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Whatever happened to "tube starvation" strategies?
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As the matches get more important, we will see more and more starvation. |
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No one has mentioned it yet, but there was a practice match where the entire rack was filled with logos on the red side, and two red minibots made it up the pole. |
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Is the webcast working? I get to the page of Coderedrobotics but no video or audio? Address?
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By the way, Q38 was 134-102. 236 total points! |
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Can anyone post the link to the standings? I am on my dads blackberry and it won't let me get to it through the FIRST websites.
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Here are the standings http://www2.usfirst.org/2011comp/eve.../rankings.html
Also, is it lunch break or is the webcast down? |
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Very impressive competition at Michigan. Wow.
How does that group of teams compare to the field we'll see in St. Louis? Are we going to see an average winning alliance score approaching 100 there? |
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Kudos to all the Michigan teams, what an awesome day of competition. I had the webcast up against a couple other regionals and there was no comparison. It was like watching Einstein compared to a Week 1 regional. Wow!
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I love watching matches were a group of teams can score 100 points and lose... It's so much fun to watch this... Did I mention the 6 tube auton???!!!
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These matches are a blast to watch. When you see a team score over 100 and lose in multiple qualification matches, you know there are some high quality teams there. Glad I went in to support my team rather than head into work. Cant wait to watch the elimination matches. There should be at least one match then with all 6 ubertubes and all 4 minibots. Good luck to all the teams that make it to eliminations. Curious to see how everything will work out with the semi and finals being recorded. Definitely going to DVR that next weekend.
Does anyone else think we might see an entire side of the field covered with logos? I think the most was 5 of the 6 logos made during one match which was ridiculous. |
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It seemed like the scores were running really high at the MSC. This made wonder what the average alliance score was. So I quickly averaged the red alliance and blue alliance scores from the match results. They currently are 75.8 and 79.9, respectively!!! This doesn't even include the elimination results. I wonder how that compares to other regionals running this same weekend?
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Naturally, OPR's reflect the "filtered" nature of the MSC: Code:
0 OPR 217 63.1971 |
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Gotta love 201's acceptance speech :)
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It was one word - "yes."
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The major upset of Michigan State Championships:
#FRCGL TY E MC 9 RF 91 BF 122 RE 469 201 217 BL 3098 74 548 RB 15 BB 50 RP 0 BP 0 The #1 Alliance gets knocked out by the #8 Alliance |
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Thanks to 74 and the 3098, we couldn't have done it without you! |
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Anyone mind telling me who won the Autodesk Animation peer vote? We had to leave early.
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This is probably the first time, I've been inspired just by looking at numbers, truly "strength in numbers."
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(For those who didn't know, very few teams are eligible for the nationals from Michigan based on their points: I believe it's something like 12). Now they're desperately scrambling to put together the funding. Go BULLDOGS! For a hint of how hard it is to get in from Michigan, 3539 won a district (Waterford), were the finalists at Troy, won 2 Rookie allstar awards.... and was the LAST robot to make it to nationals in Michigan based on points. |
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What a wonderful event. The actions was absolutely unbelieveable. This Link really says it all:
http://www2.usfirst.org/2011comp/eve.../rankings.html With an average RS of 60.3 points!!!!!!! That means the average "losing" score was over 60 points before penalties. I was in the TV truck a good deal of the weekend, and the footage should be amazing. Thank you to all 64 teams for putting on a great show. It was truly a sight to behold. Eliminations were as to be expected... Complete wild cards. 2 weeks ago I looked at the stats and saw that there would likely be 7 alliances capable of 100+ points. Then a couple more teams stepped up, and there were 8 alliances that really could have taken it yesterday. There were only 2 pairings that only went to 2. The QF were so exciting. 3/4 going to 3 matches. Semis were amazing as well. Then the finals really could have gone either way. |
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Are videos posted anywhere of all the matches? Also thanks to 74 and again to 3098. Congrates to 33, 67, and 70 (just realized all 2 digit teams).
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The HOT team lived up to their long standing reputation of being the best team in the world. Adam, Jim, it was great finally playing with you guys, after 12 years of playing against each other. You have a great team, great strategy, and a great robot. You are an inspiration to us. More Martians were a steal. I could not believe that your team was still available at the 15th pick. Great job with the defense, tube delivery and minibot. You were the key to our victory. Excellent grace under pressure doing a Crio swap in 5 minutes in the Semifinals. IKE is right, the finals could have gone either way. ONE POINT determined the winner. ONE POINT in 3 matches with totals over 200! Split second finishes on the minibots made the difference. Amazing. Great Job by RUSH, Adambots, and Bedford Express! Your alliance was great and it was an honor to play against you. I hope at least one of you is in our division in St Louis. I can't wait to see the ABC program next weekend. |
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If a backup is needed, at least we're the first to be used. Congrats to the winners! |
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Wow what a great event... One big official mistake was elimination match 2-1 EngiNERDs clearly won this match but it looks like the refs or the score keepers got it wrong in the mini bot race. 245 did deploy a mini bot, but it finished 2nd!!! 1718 score there's first. The 30 points went Team Rush with 20 going to the EngiNERDs alliance. Finial score 101 - 98 The EngiNERDs alliance went on to win the next match. It should have been over. Competition VS GP you telling me after watching 3 days worth of mini bot racing that anyone would get this wrong? 1718 clearly had a faster mini bot they demonstrated it throughout the event. So sorry for the EngiNERDs alliance 1718 and 326 you guys got robbed. I did not check but I am sure this changed who is qualifying for nationals.
VID: http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinM...33/LTnOYwfay34 Maybe I did not see this correctly it would be nice if we could get some GP out of teams 27 245 1023 lets hear from you guys. |
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I want to explain the TRUE reason that the NC Gears didn't repeat as MSC Champions. It wasn't our robot, our drivers, our strategy, our opponents, or our "other" alliance partner - nothing as rational as that. It was the NC Gears/Martians Curse! Since 2009, the NC Gears have been winners or finalists at every event we attended with a few "curious" exceptions:
- 2009 TC Disrict: No Martians - Finalist - 2009 Lansing District: With 494 Martians - Semifinalist - 2009 WM District: No Martians - Winner - 2009 MSC: No Martians - Finalist - 2009 Newton: No Martians - Finalist - 2010 TC Distric: No Martians - Winner - 2010 WM District: No Martians - Finalist - 2010 MSC: No Martians - Winner - 2010 Archimedes: With 70 More Martians - Quarterfinalist - 2011 TC District: No Martians - Winner - 2011 WM District: No Martians - Winner - 2011 MSC: With 494 Martians - Quarterfinalist Not only that, but 2 of the 3 qualification matches we lost at 2011 MSC were with or against Martians. Yikes! Oh, well. The NC Gears, Martians, and More Martians all qualified for the Championship. I just hope that we wind up in different divisions! As you may know, my younger brother Jay is a mentor for the Goodrich Martians (494) & More Martians (70). As kids, we always played well together. As adults, apparently we don't. Maybe our Mother needs to have a few words with us. But seriously, MSC was a great event. In the five matches we played on Saturday, there was only one where the losers (us) scored less than 100 points! Congratulations to everyone who made it there. Thanks to 494 for selecting us and 3539 for joining our alliance. Congratulations to 33, 67, and 70 on a well deserved victory. Thanks to all who make this event possible! |
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FYI...accusation and confrontational posts like this and then calling out the teams for GP to post their opinions won't get you very far on CD... |
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Ya, 1st = 27 2nd = 1718 3rd = 245
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I think 27 tower was disabled that is why I edited my post. It would be GP for the teams to let CD folks and me who had to watch the hole thing on the web cast what went on.
Can't see but the lights show the tower is disabled |
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Even though 27's lights didnt trigger they did hit before 1718 and it was 245's pole that was disabled.
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Generally, I thought the MSC refs got nearly all of the close calls right. The endgame moves very quickly, making those calls very tough for the refs. |
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The call on the field stands there is no recourse, when a ref makes a call and stands by it there is nothing we can do after the fact. Evaluating why it happened and how we can avoid calls like that in the future may be of some value but calling out well respected teams sure isn't the way to do it. |
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Congrats though on 3 very successful seasons! |
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Only in Michigan can the 8th seed alliance put up a score of 143 points...just wow.
Watching youtube match videos all day:D |
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WOW you do not sound bias at all. Did not know that the simply two letters would cause so many folks to get all bound up inside "slandering other people/teams." Really? OK PLEASE READ THE POST BEFORE RESPONDING SIMPLY COPYING IT INTO YOUR POST IS NOT THE SAME.
WHAT r the facts: 3 mini bots went up two were scored??? ::rtm:: |
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I don't really understand how hearing opinions from the teams on the winning alliance has anything to do with GP. |
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WOW you do not sound bias at all.
You're right, I'm not. I have reasons for wanting both teams to win. Did not know that the simply two letters would cause so many folks to get all bound up inside "slandering other people/teams." You are the one who called out 27/245/1023, not me. You are the one who, instead of asking for clarification. No, wait, you asked for GP... whatever that is. " it would be nice if we could get some GP out of teams 27 245 1023 lets hear from you guys." Really? OK PLEASE READ THE POST BEFORE RESPONDING SIMPLY COPYING IT INTO YOUR POST IS NOT THE SAME. Better? Did I read enough of your post this time? Remember, you are the one who called out teams. Had you asked for clarification for why things turned out as they had I doubt anyone would have had a problem explaining it. Instead you claimed 2337 should have won and, as I read it, that the alliance that won was not displaying GP. I'm not even sure how you are defining GP or why it is relevant to a call a ref made but the point is YOU called out teams. I responded because I have had experience with several of the teams you called out. |
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Talking to the refs after the match, they said this:
27's minibot won the race, despite the tower lights not activating. 1718's minibot came in second. 245's tower was disabled due to an early deployment. There is your clarification. |
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Congrats to teams 27, 245, and 1023 for playing hard in the eliminations and coming within one point of upsetting a STACKED #2 seeded alliance, not to mention beating a strong #8 alliance in the semis. For anyone from that blue alliance in the quarters, please let this go. Sometimes mistakes are made, but don't go pointing fingers, especially since, in this case, I don't think there was one. |
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A huge thanks from 3536 to all the teams we played against and with over the weekend. We believe that we really were part of something cool with the tube hang and the minibot race this year so far.
As the highest rookie seed we really enjoyed how the teams pulled with us in the end. We were able to keep our HIGHLY defensive robot up there in a mix of excellent tube hangers. While the Mini bot we had was consistent, it was no match to the blistering bots put up by Foley Freeze, TORC, Enginerds and by far not least MARTIAN were really awsome. I know there were many others that I didn't get to watch that I failed to mention. We hope to mimic some of the designs ideas we saw and have it on EPIC for St. Louis to help our role in the alliances next time. We knew the defensive role in itself would be a tough sell at the end of the day. Even with keeping the hangers points down or off the board as we showed we could. Sorry to those that got knocked in the 1 vs 8 story. That was a heartbreaker. But it also is what makes a compelling story too. Yep MSC was wild for our first experiance there, crazy for sure. But alot of cool teams and the rookie tube hanging done by 3539 was impressive. Nice Job to EVERYONE we met very cool, thanks! |
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As the driver of Team 1718, that in the heat of the moment I thought that we beat 27 in the mini bot race and when they gave it the first place, like any driver would have been, I was very mad. After looking at it on video i realized that it was actually a very close race and that it was too close for to call. The ref already has one of the hardest jobs there is and I beleive that he made the right call. I realize that if I had been on 27's team, i would have been mad if 1718 got the first place points and cost us to lose the match so i beleive that even though it was a tough call, the ref made the right decision. The quarterfinal ended up going to a third match anyways although we had some drivetrain issues and I give all the credit in the world to 27, 245 and 1023. They were a very strong alliance, as was every alliance there, but to take the strong number 2 alliance to three matches in the finals was a feat in itself. The finals were three of the most exciting matches I have ever seen. Great job you guys.
Also congrats to 33, 67 and 70 on winning the championship. You guys all have awesome robots this year and I cant wait to see you guys down in St. Louis. And thank you to Team 2337 for choosing us as your alliance partners and team 326 for joining our alliance. Both of you guys had two awesome robots this year and it was an honor to play with you guys. |
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Congrats to TEAM 2054 "TECH VIKES" you did awesome, too!!!:)
You were reliable and a consistent robot in every concept of the tournament!!! We are so excited about going to Nationals at St. Louis. Good luck to all teams going and see you there!!! |
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I am concerned about 27 receiving the points despite the lights not triggering. Per TU#18, "So moving forward, we will be relying on the automated scoring of the MINIBOT RACE." Is this not to be taken as a rule, and instead more of a guideline? At the Sacramento Regional, our (1868's actually) MINIBOT didn't trigger the tower in our last final match, but it was clearly first place in the MINIBOT RACE. We were not awarded the points, but it didn't matter since we won without that minibot. Earlier in the day, our actual MINIBOT (a slow one) hit one of the bolts as it attempted to trigger the tower, didn't trigger it, and we did not receive the points again. So, is this a matter of inconsistency in the refereeing? Or was there something different about the situation with team 27? Because as I understand TU#18, if the tower doesn't show those lights, no points. Also, for anyone interested, I attached a screen grab of 245 deploying early. You can see that the yellow light is still on the tower base and their MINIBOT is just barely within the BASE projection. Awesome matches at Michigan, the World Championship is going to be intense! -Mike |
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There've been a couple of cases where lights just didn't work on a tower for some reason, but the scoring system picked up the points anyway. (Or, in the case I'm thinking of, it was known that the tower's lights weren't working and they hadn't fixed them, so they went by FMS times.)
It's triggering the tower, not turning on the light, that is important. |
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Overall, one of the best i've ever seen. Amazing.
I still felt a little angered by a couple things, but they weren’t too bad. I don't like it when people cheer because of other people's losses. I understand it when it is your victory, that’s fine. Example would be 469 last year, during the April Fool's joke. Tons of people were cheering wildly. Although not nearly as bad, when the 8th seed beat the 1st seed, I felt it a little bit. Its ok to get excited about an upset (no matter what you think about the robots, if an 8th seed beats a 1st seed it is by default a technical upset) but please please don't be happy because of someone else's loss. I had a few friends on 217 who were irked by it, but again. It was not too bad, just something I noticed. And It happened more than just during the upset, it happened a little bit during award ceremonies, but I won’t get into that too much. DON’T cheer because a team lost an award… That’s just plain wrong. Way worse than cheering because a team lost a match. Usually teams only get around one award per competition, and when I see (and hear from specific people who came up to me afterwards and complained) that certain people were cheering because a team won a certain award and not the one they wanted… wow… Congrats to the winning alliance, you guys truly deserved it. I loved watching your matches; it really shows how awesome LOGO MOTION can be. Also, I want to give a big congrats to teams 548 and 1023 on their chairman award wins. They are absolutely amazing and I really enjoyed walking through their booths and seeing their team's accomplishments throughout 2010-2011 Excited for Nationals :) |
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Then again, maybe it just sounded like everyone was cheering because our team is so huge. |
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Haha :), well I know it wasent your team. And when I say cheering, its more like.. People coming up to me and saying things like "YES 217 is out!! LOLOLOL im soososos happy!" and then you realize that they are just happy because a team lost. And not because of the upset, or because their team won.
I could tell 548 was going wild, congrats, it was a great match. |
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Congrats to 1023 on the award though! |
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In my 11 years in FIRST this was one of the toughest competitions I been a part of. It was almost like the last few years at IRI only without the talent show.
As field coach for the Martians, team 494, it was once again a great pleasure to play side by side with the NC Gears and be behind the glass with my big brother. It was also my pleasure to work with team 3539 Electro Eagles. You guys are a class act. Sorry to bring you into the Martian/Gears jinx (see above).;) As mentor for More Martians team 70, It was a great honor to be invited to join forces with two of the greats in FIRST Robotics: The Killer Bees and HOT. As I have said before, no other team has helped our team more that team 33, and no other mentor has helped me over the years more that Jim Zondag. Thanks again. |
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Sorry Andrew Schreiber Clearly GP was not a good word combo (I really have not earned the right to use such a heavily waited word) its an Adjective and a Noun I obviously used it incorrect. I still think your comments were not very "gp" (lower case). This is were you may consider switching to decaf.
Other than this single match (Elimination Qtr 2-1) I think the Ref's did a great job. Thanks for the clarification! |
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BX would like to thank team 67, RUSH and team 245, Adambots for digging down into the rank list to see our robot's performance instead of our results from some tough matches! We had a great time working with you. Kyle, you are a FIM legend and as a coach, I learned so much working with you and listening to you yesterday. Your team has shared many resources with my team. Being able to play in some very intense matches with you all was an honor! I would like to thank many teams for helping 1023 grow into a Chairman's team! Team 67-You all have inspired us and led us and helped us grow. Tom, your faith in us has pushed us higher than maybe I even thought we were capable. Team 27 - You have shared many resources with us! We used your toolkit to revamp our program last year and look where it took us. How sweet to be able to play with you in the championships and be awarded the Chairman's Award in the same year! Team 503 - We love the frogs! Thanks for being there to answer questions any time we had them and for helping us reach the next level! You are an inspiration and winning Chairman's with you was an honor! Team 201 - Your help with scouting and strategy last year has lead to a whole new scouting procedure for us! We had the best scouting we have ever had this year. Thanks for helping us see the importance of good scouting! We had some of our highest scoring matches with you this year! We hope you make it to worlds! Teams 33, 51, 217, 469, 1528 - Thank you for always being there with spare parts, assistance and support! We truly appreciate you and all you do for this program! Team 3773 - We are so proud of you for winning highest rookie seed in Livonia and for all you have accomplished since creating your team last December! Looking forward to seeing you grow next year! Dave V. - You are the BEST MC in the WORLD! Thank you for all you do! Actually being one of the teams that was introduced while you were doing your trademark handstand was SUCH an honor! Juan and Tom - You two are awesome MC's as well! Thank you both! Team 2137 - TORC! We have really enjoyed getting to know your team this year, winning Livonia with you, and building friendships. Thank you for letting us run our mini-bot up in our last match together! We know you took a risk with that and we will never forget it! Hope we are in the same division so we can play together again! Thanks to all of the volunteers who make this program work. Thanks to Gail and Pam for all of your work to make this state so strong! Thanks to EMU (my alma mater) for hosting this event! The cool thing about Michigan FIRST is that everyone shares, everyone helps, everyone cares AND when you go to St. Louis you have so many friends. We are really looking forward to seeing you all there and seeing who will be in our division! GOOD LUCK to ALL Michigan teams! See you in St. Louis!! |
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Congratulations to Ken Platteshorre for winning the Woodie Flowers award. Ken is a quiet guy who works tirelessly for the West Michigan robotics community. He is a role model for other mentors as well as the students on his team.
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Way to go Ken-the Refresh Family is very proud of you! |
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There were so many 35xx teams at state, so your confusion is understandable. Thanks for picking us both to join you. We were so close to moving on! |
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Congrats to all who qualified & attended MSC, you (we) all have a lot to be proud of. One of our high points was being a part of the 6-tube Autonomous!
To those who made it into the eliminations, absolutely outstanding work! Regardless of the outcome, don't sweat the ref. calls, etc. You were the best of the best in MI! Those of you who are going to the CMP will do quite well. I know it's been said before, and debated, but as those who have been there can attest, and support by the numbers, the MSC is by far the toughest Official FIRST event in the world- look out St. Louis! Team #1243 would also like to extend special thanks & congratulations to Team #326 for teaming up with us in the mini-bot race & adding some extra-firepower to pull-off a couple of surprises, your m-bot was awesome! Also, on your winning the Gracious Professionalism Award! After the experience our team had with you guys, and the positive impact it had on our team (a couple students in particular) we were all so happy you guys had won. Great Work for such a small team!! :) Re: #1 being beat by#8 and booing/cheering. To anyone who's beein in FIRST for a while in MI, there are a few teams who always seem to be in the elims, because they are truly awesome teams. When some of them pair together, it paints an almost perfect picture of the "high-powered" alliance just by name. Having been an under-dog several times before, pulling off an upset creates a huge release of energy and emotions in everyone at the event as it is simply unexpected. Not that anyone is necessarily "pleased" that a good team lost, afterall everyone loses sooner or later. I wonder, if it would have gone the other way -as some might have expected- would the subject have even came up because the release of energy and cheering might not have been as loud? |
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I was your scorekeeper at MSC this past weekend. I should be able to clear up some confusion about the tower lights vs minibot order.
We have to change the order of the minibot race when host robots hit the tower and trigger the scoring inadvertently. This happened a couple times in the eliminations. We can adjust the scoring correctly but we can't change the tower lights to show the correct finish order. So it can be confusing if you are just watching a video and looking at the lights. We had refs, the FTA, FTAA and myself watching all of the "drag races" to ensure we got the order correct. There are also refs assigned to each tower to determine early deployment and tower disables. We had many matches where four minibots scored in 4 seconds so this was very challenging! |
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Insanely efficient tube scoring... Incredible human players... Tenacious defense... Photo-finish minibot races... Record-setting combined scores... ...and Mr. David Verbrugge... wow. :) |
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What ABC program are you referring to? |
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All ABC affiliates in Michigan on Saturday, April 16 at 1 p.m. WJRT in Flint will air it on Sunday. (I have my TiVo set for it, so if you have TiVo it should already be in the database.) |
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ABC videotaped the event. They are making a 1 hour video which will show the semi finals and finals. It was really cool. They put a high def. camera on all of the captain robots. I know they got video of the Martians shanging their cRIO. I also believe that Paul Copioli was commentating. It'll definatly be worth watching.
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They also put camera's on the minibot towers so there should be some great footage on that. Especially the matches where the tower was shaken a bit from contact.
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WOW…what an insane event!
I can honestly say that I have never seen a more deserving collection of teams at a competition. There were teams that should and would have made elimination rounds at any other tournament in the country, that weren’t in these eliminations. Unfortunately for some teams, there were some amazingly stacked qualification alliances…this lead to some awesome displays of offensive power and some unique defensive strategies for how to counter act it. It was a joy to watch all of the qualification matches that I could. To all our friends, it was great to be able to see and play with everyone again. One thing I love about this event is that there is almost never a time where you can’t find someone interesting to talk to about robots. As everyone has already mentioned, the elimination were incredible. The strength of that #8 alliance was unreal. I couldn’t decide which team I wanted to win in that last SF match. Congratulations to 27, 245, and 1023…you guys were awesome. 3 matches…1pt victory, crazy tube scoring, awesome human players, minibot “drag races”….just crazy! To RUSH, I hope there will come a time soon where we can work together instead of competing against each other. You guys are awesome, and we would love an opportunity to play with you. Killer Bees and HOT…finally….what (?) 12 years in the making. I mentioned to the other mentors before the season started this was the year we finally play with 33. We were denied at Kettering, but this is even better. Jim, it was awesome to be on the same side of the glass with you! I think we worked great together. It was great to know our scouting teams worked well together, also. More Martians, you guys are always great to work with. Last year at Kettering and again this year…you guys do whatever we need you to do. Your tube running in the quarters and semis was awesome and your defense in the last match was outstanding. Plus the versatility you gave us on the minibots was great. I have never seen a cRIO fixed that quickly. I am really glad Jim kept believing in you guys, I was really nervous that something was going to happen. You guys earned it! Congrats to all the Chairman’s teams and all the other teams that qualified for St. Louis. Let’s keep the streak of Michigan teams in the Championship match going! |
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I'll continue to congratulate everyone who made the eliminations rounds, considering the fact that EVERYONE deserved to be there (evidenced by #8 upsetting #1, #7 giving #2 a ROUGH time, and #4 coming close to the upset victory in the finals); however, special congrats go to Teams 67, 33, and 70 for being champions; 503, 1023, and 548 for winning the State Championship Chairman's Award; and all of the other award winners for representing the best of the FIRST in Michigan powerhouse.
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I checked our local listings (Grand Rapids/Holland, MI) and WOTV is carrying it, but WZZM (Channel 13) is not. Saturday, April 16 at 1:00 p.m.
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Team 74 would like to thank teams 3098 and 548 for joining us in the quarter and semi final matches. We couldn't have made it as far as we did without your help.
To teams 469, 201, and 217, it was great playing against you guys. |
Re: Michigan State Championship
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All eight final alliances were impressive and the outcome of it was a true "cliff hanger". You wouldn't think it would be with the "Bee's", "HOT" and "More Martians" together, (that alliance would put fear into any FRC alliance) but there were many awesome teams and powerhouse alliances. Many thanks to team 2137 "TORC" for choosing the TECH Vikes and to 910 "Foley Freeze" for your valiant efforts. We enjoyed working with both of you and hope to do so again. |
Re: Michigan State Championship
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Congrats to all the elimination teams, Wow! A special thanks to 33 and 1023 for picking 2137 at the Kettering and Livonia districts, and our first and second Blue Banners. It has been a story book year. I also look forward to the Nationals, and some Michigan alliances. :) |
Re: Michigan State Championship
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