Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

This is completely wrong and really undermines your credibility regarding rules matters.


The rules have always stated that a target must be TRIGGERED to score with the appropriate definition in the Introduction section. FIRST has further clarified through Team Updates how the sensor system works. There are a number of reasons why a minibot may not trigger a tower, bu the Refs made the right call according to the rules and are not allowed to review video evidence.

I have been told that the ref closest to that tower was paying careful attention to 3278 and determined they were not touching the tower.

There are no grounds in the rules to replay that match unless a field fault could be identified. There are a whole ton of reasons a robot may lose connection to the field that don't involve a field fault.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

Yeah I meant refs.

They said the DQ was for having two redcards. I guess I was wrong in that regard, my bad.

It isn't the team's fault if there was a technical error with the pole, they should acknowledge that since many people saw it happen.

And there was still the blue bot on the red pole that was ignored.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

This is a little off subject, but what ever happened to rule G61?

<G61> The actions of an ALLIANCE shall not cause an opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule and thus incur PENALTIES. Any rule violations committed by the affected ALLIANCE shall be excused, and no PENALTIES will be assigned.

At both the regionals my team went to, the refs always assigned penalties to teams that were pushed into an opposing alliance's zone, even though the robot left immediately after the opposing robot allowed them to.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

I noticed that too.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

<G32> and <G33> both state that <G61> does not apply to them.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

I don't know what was said by the losing alliance to the head ref and therefore cannot comment on if things were said that should not have been. Emotions had to be running high over the course of thirty minutes for all teams involved. The other point to make is that 1730 had no part in the discussion with the head ref to my knowledge. So, even if you know things were said that should not have been, please don't drag the entire alliance through the proverbial mud. Team 1730 made some statements on this thread. I thought they were reasonable, but you can judge for yourself. Better yet, talk to them and get to know them.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

You would be very hard pressed to prove there was a technical error with the pole. As the rules state in section 2.2.5 The Towers,
Depending on the design of the minibot, it's possible it didn't hit with 4 Newtons of force. If, for example, such a minibot hits with 3N, it would probably trigger most of the time, but not all. Throughout the entire elimination matches that afternoon, that tower worked every time it was used - as far as I could tell, there was no history that would make that tower suspect.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

Their mini bot actually hit so hard that it broke.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

Lol I know the very well. and I agree with you we shouldn't jump to conclusion to what was said to the refs.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

As far as I know, over the course of the entire competition, only one team had difficulty triggering the tower (until the last match) when they were reaching the top of the tower. However, they had a design flaw that caused it to hit the bolts holding the bottom plate on occasion.
I do not know what caused the tower not to trigger (maybe a video will see it, though I doubt the webstream video will see it with enough resolution, but maybe I will be surprised), but as per team update 18, the refs are not to overrule the results.
You can see the discussion on here regarding team update 18 to see there has been worry about something like this happening (particularly on Einstein).
*Edit: Let me just state that it absolutely sucks that this happened in the eliminations and particularly in the third match of the finals.

As to why it broke, there are lots of possibilities. It could have hit a bolt (with no give), fall damage, damage over time, etc.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

The refs said bolts too but they held the mini bot up and it was impossible.

I dont know what happened either, and it does really suck. It's just the fact that it was the deciding match that I feel there had to have been something that could have been done. Especially when refs were manually scoring minibus at other matches.

It's over now. I'm just trying to get a sense of what happened and what other people saw happen.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

I didn't mean to target any one team (and I apologize, I wasn't referring to 1730, who I thought was professional given the circumstances), but when any team that is A.already a match ahead B.statistically more likely to win match 3 and C.Already qualifying for the championship, I feel arguing only appears unprofessional.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

Can you explain? Are you meaning other regionals? If so, which regionals? This regional?

I was not aware of a single manual minibot scoring for North Star.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

I believe the reference is to past regionals. As was stated in Team update 18:
Yes, weeks 1 and 2 the refs had the ability to manually score minibots if the tower didn't trigger. That simply isn't the case anymore.

Re: 2011 Minnesota North Star Regional
 

Regarding the "mini bot" situation there was a rule added saying that if the tower fail to trigger it was because your mini bot hit a bolt keeping the plastic circle from raising And if this happens you do not qualify for the points gained.(i know this because we also failed to get points once and the judges explain the rule to us)