Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

604 was clearly a better choice for the #2 alliance.

No alliance was going to beat 254 by playing a strictly offensive strategy, and 691 was nowhere near as capable of playing defense as 604.

The highly defensive strategy that 1323 had their alliance play was their best shot at winning, and it worked quite well for them. If their alliance had been more reliable in automode and deploying minibots, they mgiht have won it.

Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

i think the lack of preparation for alliance selection is shocking. i was on the field picking alliances for both NJ and DC regionals for 1089, and with my scouting list, i was able to pick two alliances that upset much higher teams (NJ we were ranked 6 and made it to the finals, DC we were 7th and upset the 2 seed). at both regionals i had people looking at my list and hastily writing down whoever was at the top of my list. now these werent top-tier teams, or even teams who knew they had a good shot at being picked. when i picked my first alliance partner at both NJ And DC, both of them either had a list written, or were very knowledgeable about who they wanted to pick next and why. our team always has about 25 teams on our list, and most of the time i walk off the field with about half scratched off as being picked. at dc especially, i was very surprised with some of the selections that were made. robots that probably should not have been competing that late were being picked, and when i looked up at the board, there were plenty of teams left that i had on my list. if you have a small team, i get that you may not have the manpower to scout properly. you should at least be well-informed about which teams are ranked where, and why.

Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

It did seem that teams were particularly unprepared at SVR this year. The 5th and 7th highest teams on our pick list were able to be chosen by the #5 alliance. We were able to get our #1 most desirable third partner with the 24th pick of the draft.

Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

THIS is one more reason why teams should network. Why mentors and students should work together across teams. This year, while helping 3450, I needed help from people who had more resources from me. I went to 2337 and 68 and told them that I needed help. 68 did a bit of machining for 3450. 2337 did a lot of machining for 3450 as well as donating 2 mentors for nearly 2 weeks after Kettering helping 3450 to fix problems. They even gave 3450 a minibot.

Furthermore 703 offered to do any machining we needed that they could do, we just needed to ask.

3450 had access to many more resources because of our network of friends.

Yes, teams picking teams based solely on the fact that they are "friends" sucks. But teams picking teams based on the fact that they are nearly as good as another team and have worked well with them in the past is completely understandable to me.

Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

My team worked extremely hard this build season and we did compete to the best of our ability, but we also did it while having fun. that's all that matters to us. In all honesty it is insulting to hear you say this. both 2035 and 675 worked incredibly hard this build season, and you should not judge how a team does because their robot has a few glitches.

We did chose to play competitivley, however there is not much one can do when going against 254 and 1538.

Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

I was more referring to the idea in general as I've seen/heard it happen several times. I have no idea what your robot or 2035 even looks like. I was only going by what you said in your originial post. I am in no way judging your robot, only questioning the idea of just picking your friends in alliance selections.

Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

I did want to throw a little defense for 2141 being unprepared. Their driver approached me while our team was on the field and let me know that they wanted to pick 1868. I told him that I'd go tell our scout team that and send someone to let his scouts know where we stood as soon as we could. He responded with, "Oh ... I am our scout team ... and driver ... and lead designer."

When we found out that 1323 was going to pick us, I let him know right away and he gave me a pretty lost look. I felt really bad for the kid. With the size of his team, he just didn't have any scouting support. I pointed him in the direction of 971 and wished him the best of luck, but we can see that it did not work out terribly well when it came to actually picking.

The alliance called our time out and gathered all the drive teams and lead scouts together right before the finals to get a little breather. The looks on their faces was pretty good when I said, "We can't throw a single tube if we want to win." After some discussion it -almost- worked out for us. 1868 getting the minibot up the pole first in both finals matches was a pretty rewarding moment for the girls with all the work they put on completely redesigning the deployment.

Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

At Virginia, due to captian picking in the first round of picks, team 539 became the 8th alliance captain. Being surprised by this fact, as were us due to thier robot (let's just say it wasn't the best at the regional), they went up to pick without any real information. They ended up picking us, 1418, we then instructed them to pick 1086 whom were ranked low, however when working, which at the time, our connections with their team informed us they were, were one of the best robots there. Afterwards, we found that they picked us largley because we were one of the only teams they knew about due to us being next to their pit and helping them with their bumpers, but when asked why they picked us they were unsure.
While picking us wasn't a bad choice (we we were ranked 18th or 19th, had auton, minibot and could put at least one logo up, usually to go on to score 1 or two extra tubes), it shows that if you are above 16th ranked, you should be ready to pick a team.
Ultimatley, the Blue Cheese didn't quite work and had to sub out (for 1793 who was also unprepared even though they were the next highest rank but was able to field thier robot in the end), and 539's robot also didn't work, leaving us to be chumped by defense, only allowing us to put up 2 tubes and deploy a minibot.
Please be prepared for picking and subbing (especially when you are next in line for back-up bots)

Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

The problem is, not every team is on ChiefDelphi, or connected to many well-organized teams (if any at all). Sometimes it happens, and unless every rookie kit comes with a sheet of paper telling you that "you have to scout and here's how you do it", it will always happen.

If all of you are just so hurt over how dreadfully awful those bad teams pick their crappy alliances (that was sarcasm), why don't you make an effort to inform every team about the importance of scouting, and the ways they should/shouldn't go about doing so? Not just teams on CD, but teams who aren't. While you're at it, let them know how great of a resource this forum is...

Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

An example of what David is talking about is the 2011 Dallas Regional thread. Look at that thread in comparison to some of the other regional threads and the Michigan State Championship thread. You'll see a major difference in participation in the threads. To me, it shows that the rookie teams are not active on CD. The ones that do find their way to CD and learn to delve into its resources, will learn to celebrate their competitions and their achievements as a community. The ones that don't have a community of support, will develop more slowly in all areas. In some robotics communities and areas, it is hard for the teams to understand that networking together and creating workshops and training opportunities, benefit them as individual teams and as a community. They are slow to grasp the potential impact of working together. Not every area has this problem but some areas definitely contend with this attitude.

Jane

Re: Is alliance selection usually this bad?
 

The BadgerBots (1306) hands out a packet of information on the importance of scouting and how alliance selection works. I don't know if there is any causation, but this year at Wisconsin I don't believe there were any alliance captains that didn't know how it worked or seemed confused.

I think one of the bigger issues with teams not scouting is that they simply lack the manpower (enough scouts at the event and enough time to plan a system out before hand). I know we have offered to and have scouting with other teams at events and it seems to be benifical for both groups, especially a smaller team who now has access to a great scouting database.