Some people are just tools -- good for you guys for rising above it. (FYI, I assumed it was a fake account when I read it, and just ignored it.)

-------------

On the posters: I agree! I don't think we need, "Caution! Floor may be wet! Brought to you by team XXXX" plastered on the bathroom mirrors...

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Yes, it is really more annoying. Beeping vehicles are a specific signal that is easy to interpret, usually of reasonable volume and carrying distance, and relatively easy to ignore when appropriate. Shouting voices could mean many things, are entirely too loud when close by, and are always intrusive.

I would not mind a beeping robot cart. A bicycle bell might be more useful, though. Maybe I'll try contacting Mirrycle and asking them to donate to next year's Kit of Parts.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Possible solution: Get rid of the safety award. IMHO, the pit environment has been been harder to work in AND less safe since its inception.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Get people who don't need to be in the pits, out of the pits. If they aren't there to talk to judges/VIPs/guests/scouts, currently working on the robot, scout, or talk to alliance partners, they don't need to be there. I understand there will always be a certain degree of crowds in the pits, but the amount of people who congregate their is excessive and troublesome. There's no reason for a whole team to move from the stands to the pits after a match just to huddle around their robot and figure out what needs to be done. A few people can diagnose the issues and get the necessary people from the stands. Or have a designated "pit crew" if that's how your team prefers to operate.

At Championship, it's one thing with the hike between the fields and the pits. At regionals, it's another. Please, please, PLEASE get extra people out of the pits.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I've always responded to the cries of, "robot!" with, "person!" I always get startled looks. It's fun.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Close your eyes and think. Can you imagine a quiet pit area? Aside from the announcer and the audience, you'd have a quiet competition. I think the noise is what helps make it so exciting!

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

At the Alamo Regional, I asked the safety captains to go that extra mile and be the eyes of the the pit crew and also the eyes of what was going on around them. We had so many rookie teams that I wanted them to experience looking around and staying aware of what was going on.

I also asked the safety captains on the corner pits to be mindful/watchful of robots coming through and to help keep the aisle in their area, clear. The teams that I asked did an extraordinary job of keeping things moving without hazard.

One area that can continually be improved upon is talking with the team before the event and having a plan to keep the pit safe, the aisles around them clear, and be a part of keeping the flow smooth. Excited happy teams can really clog the aisles, grouping together or individually. Being mindful of that, especially as Saturday rolls around, is very helpful. It has nothing to do with yelling, 'robot coming through', it has everything to do with each team doing their part to control their area and keep it clog-free.

Jane

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Well, on a safety note, we took decibel readings in the pit area at the Milwaukee regional. Our calculations said that you should be wearing ear plugs if you stayed in the area for more than 4 hours.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

While at the Waterford District, we had seemingly endless problems with our robot on Friday, and were frequently working right up until the "Please send your human player" call. While I agree that screaming robot is often unnecessary, when we were running that late, and there were groups of students standing in the middle of the aisle socializing, it seemed necessary.

As for the "echo" of robot-calls, that's annoying.

One robot call is usually sufficient, and if it is not, the call can be repeated at the discretion of the robot-movers.

This being said, I make sure only to call robot when we need to get to the field immediately.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I personally don't know how loud it is at Milwaukee, but at the Silicon Valley Regional, the noise level is reasonable. It's not too loud, but it's loud enough to make the competition exciting!

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

A lot of folks like to compare FRC to sports. In many sports, the action takes place on the field. The panic/stress/pressure/changes/improvements occur on the field and in the locker room/dugouts, etc., and visitors, guests, fans don't have access to those areas. The chaos/changes are contained and outside contributions to crowding and potential chaos are minimized, allowing teams to focus on the job at hand.

In FRC, there is a direct connection between the field activity and the pits. The distance between the two can contribute to stress and pressure on the teams competing, as they travel back and forth to maintain the level of competition that they are on or working to improve on.

In this area, the BEST robotics competitions that I've been involved in, have it over FRC, hands down. Only people who wear a badge/team name tag are allowed in the pits. The teams are given a certain number of tags at check-in and the team members can swap them out among themselves, as needed, but it keeps things running a lot more smoothly between the pits and the field(s). FRC invites everyone and their mother to tour the pits, enter the pits, camp in the pits, party in the pits. Then FRC expects a handful of safety advisors to maintain order by giving positive feedback through awards. Righhhhhht.

The way to establish order and allow the teams to excel in their competition is to keep the pits running/flowing smoothly and efficiently. Parents, fans, and guests don't expect to run to the dugout or the locker room during innings or half-times. They deal with it. They can deal with it in robotics, too. There could be times built into the competition for guests and visitors to visit the pits and get a tour but to be able to have ready access to the pits during the entire competition puts a lot of senseless stress/pressure on the competing teams.

Jane

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I wish CD had a like button. This thread is spot on.

Yes, I agree that people need to stay alert in the pits and stay clear of teams moving in and out, but shouting ROBOT as loud as you can it just annoying. It might actually, have the reverse affect because people, over time, may just tune it out.

I think what each team can (and should) do is limit the number of students in their pit to essential people only - 2 students, 3 at max. This is what our team does and it has two major effects:

1. Keeps the pit safe/organized
2. When our robot breaks, the best students are working on it which ensures that the robot is fixed as quick as possible and no time is wasted.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Can you please quote this "rule"?

I can understand the point the safety advisor was trying to make to you guys, but that just seems like blind advice. Sure, people will probably get out of your way as a parade of robot yelling passes them by, but there are better ways to do this that aren't terribly distracting.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

see my revised post above.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I agree. There are times when I wasn't even close to a robot on the move and still heard a earful of ROBOT. There are times when it is useful but if you are one of the only teams really moving on lets say Thursday, there isn't much use for it. I would prefer being tapped or asked nicely to step aside. There are visitors always in the pits and I'm not sure they will like being yelled at to move out the way. Gracious Professionalism. Now given there was times when I preoccupied with other things in my mind or talking to a student and I didn't hear a team or two. But that is only once in a great while.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I'm wondering if that happened at the safety captains meeting or if it was advice given to teams, individually.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I remember when I went to the state science fair in middle school and in both 7th and 8th grade there were times allowed for the regular public to come in and walk around and look but then there was a specified time where only judges could be in there with the students. I think this would be a good thing to implement and specify when others could come in after competition matches had been played for that day and go and look around and talk to the teams as they "show off" their robots.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

At Pittsburgh, we were at the end of an isle, right next to the queuing area. So we heard a lot of "Robot" calls.

One particularly stupid child (wearing green if I recall correctly) was pulling a robot cart, walking backwards, not looking where they were going, yelling AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS...

"Robot coming, I'm pulling a robot, and I'm walking backwards without looking where I'm going".

Seriously... When did announcing your stupid behavior make it OK?

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

They should have been stopped and that person replaced right there on the spot. And one of their mentors should have been told about it, immediately.

Jane

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Clearly, you don't pay much attention to politics... :D

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Not to be rude, but if you had read this thread you will already see many suggestions on how to do such a thing.

Believe me, I've done this for a long time now, and I've never shouted ROBOT..and guess what? I can't recall ever missing a match either...

-Brando

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

You are correct... I Don't :)

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Back in my day of cart-pulling as a driver, I generally liked to avoid the shouting of "robot" as well, generally sticking to a "pardon me" or "excuse us." If there's a large, congested, group of people just standing, I can understand a bit more urgency/volume, but there's no need to scream "ROBOT" if there's one person walking in front of you.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I can semi confirm this. One of the students on my team said they were told to yell robot by a judge*. I pointed out that it's a matter of discretion. If the walkway is clear, then you have very little reason to be yelling "robot". I'll definitely try and have them change tactics when transporting the robot. Or at least their tone of voice... :rolleyes:


* I'm not completely sure who told them. Nor do I remember which student it was, so I can't ask either.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

WHAT? SORRY! I CAN'T HEAR YOU SCREAMING LOUDLY BECAUSE OF THE OVERLY-LOUD BASS!

Sometimes it leaves me to wonder if it is really the problem of people just shouting too loudly or if the bass is too loud, requiring screaming at the top of students' lungs in order to get through the crowd, especially when large teams decide to spill out of their pit or having people who aren't used to seeing robots on carts looking at the robots in the middle of the isle. It is very hard sometimes to be heard over the music, so the "Excuse me... Robot..." becomes "HEY! GUYS! PAY ATTENTION! I NEED TO GET THE ROBOT TO THE FIELD SO WE CAN PLAY! HEY! CAN YOU PLEASE GET OUT OF THE WAY?"

So perhaps part of the solution is to turn down the music, not let people clog the isle and make sure new and or non FIRST people are aware that robots are almost constantly being transported around and they need to pay attention and remove themselves from mid-isle... ::ouch::

Just my $.02

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

This is exactly the problem. There is no need to notify the surrounding pits that your robot is coming through. The people in the surrounding pits don't need to know, don't care about your robot coming through, and don't need to hear your yelling. If you need to yell, you're doing it wrong.

The noise in there is already bad enough that I have to yell to someone standing right next to me, just so they can hear what tool to get from the box. Yelling over music and background noise is one thing. Yelling over other people yelling "robot!" is quite another, which I'd prefer to not do.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

What, you mean 120 decibels isn't an appropriate volume for music? You SHOULDN'T be able to hear it outside... across the street.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

My coach had a business call, and he ran across the street to our hotel in Milwaukee and he still heard light music.... O_O

Yeah, I'm thinking the music is a touch loud, no doubt adding to the issue [and the headaches. Still recovering -.-]

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Thanks for this post. I never considered before this that over the noise of the music and power tools, people yelling "robot" would be annoying to people.

I agree that visitors will find this very annoying, but at least at the Seattle Regional, it has proven to be a very effective way of getting people out of the (very cramped) isles.

This year there will be 100 teams at the two seattle regionals (run at the same time and venue), which means literally over a thousand people in the pits.

Keeping others' concerns in mind, however, I will be sure to pass on to my team that we should be mindful of our loudness as we transport our robot. I'm sure that we will stil lfind that we will need to yell "Robot coming through!" a few times, but we will do our best not to be obnoxious about it.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

The talk about the Kettering District makes something so much clearer to me now (and a little bit more frustrating):

I was standing in my pit area, talking to my fellow mentors about something when a young team walked by and screamed "ROBOT!" right in my ear...I was not in the way, and neither was anyone else, they just were yelling it about every five seconds.

I turned around and said, somewhat crossly, "Saying 'excuse me' is a much better way of clearing the path."
The poor student replied with, "'ROBOT' *is* FIRST for 'excuse me'" and then kept walking along.

It seemed to me that there was much more yelling of "ROBOT" at the Kettering District than at any other event that I've attended, and I'm now wondering if it was because someone directed teams to do this. ....which is utterly absurd. If you were that person, please stop, it bothers me. :)

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

It's precisely this type of behavior that caused me to start this thread. It truly is odd how widespread this is, like instructions were announced in some mass e-mail I didn't get.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Much like the phrase "Graciously accept" or calling the Championships "Nationals" this is one of the forms of FIRST crabgrass/dandelions that is stubbornly rooted. Only sustained weeding over a long time will be able to uproot it; and if you ignore it, it won't go away, instead it will just dig in deeper and spread.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Kettering was my FIRST, FIRST event as a mentor. On Friday we were *instructed* (chastised) that we were not notifying correctly when moving to and from the pit. On Saturday, I made it point that when we were passing the Pit check-in table to *kit it up a notch* with my ROBOT! announcement.

I also herd that there was an injury on Friday at Kettering, which may have attributed to the emphasis in which my ROBOT! calling instruction was delivered.

It sounds like others also received this instruction at Kettering.

Sorry if my Robot! offended anyone... :(

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Someone needs to remind our venues that the event is now the FIRST World Championship and not Nationals, http://twitpic.com/25aumb/full

It was my understanding (I was, regrettably, locked in my room doing homework that day) that that injury was related to a student's hand trying to occupy the same space as a chain and sprocket. Besides, I don't understand how being obnoxiously loud is any safer than a polite "Excuse us". Guess I'm just old fashioned.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

The problem is that you have several issues:

1. Too many people yelling robot way too loud! I never had our kids yell robot but, "Excuse us, robot coming through" worked just fine along with kindly asking.

2. Overcrowded pits. I don't understand why teams have 15 people in their pit at one time! To make it better these are the teams who have a ton of storage/shelving in their pits so they all spill in the aisle. I came back from a match to find several members of one such team in our pit working on their programming because our table was clear! :mad:

Unfortunately at events like Championships where there is plenty of room in the pit aisles but at regionals there isn't a lot and I don't understand how it is servicing our sponsors and parents when the pit is so crowded. I wish that FIRST and teams would become more proactive in enforcing smaller pit crews.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I agree..to an extent. I do believe that calling out "ROBOT" is essential to safety. I've seen teams that don't do that and who are pulling the robot backward crash into other people. I do agree that the music is up way too loud. Our team takes decible readings and in the pit I was getting 97 DCB and in the stands up to 102 DBC keep in mind that over 85 is dangerous fro more that 8 hours and over 95 for more than 4 hours. After 85 DBC, in factories, OSHA requires workers to wear ear protection. We keep earplugs in our pit for our memebrs and anyoner else who wants them. DJs, please keep the music a bit lower!

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Over the last few years, Various members of our team have been told by the Safety Judges that someone should be leading the cart, clearing the way for the robot and drive-team. I don't remember ever being told to yell "Robot", I think it's just something that people believe to be the proper procedure.

Usually, our preferred method of clearing the way is saying "Excuse us, Robot coming through" in a slightly louder than normal voice.

Interestingly enough, this is all I could find in the safety manual on the topic of robot transportation:

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I will add my (quiet) voice to those asking for a quieter pit.

I believe that the biggest part of the problem is the music volume in the pit area. When people must yell to be heard from a distance of 5 feet or so, there is a problem!

I agree with Jane. A regulation as to the number of people in the pit may be appropriate if we can't find another way to keep things safe.

-Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I completely agree with this, shouting "ROBOT" is completely obnoxious. However, saying "robot" at a normal volume for those about 5 feet in front of the robot, isn't. It's simply a way of saying, "heads up a robots coming through" in an easier way. It has become a common phrase in FIRST that is perfectly acceptable if used at a normal volume. Therefore, I woulds say that the word "robot" is not obnoxious unless it is screamed at an unusually loud volume.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

At Florida, a lady at the announcement desk (which was at the exit from the pit to the stadium) asked our team to yell ROBOT. Later in the day as the drive team got silly and some other team coming out with us started saying "miscellaneous robot parts" "toolbox" "Human Player" coming through. I personally don't care and see it as all part of the FIRST flavor of the whole thing, like circus barkers. I like the traditions we've created like that. However at nationals when an over zealous safety captain wearing a reflective suit wants to escort us I think that's unnecessary.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Although technically unnecessary, it CAN help. Visitors to the pits might not know how much room to leave in front of a robot cart, but if someone who is clearly leading the cart is there, they might realize that it is the best idea to cut in front of the cart and the escort.

On a related note, I was once at Windsor Castle while they were in the process of closing it to the public when suddenly a guard SHOUTS "MAKE WAY FOR THE GUARD" and plows through the crowd without waiting for or walking around anybody. Seconds later another guard walks by and some tourists ask for a picture and he stopped and posed for them.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

The fact of the matter is that yelling should be the exception rather than the rule.

People in charge of getting the robot to and from the field should be responsible for being alert, attentive, aware. The people in the pits should be responsible for being alert, attentive, aware - and keeping their area clear. How much effort is really given to using common sense and keeping your area clear? In areas where teams gather in the pits, in large clumps - who is responsible for breaking that up? The individual teams in the area get rid of/eliminate their share of the large clump and, presto, it disappears.

As the weekend progresses, more people are yelling: people are yelling, "SAFETY GLASSES", "NO RUNNING", and "ROBOTS COMING THROUGH". Some of this is just silly. If teams are becoming flippant and walking backwards, yelling jokes, not staying alert, not wearing their safety glasses, or running, then they are well on their way to creating problems. Why do this?

If you pay attention to the teams who are consistently on the field on Saturday afternoons, they don't have a lot of time for horseplay or goofing around in the pits and neither do their supporters. They all have a job to do. If you wonder why you don't make it to eliminations consistently, you can look at the little things like how you manage your robot/time as a team, on the field and in the pits. You would be surprised at what you would discover if you took the time to look. Little things add up and become a general attitude.

The volunteers are awesome. The venues go out of their way to have as good a flow of traffic as they can to help in pulling off an event that starts and ends on time. A lot of planning goes into the pit area but, once the teams enter, they are the ones who have to take on the responsibility of keeping things going smoothly and efficiently. Unnecessary yelling and careless handling of the robot/cart and pit are not part of that.

Jane

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

The people at the desk asked us to do the same thing, the only problem was, there was no one in the hallway in front of us. :confused: Overall, they were doing a great job in keeping the pits safe though. No one could get in without safety glasses

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Just throwing this out there:

On the way back from inspection at NJ, it was just me and a mentor pushing the robot back to the pit minding our own business, not shouting ROBOT to everyone in sight. If someone got in the way we'd just say "excuse me, robot coming through" or something to them. A volunteer of some sort saw us, actually stopped us, and told me to walk back to the pit and get at least a total of 3 people. One to push, one to steer, and one to shout robot at the top of their lungs.

Yeah, we got pulled over for not shouting robot. I'm not saying anything about the volunteer, just saying we can't not shout robot

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

sigh. Not every volunteer speaks for FIRST, nor are they always the brightest bulbs in the pack.

I agree with this thread, shouting "Robot" boils my blood, and I'll stop here before I get in trouble.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

The point of yelling ROBOT is to get people out of your way. If there is noone in your way, then don't yell it.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

That bugs me! To make it better, a few of us learned that if you yell robot and a safety person is around, you got tokens. (this was a few years ago)

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I was walking our robot back to our pit from inspection today, and was told by a volunteer to "announce my robot," when there was nobody in front of me for at least 30 feet. I politely told her that there was no need, since there wasn't anyone in the way. The response that I got was mo more than "well, you should anyways", and it certainly wasn't near the polite tone I had respoded with before. I was also told to do the same by a team about three feet away from my pit on the way TO inspection: along the lines of "why aren't you yelling?" I could see a reason to mention my robot if the pits were heavily congested, but I found that simply saying "excuse me, can we get our bot through" was enough to get past the few people in our way as we turned a corner.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I think I remember the incident you are referring to, Brendan. The following happened to 1519 at GSR in 2006. We were taking the robot to the practice field, and were chastised by a safety judge for not having a student out in front of the robot, shouting "Robot". We complied with their request, and approximately 10s later were given a safety token by a different safety judge, who complimented us on our safety practices :)

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Haha, since they changed the system this year I didn't even bother yelling robot!

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

So, we've now heard of multiple instances of this administrative directive given at multiple events. It's coming from the top down. Whose brilliant idea was this?

And this is why as a community, we should work toward fundamental reform of the safety award (given that I don't think we'd ever see it's elimination altogether).

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Since the new way of doing safety tokens, I told my team to send someone out from about 5 or 6 feet to ask people to move politely. It has the exact same effect as screaming robot but much nicer.... One of the head safety people saw this and told us that for as long as he could remember, people screamed robot, but honestly, it is excessive and kind-of rude unless really needed [for those wonderful non-FIRST people staring in wonder with their ears shut :P].

I think if we ask the DJ's to turn the music down to a good level and ask politely before yelling, the pit will be a much nicer place :]

Good luck to all competitions running today, and may your pits be quiet :D

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Why not? It should be replaced with a comprehensive safety certification program.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Interestingly enough, we've won the Safety award a handful of times over the last few years (At least 3 or 4 times since 2006) and we rarely ever shouted robot... Usually we emphasize other aspects of the award like proper training for various incidents (10 or so kids are trained in CPR, Battery Clean up, basic First Aid and that sort of stuff) and we always add some sort of lifting handles to our robot that get us some extra points with the judges.

From what I can remember, the "Safety Nuisances" - those teams who send kids around the pits carrying signs, or passing out safety flyers - rarely win the award...

(I wouldn't mind to see the award eliminated, then our Safety Captain might stop scolding me...)

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Sorry, but that's not how it always works. I've been safety captain before and the safety judges' presence wasn't motivation for me, but I found that others could be persuaded by it. In other words, even if the award is eliminated, we should still be safe.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

That's where the breakdown is and where I can see room for improvement. Separate the awards from the actual safety aspect of it. I don't think safety should be awarded; I think it should be an expectation clearly spelled out. Mandatory robot yelling should be eliminated if it has, indeed, been mandated at some events. Jeepers.

Jane

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

There is a huge difference between safe, and annoying. Not placing your hand under whatever you're cutting when you use a jigsaw is safe. A 10 item safety checklist and approval form to get the jigsaw out is also safe, but annoying.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Dissing a team by trashing their work (monies, time, effort) is not cool.

Jane

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

To everyone else in the thread, I'm sorry about my rudeness here, but it's a sore point with me. As mentors we have a duty to inspire and lead by example, and his behavior has been anything but helpful in that regard.


Matt

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

A suggestion for the future - use your safety advisors. In a moment that you can spare, alert the safety advisors to the aggressiveness of the team distributing the fliers and how it was distracting your team while you were all working on the robot. That's not being a tattle tale, that's making sure that the safety advisors are aware of the aggressiveness of an enthusiastic team so that they can deal with it and get things settled down. You don't have to be sitting ducks and you shouldn't be - but you don't have to be mean or obnoxious, either.

Jane

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Your job, is to help these kids learn about STEM, not to win a robotics competition, if that means explaining to them how they can better accomplish their safety goals, then so be it. Also, you may want to consider how your language conveys your thoughts, and try to be more professional.

The proper response would have been to speak with their team officials and explained how they were going about this wrong, and that it was causing a problem. If that failed you, then you speak to the FIRST officials about it. There are many better options, both in terms of respect and effectiveness.

Now, I feel bad for derailing the thread, so I'm going to contribute and nudge it back on topic!

I think that teams shouting "robot!", are generally well intentioned, and I think are responding to the environment they're in. I'm not particularly bothered by it personally, but I do see how it could be a problem. Maybe it's time for someone to make up a nice little safety video for teams and see what FIRST thinks of it?

Things we could cover:

• Proper robot cart etiquette - how to move your robot around quickly and safely, and the best ways to get peoples attention without being disruptive
• Proper pit layout/crowd control - how to keep your pit from overflowing with people and tools and taking up too much space
• Proper ways to promote safety - let's face it, the current safety award and the typical attempts for it tend to cause more trouble than safety awareness, we can do better!

Let's work the problem!

Matt

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

oh, never mind, that does sound annoying.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Yelling "robot" should only be the case when people are crowding in the middle of the aisles. When no one's in front of us, we keep quiet.

I cannot stress enough to the freshmen members to not be obnoxious about it.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

At Seattle we had two regonals going at the same time in the same room. The volume of the music could not be turned up as loud as it would interfer with the other regonal. If teams can get people to move out of the way quietly that is great but I have seen folks hurt by a moving robot. I would rather have noise then someone hurt. We were at a regonal once and had to evacuate the hotel along with six other teams. We were the only team that could locate and count that we had all of our members. It is easy to anticapate an event after it has happin and to react like the TSA does. It is hard to plan for events before they happin. I command the teams that try to plan ahead for the "if's" that may or may not happin.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Boy this thread is starting to get rather chippy.
Who'da thunk that people would get so heated about the merits of safety criers.
Keep it up guys and next thing you know it'll end up in the Moderated Discussion Thread.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Aside from that, heading to Waterloo, I sure hope the music isn't too loud and people don't scream robot every few minutes. There are better methods than that for clearing a low density area. Also hope people don't forget GP as people seem to have lately.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I think one effective way to help teams get in and out of the pits is to have Pit Adman announce that the pits are a working area with lots of robot traffic and people need to be aware of robot traffic going back and forth and be ready to move out of the way when teams are moving back and forth. Crowd Control could also help with the crowding of the pits and critical access points (like the entrance and exit of the field area).

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I agree completely except for the replacing of the words "because of" with "based on". My post was stupid and rude but in no way does it represent everything I have ever done. And, while my comments must reflect negatively on me I do ask that everyone remember that we all make mistakes and say/do things we regret, please let us move on from this.

In short, thank you for calling me out. I appreciate it and realize that, from time to time, we all need a good smack to make us see when we screwed up and did something we shouldn't have.

Sorry for this, I'll try to do better in the future.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I think this is why people should call each other out. Tempers flare, words fly, and sometimes we don't always act our best. I'd be lying if I said I never lost my temper with a student, but I believe the only way to improve from that is to keep each other in check.

With that said, I was rather poignant with you, and for that I will apologize. I think we've all bared enough knuckles here. Mistakes will always be made, and I'm sure there's plenty of mine waiting to come up and swat me in the face.

I hereby rescind my overarching criticism of your ability to mentor, but for the sake of posterity I'm not going to remove or further edit my original posts.

Matt

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I have asked that my offending comment be removed due to the negative impact it could have on students reading it and viewing it as a criticism of the safety award and teams that actively seek it.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Just trying to get this thread back on to the original intent of the thread,
lets focus on the pits again:
Last year, i was a freshmen on team 461. I joined the second day of build season, and 9 weeks later, i found myself at the boilermaker regional. This was my first competition, so i did not know much about the whole thing. I did, however, know one thing: If You're not doing anything, get out of the pit. I stayed away the whole time, unless i needed one of the upperclassmen to help talk to another team. I also knew that, as i was walking around the other pits, lots of people would be trying to cart their robot around. I soon realized the conventional method was to yell, "Robot!". I caught on quickly, and was able to be alert of my surroundings. Sure, the yelling was a bit bothersome, but there is no reason for me to be complaining. It's a robotics COMPETITION. Don't get me wrong, its not a place JUST for robots to compete, but isn't the center of the event the robots? If you don't get your robot out in time, the volunteers, refs, etc. get mad, and then you're holding up the competition. You don't need to run to get to the field, but all the people standing outside of the pits in the cramped up little passageways probably aren't doing anything important, just socializing or something. If you really want to talk to a team, you can step inside their pit, or go outside. If there's no room to step into their pit, they probably have too many people inside of their pit. The key here is to observe your surroundings.
Now as a sophomore, i'm on the drive team, and just finished the boilermaker Regional this weekend. I had to yell ROBOT! many times, whether i enjoyed or not, but i know that it would have taken much much much longer to get through the traffic if i whispered excuse me. I'm not trying to be rude, arrogant or obnoxious, and frankly, its a bit arrogant of the OP to infer our intent and emotions when we say robot, but we are on a huge time constraint, and we can't waste time waiting for people to slowly meander out of the way. Again, i'm not saying they have to run out of the way or anything, just get out of the way safely and at a moderate pace, not too much to ask for.
Basically, what im saying is no matter what, trying to navigate your way through the pit is going to get aggravating, both for the people in the way and the people trying to get you out of the way. We're not being arrogant, we're not being rude, and we might be annoying, but you know what, i think you can deal with someone trying to get their robot on to the field to play the game.
The real issue here is that there are too many people in the pit area. The reason it gets too loud is because there are too many people in that area.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I couldn't agree more. I saw a lot of this at Boilermaker this year. There was times where we could barely get out of pits in general. Trying to get to the field was a nightmare because we had to get past the people watching the live feed TV and stats TV. Yelling robot was the only way of trying to around everyone safely. It also didn't help that some teams brought some trumpets or something. Luckily around our pit there wasn't to much yelling late into the competition because we were all of aware of the robots and no one had to yell. But like Duke said, there was too many people in the pits. At times we did empty our pit of un-needed team members (we only have 4 so it's hard lol). I would recommend some teams look at doing that. Not only does it speed up what you need to do, it also creates a safer environment for everyone trying to do everything.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Wow, that's amazing how we can just censor anything we want to when we want to. I hope lessons are as easy to learn as it is to censor.

Disappointed,

Jane

P.S. I am quite capable of sticking my foot in my mouth on occasion and I deal with the consequences, be they red reps, PMs of chastisement, or public posts of chastisement - but I deal with them and hopefully, I learn where I have crossed the line between mentoring and arrogance. It can happen to any of us and we have to stay aware of that and use wisdom in our mentoring and in our posts in CD.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Thank you,:)
It's very hard for us to control, we have 48 students, about 40 of them were there, but thankfully about half knew to stay out :p

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

I have no objections to having what I wrote on this subject deleted. A few years ago I was involved with a group that was GP with a person that was bad with the youth and we ended up shutting down to protect the youth. Since then protecting youth trumps all else. If my views are a little or a lot too stong and I offended others I am sorry.

I still feel that a double regional with the music not so loud is great.

PS. Never write to a forum when your cat is trying to lie on the keyboard while you type. It made my bad spelling worse.

Re: A plea for a quieter pit area
 

Before I was just frustrated. Now I've been to Long Beach, and I'm just completely baffled.

It appears that the Safety Advisors have specifically instructed teams to yell "ROBOT!" at ANY time they are moving their robot.

Additionally, if teams do not yell "ROBOT!", the safety advisors are telling them that they need to.

The result? Every team (including mine, that's another story... :-( )yelling their heads off any time a robot moves through the pit, and the surrounding 5 teams "helping" (yelling too) when there is not anyone in the way, for the WHOLE path to the field.

I yell back at them "There's no one in your way, why are you yelling?" But they're so caught up in yelling "ROBOT!" that I don't think they hear me.

It's really gotten out of hand, and it needs to stop.

Can a Safety Advisor please come on here and post the logic by which this is an acceptable practice? Whose idea was this, and what purpose does it serve? I really don't understand.

We have 10x15 pit areas.

We have 20-foot wide isles.

The whole pit area is free and clear. There is hardly ever anyone in the way here. Why are we yelling?