Attending multiple regionals
 

Had a hard time finding info about this topic, so I apologize if this has "been covered."

Questions:
1. In how many regional competitions may a team actually compete?
2. If a team qualifies for the finals at one regional, do they still compete at the others they have registered for?

Call me crazy but I think it would be unfair if, say, four or five strong teams enter regional competitions near their "home" regional, and squeeze out less strong teams, even if it is allowed.
I understand the need for practice and working out the kinks, but it seems a bit elitist.

This has been sticking in my brain after seeing many shipping containers at the LA regional which were shipped directly from the San Diego regional.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

1. If a team has the money and student availability, they can participate in up to 6 regionals this year.

2. If they win a Championship qualification slot at any of their regionals, they may go to the Championships.

There is nothing fair or unfair about this. Teams work for sponsorships so they can get enough money to attend multiple events. Every team has that same opportunity to solicit additional sponsors. The fact that this may be easier for some teams than others is like anything else in life - nothing is guaranteed to be equal or easy.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

This was one of the longer debates on this subject:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=67103

It is a good place to read through a lot of opinions, and gain some historical perspective.

I believe I said it in that thread, the real issue is not making teams compete fewer times to "be fair", but figuring out how to get everyone a chance to compete at least 2 times. :)

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

One thing to remember especially as a rookie this year is that every elite team started exactly where you are right now. What you learn and do in your first few years will really shape your team!

Last year my old team was able to attend the North Carolina Regional and all I can say is that it is one of the best investments you can do! Meeting new teams, individuals, competing in another area, and refining your work was a great experience and we learned so much! I would highly encourage that if your team can do so in the future to do it!

I would also recommend that if you ever have the ability to ask those teams why they attend another regional. :)

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

This has actually been a very hot topic/discussion in other threads and seasons. If you do a search using your words, multiple regionals, you will come across some of those threads.

Jane

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

Perhaps I should have stated it this way originally...
I see it as the Boston Red Sox getting to play in the Division Series for the A.L. West, Central, and East. If they do that wouldn't it make it even MORE difficult for the Angels to make it to the World Series?
My question about qualification shoud read: if they qualify for the World Championship in St Louis at their first regional can they keep repeating their dominance at an additional 5 regionals?

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

Personally, from going to multiple regionals, I can say that we fared a LOT better at San Diego than at LA. I can also say that it has been the best experience so far. To be able to go and stay together with the team is just a great experience. It is a bonding experience for everyone. We also were in the same motel as team 599. Being able to meet new people and let loose is fun.

From my personal experience, I really think going to San Diego brought me and the other programmer together.

I would say it is not about the robot, but it is about the people. Think of the people before the robot.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

Yes they can. If a team should qualify at more than one regional, that opens a spot at the Championship for one of the teams on the wait list.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

461's problem is that our school only let us miss school for 1 event, so we got to go to the boilermaker over spring break, and championships if we get an invite, but that's it.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

Yes, and I think there are private competitions among the teams as to who garners the most medals when and how and where. There is nothing to stop teams from winning robot competitions in any given season, if they can pay the registration fees and travel.

Jane

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

If we prevented powerhouse teams from attending multiple regionals, we would also prevent all the other teams from doing it. That is undesirable, even if one thinks it is okay to put limits on the top teams (I don't).

Example: us. This is going to be the first year that Team 967 goes to a second regional, and we are really excited about it. We have been pushing ourselves pretty hard to improve as a team, and going to a second regional is an important piece of that. We felt that we had a shot at winning going into Kansas City, and although we had a great run, we were defeated in the semis. That would be the end of it if we could only go to one regional: we had a good robot, it had a weakness, and we didn't quite get there. But it's not the end, and so we were able to ask ourselves what we need to do to improve. We have been hard at work to shore up our robot's weaknesses (minibot speed + deployment reliability), and now we think we will be stronger than ever at 10000 Lakes. I consider this phase of the season to be a great motivator and a great learning experience - this is when we can take our existing designs and improve them, although there are significant hurdles to doing that. Limited time, no access to the robot, withholding allowance limits, extremely limited time to install and test upgrades in the pits, etc. But it is doable, and if our new minibot deployment is successful, we are going to feel like a million bucks. That experience, hopefully, will be motivational and inspirational to the team, which is more important than taking home hardware.

Attending multiple regional competitions is a crucial part of the path to becoming a really strong team, I think. And we have a lot of work to do if we want to achieve that goal... our experiences at the Championship (via waitlist) have made that pretty clear.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

This is interesting, as my team attends two regionals each year. Our 'home' regional, Autodesk Oregon, and then a Seattle Regional.

The Seattle Cascade Regional was first, and we ended up winning. And this question about going to Oregon was raised. I personally almost didnt go on Thursday and Friday because I didnt want to miss school, but ended up going anyway. We went into Oregon to have fun. We also switched up our drive team, giving new people experience and ended up Top 8. Then we decided that we are competeing to bring 2 other teams to St Louis. We picked an entirely different alliance than in Seattle, despite the fact that our partners were at Oregon as well. We ended up winning, and giving two other teams a chance at Nationals, one of those teams being a rookie team.

I dont think it is unfair to compete at two regionals at all. Our team fought for our win, it wasnt handed to us, and the Autodesk Oregon Regional was very very very intense.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

So... win at Regional #1 and have to cancel all plane fares, hotel reservations, etc for Regional #2? Or show up to Regional #2 and just sit in the stands? Or even throw Regional #1 so that I can play (and get more practice) at Regional #2? Now those seem equally unfair...

(equally unfair - oxymoronic?)

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

It might be theoretically possible to squeeze in attendance at the Israel Regional between weeks 2 and 3, making a total of seven regional competitions. You'd probably not arrive at the week 3 event until rather late on Thursday, though. :p

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

And you may be building a robot in the pit!

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

I wonder how FedEx would like that...

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

I can understand your idea for powerhouse teams not attending more than their home event per year. However, there are quite a few positives by allowing powerhouse teams like 16, 71, 111, 1114 (not including Michigan teams due to their statewide tournaments) to attend more than their home event. There is a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge from powerhouse teams. I know from my experience on WildStang, we share what we can while at events. A few examples were at Midwest regional, we helped 896 rebuild a robot from the ground up and had a student be their coach and lead to them to producing a functioning robot. Powerhouse teams bring a lot of leadership and produce some unique strategies that teams in the future can utilize. I know that it may be unfair to have to go against a team of powerhouses, but there is always a silver lining to every cloud :)

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

I do agree with you that powerhouse teams dominate, however I disagree with forcing powerhouses to compete at only their home.

If you forced powerhouses to compete at only one regional, then all the other teams would have to only compete at one regional as well, to make it not look like discrimination. If that happened, then there would be less collaboration that is seen.

My idea is to choose the alliance captain from the second place team and send them to championships. For ex. team X wins San Diego. Two weeks later, they win LA. Team Y was the captain of the other finalist alliance. Give team X's alliance partners and team Y an invitation to champs. Team X already has its invitation from San Diego. In the rare case that 2 or more of team X's alliance have already won as well, team Y's first and second pick would also be given an invitation.

This would allow for more teams to experience the aura of championship, and allow for greater mingling.

Just my thoughts.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

Denying or limiting a team from attending multiple regionals, whether it's a powerhouse team, or not, is egregious. These teams enhance the regional, rather than detract from it. What they bring to the table, is usually of tremendous value, from both a design and organizational, point of view. If your team doesn't have the resources, that these teams possess, then learn from them, as to how they do it, and hopefully, with some intense forethought, you can be more clever , in your designs, then they are.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

This is not particularly rare, at least here in Canada. 1114 and 2056 have been winning together in multiple regionals since 2007.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

My bad. :o

Edit: But what do you think of my idea?

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

There's no need to change the existing system. When a team that already has a seat at CMP wins another seat, their seat is automatically opened up to the first available team on the wait list.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

I want to commend team 2471 for picking two other teams who had not punched their tickets. That has to be one of the top acts of gracious professionalism I have heard of.

There is nothing stopping any team from attending more than one regional. As with anything in life it takes hard work to make it happen. If that is a lesson that FIRST teaches, we should embrace it.

The motto should be how do we get to be like those teams? Not, that is unfair and we should bring them down.

All that said the disparity between the top and bottom seems to be growing. It would not surprise me if FIRST tries to address this in the future.

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

Although power house teams are scarry to face they should be alowed to go to the rest of their regionals for many reasons.
1. they already paid for it and their entitled to go.
2. they contribute help to manny rookie teams.
3. It makes the compititions more chalenging

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

What about an all rookie only regional?

Re: Attending multiple regionals
 

2008 - Kettering Rookie Regional.

It was the pilot for the Michigan District Structure.

-Clinton-

CD Links about it:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=60002
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=65641
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=65567