Bills Blog - Champs info
 

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011...st-on-cmp.html

All the fields are not in the same location

Full Text....
The latest on CMP


Good Afternoon Teams,

The Championship Planning Committee met last night. Its mindboggling how many details there are to running an event like the Championship every year. Now that we’re moving to a new location, after seven years in Atlanta, GA, the committee needs to examine every aspect of the event, ask ‘why do we do this this way?’ and determine ‘what is the best way to do this in St. Louis?’ Not everything is 100% firm yet, but here is the latest information I have on the 2011 FIRST Championship.

Wednesday
5-9:30PM – 5 representatives from each FRC team will be allowed into the pits to:

• Uncrate their robot – robot inspectors will be on hand to check your lock-up form if your last regional was a bag & tag event
• Work on their robot – the NASA machine shops will be open
• Get their robot inspected
• Get their encryption key

Thursday
Teams may calibrate their robot sensors on the competition fields 8:00am-8:45am
Practice matches run 9:00am – noon
Qualification matches run 1:00-7:00pm YES, MATCHES RUN UNTIL 7PM
Pits will stay open until 8PM

Friday
Opening Ceremonies start at 8:30am. There will be NO ROBOT PARADE.
Qualification matches 9:30am-5:00pm YES, MATCHES ARE SCHEDULED TO END AT 5PM
The FIRST Dean’s List presentation will be held at noon in the Ballroom
Pits and the NASA machine shops will stay open until 7pm

Saturday
Closing Ceremonies, including the final FRC matches and award presentations are scheduled 4:00pm-6:00

I will be hosting half hour FRC Live sessions at 10:30 & 3:30 on Thursday and at 10:30 on Friday. I’m not ready to announce the topics, but I do want to thank everyone who sent in suggestions.

The floor plan will be VERY DIFFERENT in St. Louis. New this year, two qualification fields will be located in the Dome and two qualification fields will be located in the pits. To ensure all teams get to compete both in the high profile Dome and on the easy access, intimate fields in the pits, divisions will swap fields at noon on Friday. Specifically: if your team starts qualification rounds on Dome field #1 on Thursday, your team will move to Pit field #1 on Friday while the teams who started qualification rounds on Pit field #1 on Thursday, move to Dome field #1 on Friday

Watch this space, and your team’s main and alternate contact’s email inbox for additional updates. I understand from the committee that there will be more details available on April 20th.

22 Days until Championship
See you then!

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Not all fields are in the dome, some are in the pits.... Wow, the scouts will not be happy about this.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Switching fields?
Man I thought we left that crap back at Disneyworld. I don't know anyone who missed that nonsense.
If the Jones Dome wasn't big enough to hold four fields then why in the world did FIRST grant them the contract for three years?
This is looking worse and worse every time I turn around to look again.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

What would cause them to do this? Isn't the football field the same size as ATL? It was perfect in ATL, so why change it for STL?

Seems like a step backwards.

So, now there will be 4 fields in the pits and 3 fields in the dome?

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Oh wow. To say STL will be different is an understatement.

Qual matches until 7PM on Thursday is good, Hopefully that means more matches. (More then 10?)

No mention of how Saturday afternoon is going to go per each division. It just mentions final rounds starting at 4:30, we'll have to stay tuned to see if anything there changes. Possibly no Qualifiication matches on Saturday?

I'm not sure how i'm going to like the "pit" fields versus "Dome" fields. It will be different. The goal here is to have a more "intimate" field set-up in the pits. I wonder why this change was made though, we ran 4 fields in Atlanta for 7 years and sure it wasn't as intimate but it was awesome seeing all 4 fields going at once. Granted queuing may have been a little hectic at times but when isn't it? And if we are swapping fields at Noon on Friday does that mean if you start in the pits on Thursday, you get to go to the Dome on Friday at noon and then what happens on Saturday?


Stay tuned for more infro from Bill. This thread is going to be interesting to watch. Mike and I just got a ton of things to talk about on our Show tomorrow night. (http://frctop25.com/MikeandJustinITM.html)

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

If the pits werent crowded enough as they were!?!

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Kind of interesting, but it will be a pain to scout. At least you only have to scout your devision. But still, moving all of the equipment and all will not be too fun.

On the competition side of things, one day you will have an easy walk, and the next day a bit farther.

I was not around for Championships when it was in Disney, but this really does sound like a pain.

Other than that, everything sounds good. I am really glad we get to work for a while on Wednesday. I am sure many teams including us will need this time.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

So the divisions are switching fields but are the volunteer staff sticking to their divisions or sticking to their fields cause what I'm concerned with are consistent ref calls in each division.

eek, what a logistics nightmare.....:confused:

omg, what's the team social going to be like?

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

If it's anything like the Epcot setup was, "intimate" will mean "impossible to find seating".

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

At Disney people were interested to find spots in those tent area because they were shaded instead of watching matches on whatever field they were assigned to back in 2002.
This isn't quite as extreme but it'll be interesting to watch teams jostle for position for when they switch fields.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen....

Besides the fact that there's going to be a huge exodus from the pits to the dome and visa versa Friday at noon, what about teams using line followers or cameras? Instead of calibrating for 1 field, they now have to calibrate for two fields in the alloted 45 minutes. Instead of ~86 teams looking for a spot on one field, there are 160+ teams looking for a spot on both fields. Furthermore, how is FIRST planning on transferring tournament data from "Dome Field #1" to "Pit Field #1"? What if a team has issues connecting to one field but not the other? Will teams be allowed to practice on both fields prior to the start of qualifications?

I too am curious how Saturday afternoon will work. Do teams in two divisions get to use their own pit area, while the teams in the other two have to move their pit to the Dome? What happens when the pit divisions move on to Einstein? Do those 6 teams have to hurry up, pack up their pit and make a mad dash to the dome?

--Jon

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

::headdesk::

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Agreed.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

The only consolation I see in this is personal: Having only attended CMP once, last year, I'm not used to the Atlanta setup; however, I have to wonder about this. Is the planned setup purely to allow for both an intimate environment in the pits, as well as the awesome, professional-sports-event atmosphere in the dome, or are there some other logistical issues forcing this to be the case?

I assume it's the former, because I can't begin to imagine what sort of issues would force FIRST to set up the championship event in this way, but it seems to me that the powers that be would have had enough foresight to realize how greatly inconvenienced teams would be by this plan. In any case, it should be...interesting...at best to see how this all pans out.

I guess I should probably worry about my team qualifying for CMP first, though.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Intimate normally means small and crowded

I wonder if there will even be bleachers or seating in these "intimate" pit fields.
Or will they just be glorified practice fields...

I guess they need more room to put FTC and LEGO LEAGUE in front of everyone in the DOME. Or more room for VIPS or something...

This is, indeed, very disappointing...a logistics nightmare.

I don't get it... but don't expect anyone to tell you why...especially BILL

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

From what I can tell, there has been NO INFORMATION about the "social" or "finale" from [i]FRIST[i] or Steele Meetings other than "we will have one" and all details are "TBA".

Anyone have any other information?

Will there be one? Will food be available? Anyone know?

-Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

What happened to KISS? This is just asking for trouble. If the venue could not accommodate 4 fields, they should've picked a different venue.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Aw man! I hope they aren't kicking two FRC fields to the pits so FLL and FTC can be showcased in the dome. You can't even see the action from the stands!
ARGH!

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Oh man, if the stage is bigger for the "entertainment" side of FIRST........I just don't know....

or maybe they kicked out two FRC fields cause they couldn't fit a 4th and make it the "black sheep" field.....I wish he posted on why the fields are the pits, it'll give a little more ease of mind even if it's still a logistics nightmare.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Is anyone missing Atlanta already?

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Is the location of the pits known?

Spectators' ability to see the pit fields seems like an obvious concern. It was pretty easy for everyone to see when each field had its own corner of the Georgia Dome. Hopefully that has been one of the team's considerations as they make their arrangements.

This is a puzzling move. I wonder if they're trying to set things up so it's easier for more people to watch Einstein at the end. That has been an issue in the two years I was there.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Who wants to pay 5K to play in the pits?

I've never been to the Championship Event, but I think I miss Atlanta despite that fact. My team has a outsiders shot at making in in through the MSC points system, but honestly if we play in the pits there is nothing special about the event. On a side note: If the switch is made at noon on Friday than doesn't that give some teams more time on the main field 6 hours Thursday and 3.5 Friday. The others will get 5 hours Friday and roughly 3.5 at the most Saturday. That means one group gets an extra hour on the good fields. For 5K teams deserve to play on a better spot than "in the pits."

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Only for half the event.
So you're actually paying $2500 to play in the pits.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Now I'm afraid they're going to say one of the fields IS EINSTEIN.........I hope not....
I just remembered the whole will.i.am stuff, what if they do have bigger stage for entertainment stuff????

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Nah. They wouldn't do that.
That would do more damage to FIRST's reputation than anything they have ever done in the past.
I can't see then doing it.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

The prospect of having to organize scouting around this is driving me out of my mind but the more important point is what are they gonna be doing for the elimination matches? Are 2 of the divisions going to be playing elimination matches in the pit?

Are you gonna even be able to watch your team play if you manage to make the eliminations? The pits will be too crowded to be able to see the field.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I just keep shaking my head. I can't believe this. Championship suddenly just lost it's allure. Feels like we'll be competing at another Regional, rather than at the World Championships...

They didn't mention where teams would be for practice matches. How is it fair that teams could possibly spend all day Thursday, and half of Friday in the Dome, while the rest of the teams have to suffer sitting on bleachers in the pits, and only get a half a day in the dome on Friday? No mention of qualification matches on Saturday. Will two divisions be sharing a field in the dome for Eliminations? Something that stuck out when I read the blog is the use of the word "Qualification" fields.

I just don't know why they would release only part of the information. Leaves us with so many questions.

And as Justin said, tune in to our show tomorrow night, as we will definitely be talking about this! http://www.livestream.com/MikeandJustinITM (and don't forget to vote at http://www.FRCTop25.com)

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I'm fine with it. I have no problem playing in the pits.

My concern is the switch halfway through Friday. This is an unnecessary logistical headache for teams. We've had to tweak our automodes at every regional we attend because the distance between the tower and the scoring pegs has been different. Also, as Jon Jack mentioned, any field switching is a nightmare for teams using line trackers or the camera. Going to a brand new field in the middle of the day is an unnecessary challenge for the teams. I hope FIRST reconsiders this decision and leaves the divisions stationary. I'd much rather stay in the pit for all division play, then be bouncing around. If they do decide to do thee bouncing, at least don't make it a midday switch, which has the additional hassle of moving all team members from one location to another.

I'm sure logistical headaches have forced FIRST to go with divisions in the pits. I get that. I just hope they won't add logistical headaches for the teams by making us move around.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Even the low-cost District events don't have to play matches in the pits.

If I was going, this would distress me greatly. As it is, it distresses me anyway.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Have preregistered teams already paid, or do they still have the opportunity to back out?

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I don't want to judge this decision without knowing the details/reasons and seeing how it works out but here are some thoughts:

--One of my favorite things about going to Atlanta was walking into the dome for the first time with a rookie student and having them exclaim how grand the dome looks with 6 fields on the floor. I hope this isn't lost in St. Louis.

-- The lack of qualification matches on Saturday (and longer days on Thursday and Friday) make me (and others who already posted) wonder if eliminations will start on Saturday morning. It would add an interesting twist to Friday night scouting meetings if you know the top 8 for sure.

-- As Mike mentioned below, perhaps two divisions will share the same field in the dome. If so, I think it would be interesting to have Curie Alliance selection, Newton alliance selection, Curie quarterfinals, Newton quarterfinals, Curie semifinals.... Thus, alliances would have additional time to strategize before each round.

-- I hope there is plenty of seating in the pit fields...

In the end I expect there to be some headaches and issues as it is a pretty drastic change from previous championships, but I don't think it will ruin the event. But, if teams want to back out of the 'train wreck', I'm sure I can think of some teams who would want to go;)

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Man... you don't think that is just being a TOUCH over-dramatic? C'mon... really?

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I'm sure some teams, like your own, would be fine with doing this. However some teams, like my own, lack the cash most years to attend even when we are good enough. For the teams that only get to go once every 3 or 4 years it is greatly distressing to not get your money's worth. Like I have said previously I have never gotten the opportunity to attend the Championship Event. However if this is as bad as it sounds I almost don't want to be a part of it.

This sounds a lot like a MI District. While they are fine for what they are and preferable to regionals, I don't want the Championship Event to just feel like half district and half Championship Event.

For the sake of all teams attending I hope it turns out better than this. Teams that are good enough to make it deserve to have something special and sponsors deserve the money they donate teams to be spent better.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I meant this more as "I guess there's a silver lining to not making it this year" but I'm not having a particularly good day with communication.

Since our first trip would be after 2011, FIRST will know whether or not this worked by then.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Imma be miles away from the pits when the switch over happens. EVERYONE will be in the pits when the switch happens so they can get good seats.

Intimate isn't bad but I feel that that is what happens at small regionals. I just feel like intimate/switching will be a huge headache and crowded/crazy always brings out the bad in people. Stand issues are already bad enough with saving seats and all and who knows how bad it will be in the pit fields when they switch.

FIRST just might be doing the locomotion... I'll just make sure I'm miles away when the trains collide head on! :) ;)

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

It won't be. This this a classic case of overly-dramtic complaining on CD. I don't always approve of the decision FIRST makes, but I have to believe they will be prepared and thought-out enough to ensure this isn't a disastor as some make it seem it will be.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm eager to be playing matches in the pit, compared to what we had at the Georgia Dome last year. But given the choice between spending all our time in the pit fields, or moving back and forth and dealing with all the associated hassles, I'd take the pit in a heartbeat.

Anyways, before we all get worked up over this setup, let's wait and see what details emerge. It can't be as bad as everyone is making it seem.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Hmmm over dramatic? Maybe.

I think what a lot of people are wondering is why? WHY is this happening if Jones is bigger? Why do teams need to move? At lunch teams need to pack up, move, and eat. Hopefully their will be a longer break to ease the rush of teams trying to get good seats again.

I hope FIRST really is thinking this through but it just doesn't sound like a good idea. I don't think releasing it without more details is good either!

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I really don't see how they are going to have enough seating to accommodate roughly 86 teams for each field. Chesapeake has bleacher seating on each side of the field and it barely accommodated 60 teams. :confused:

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Given the choice, I would rather play all my matches in one place or the other and not have the move 1/2 way through.

But I know for many teams and students, this could be their only visit to the Championship event and it is a very cool thing to be out on the dome floor playing, even if it is only for 1/2 the time.

We will make it work and adjust as we need to.

And, it isn't that much different from most regionals, where you are effectively playing "in the pits" because you just walk from the pits to the field to the stands - all one level and all close.

The other benefit is that we have students who are on the pit crew or talk to judges who never see us play a match at CHP due to the travel time. This solves that!

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

What does this mean?
What happens Saturday AM?

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Maybe they're gonna go all Battlecry and have 16 alliances. battle it out in all the divisions.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I wonder if they needed room for the Collegiate FIRST event in the dome. :confused:

April 20th is a long ways to wait for more information. It sounds like they are still working out the details. I wonder what kinds of things are still up for negotiation and how our comments here might influence the final decisions. This is not the kind of change I was looking forward to as the Championship Event comes to my home state.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I was wondering about saturday morning too. So if your not playing maybe you can get your room refunded and head home early. I say this in jest,mostly.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I would say with almost certainty that if there aren't qualification matches Saturday morning (and alliance selection is on Friday), we will see at least a few teams leave the event after Friday to save money.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Who else is seriously concerned about the noise level in the pit/pit field area?

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

What collegiate FIRST event? :rolleyes:

@Kara: Seems to be a theme this year!

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

We are a local St. Louis team, and I am disappointed to hear this. We have been working hard to publicize this event as a great opportunity for the public to see what we do. We were working to put together a field trip for several classes of 2nd grade students to watch. Now that we know this setup, I believe that our staff sponsors will choose to cancel that field trip. They are also not nearly as proud to invite the superintendent and other administrators when there may or may not even be a place to sit. We told them we were excited to be playing in the Dome, and now that may not even be the truth depending on when they can come.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I'm curious what the walk will be between the two fields. If a team could get two sets of calibration readings in 45 minutes (even pushing the robot on the cart--might as well get used to it), relief from those frustrations seems to be a sticky note away.

Cosigned. This'll be my first Championship outside of Atlanta, and I know there will be speedbumps, but I doubt that Bill Miller is up in his office right now twirling his mustache and cackling evilly. Playing qualification matches in the pits is highly unlikely to be the worst thing our team has experienced all year (even if Friday at Peachtree was a bit of a curvebuster).

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

As always, you can view the full agenda on the championship website: http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/...nt.aspx?id=432 I wouldn't expect Bill to duplicate the entire agenda. As usual, there qualification matches and division eliminations on Saturday.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Here is the agenda which denotes Sat AM.

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...a_3-7-2011.pdf

It's been a month since it's been updated. But somewhat a clue to your question.

EDIT: Joe beat me to the punch....

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

It was updated 3/21 according to the note at the bottom, they just didn't update the filename. However, based on the content, I wouldn't be surprised if it was updated this week.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Shouldn't be too bad--it's virtually level, and Hall 5 is maybe 5-10 minutes from Hall 6 (the arena, depending on where you're going in the arena). Hall 1, at the opposite end of the convention halls, would be another 10-15 accounting for traffic and robot towing.

Depending on how long calibration took, I'd say you could probably do it in about 30 minutes for both fields. 45 is a reasonable guesstimate to account for everyone else trying to do the same thing. Maybe as long as an hour.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

The public agenda is inconsistent with Bill's posting. His posting clearly states different times from the posted agenda and directly states in all capitals that "MATCHES ARE SCHEDULED TO END AT 5PM" on Friday suggesting this may be the end time for all qualifying matches. The public agenda in its' current form can not be used for scheduling purposes until all changes are incorporated. Whether we are talking about qualifying matches ending completely at 5pm on Friday or things will be as usual on Saturday morning needs to be clarified. It most likely will be business as usual, but there are obviously drastic changes being considered so we need to wait on an update.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Well the schedule as posted above isn't final (as stated)
Bill's blog post shows at least one difference already.
FRC qual matches end on 5 Friday (it shows 6 on the posted schedule)
I didn't check for other changes....

you beat me Mike :0)

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I keep holding out hope that this is just a delayed action April Fools joke.
This is such an awful idea.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

That will be a sight to see, I'm bringing a video camera. I just need to remember to film the stampede from a safe place :ahh:
Maybe Ethernet? :rolleyes:

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I would seem to infer that since what Bill said in his blog would update the agenda on the FIRST website by ending an hour earlier on Friday and going an hour later on Thursday, that the Plan Pending at 8PM on Friday may be a possible reason that they had to move two fields to the pit area.

Going on to the EJD site and the GD site one can basically see that it appears the floor space of the EJD is in fact larger than the GD, by how much would depend on if they had the retractable seats extended or not in the EJD.

On another note, I personally think that this isn't truly that bad of a situation. It has its Pros and Cons, but why not give something a try before completely dismissing it. As a student of process and logistics engineering, I do agree that it provides at first glance somewhat of a logistical nightmare, but we don't even know yet how many of the Exhibit Halls FIRST is taking up in the Convention Center, so for all we know, there could be a whole lot more space in the pit area this year.

**And some people beat me to some of my points**

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Same here.

This will make the dome look even more empty with half of the teams in another place. Seems like the pit will be the main attraction with two fields and the robots housed.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Or maybe even wireless.......just hope they don't have problems like the robots :rolleyes:

........Although in a serious answer, they will probably use the backup files that the FMS creates would be my guess. Just hope that person that is in charge or running from one field to the other doesn't get lost....

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

If you really think about it. it will be 4 fields in the pits and 3 in the dome.

2 divisional fields and 2 practice fields.

Then the 2 divisional fields and the one Einstein.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I'm wondering if they'll change the time for the Dean's List presentation...any teams that have Dean's List students are going to want to be there, and it's currently scheduled for exactly the time that all the teams are supposed to switch fields...

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I know that unfortunately. :o

I was commenting on how the dome will be quiet with half the teams and 2 less fields. If I was a visitor I wouldn't even bother hanging in the dome but rather go to the pits as that is where you have the best of both worlds: pits and qual fields.

Here is something new I just picked up on. He keeps saying qualification fields. Does that mean eliminations will be in the dome? I am very confuzzled.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

We should have a 'Steps Taken For FIRST' contest. Everyone wear a pedometer and keep a log of how many miles you walked at the St. Louis Championship. That could be a lot of fun. Do they make pedometers for robot carts?

Jane

P.S. What is this going to do to the whole "ROBOT" yell in the midst of an exodus? Create a chorus line?

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

The only counting that'll be going on with me is the hundreds of times I will be counting to ten trying to lead these teams too the proper field amidst all the chaos FIRST has wrought.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Like many of the posters on this thread, I too am not pleased with this news. I hope there's another part of "the plan" that hasn't been unveiled yet, to take away this bitter taste of disappointment.

I loved the situation in the Georgia Dome. I loved being able to walk the oval and go from Curie to Archimedes to Newton to Galileo. I loved searching for my 'home regional' teams and visiting with them. I liked 'the intimacy' of each individual field, but I liked 'all of it together' in one spot. Common lighting, common seating, predictable restroom locations, overpriced food. I guess I will miss that.

But still...

My kids are stoked. No one on 1899 has been to CMP, ever... not the mentors, not the kids. This will be their first time... it might be their only time.

They are so looking forward to sharing the field with HOF teams, powerhouse teams, RCA winners, and regional winners from around the globe. They're excited about touring the pits and seeing these fantastic machines up close and personal, machines that they've only seen on webcasts or photos.

Without Atlanta as a reference, they will have a nice empty canvas to paint their own memories from this experience. I won't let this situation bring them down.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Took the words out of my mouth. Teams have a hard enough time hearing calls for their teams to report to the field in a normal pit environment. Add to that 2 actual competition fields with teams cheering and shouting? That's a nightmare waiting to happen.

And like many other people I'm curious as to how they decide who gets priority on the dome fields for the elimination matches on Saturday.

I'm willing to wait and give things a chance...but so far they aren't off to a very good start with the new venue.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Unfortunately, calls are not made at the championship event.

To address the problem of transfering field information, why not just drag over the computer that is made to be portable? I believe theses are turned off overnight at each regional.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I didn't know that calls weren't made (I was either in the stands or on the field during qualifiers) and knowing this, the pit set up sounds even more of a logistical nightmare....although I do think I'll be right next to Don with some popcorn to watch the stampede.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

just my two cents and not substantiated but i was told by shippers that the reasons for the multiple fields was the big, surprise musical act for the team party.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I'm not too pleased either; I loved everything about Atlanta... But this reminds me of when FIRST changed to districts for Michigan and everyone got in a huff about that too. That ended up working out with little complaint from people now-a-days. So I'm going to say what I said then:

FIRST encourages us to innovate and try new things, lets do the same for them.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

That was my immediate reaction as well.

I was told that one of the big reasons for choosing St. Louis over Indianapolis for the FIRST Championship was the difficulty of getting all the fields to fit in Lucas Oil Stadium and have good visibility and seating for Einstein without shortchanging the FLL and FTC programs. I'm sure that leaving out two of the FRC division fields would have satisfied that issue, but I'm just as sure that such a proposal would have been laughed down had anyone been silly enough to suggest it.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

The big surprise musical act? Is that the same team party that follows the closing ceremonies? The ones that follow the World Championship? The World Championship that teams that are competing at paid lots of money to compete at?

Surely that can't be the reason.

Jane

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

To try and calm a few nerves, we were set up in a convention center at Smoky mountain regional and it was one of the best environments I have ever been in. The stands were comfortable and spacious and the pits that were set up right next to the playing field were spacious and the most quiet FIRST pits I have ever been in.

So if it's done properly the fears of the pit being too loud or not enough seating in the stands can be mitigated.

Now having said that: Why FIRST chose a venue that can't accommodate 6 fields + FTC is totally beyond me (well not totally but I won't speculate further.).

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

At Disney, if my memory is correct...there were a couple of setups.

One was three stages (two small, one big) and teams rotated from small to big to make sure everyone got a chance to play on the big stage. There were reserved seating areas that teams had to rotate in and out of during/after their match. It worked well enough.

As Nationals got bigger, it turned into the main pit tent, two tents with fields, and Einstein Stage. Each field tent had two fields and each field was a division (Einstein was a division the first year, but only the first year...I think). I think this was the same setup in 2001 and 2002. Your division field was where you played most of your matches and was where the elims were held. Each division rotated to Einstein for an hour at a time I believe and I think everyone played two matches out there...not consecutively. Divisional seating was tiny... bleachers maybe had 15, 20 rows at max, and were the length of the field plus a bit more. ON ONE SIDE ONLY. I don't know how people watched matches (I was on the field), but that was part of the reason we're no longer at Disney. We got too big.

If the pit hall is anything like the Atlanta pits, I don't see how this will work. Traffic and queuing are going to be a mess (at least queuing in the dome, albeit LONG, was scenic), its going to be noisy, and seating will be nonexistent. Ceiling height could be an issue too (there are some human players with high throwing arcs). Will the pit fields have video production? Will they have a visible screen for teams to watch (drive teams especially?)?

I've never been in the EJD but if it is at least the same floor space as the Georgia Dome, there was plenty of wasted space that could have been put to better use. Not to mention that once FLL and FTC pack up, Einstein was left vacant for the better part of two days and the FTC space became a giant void. FIRST College could use Einstein if FRC fields are being moved for that.

Plus - no robot parade!?! This irks me...not just because we finally earned a spot in the would be parade this year, but because I loved seeing all the mascots, HOF teams, and RCA teams get their moment in the spotlight - the time for the teams that might not have the best robot but represent what FIRST is all about to be seen by all.

At least there's no Houston ramps to deal with....

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I'm getting an unpleasant image of the Championships becoming the "Super Bowl of Robotics", where advertising and a lame half time show dominate the actual competition.

But luckily it's just an image and the reality will be impressive teams doing impressive things in a spectacular competition (fingers crossed...)

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

It's certainly going to be annoying. I know we'll be hunting down our alliance mates for the first match or two after Friday noon just to make sure they're clued in. It could be a little worse, though. If I recall correctly, Disney involved multiple switches to the main field, not just one big switch over.

I'm definitely most concerned about all the implications of switching from one field to another in the middle of a regional. Different field, autonomous problems, possibly different staff and refs. It's either different refs, or refs that are also getting used to a different field and environment.

I'm not really enthusiastic about any of the other switchover logistics either. There's near zero chance they're going to bother switching over any of the video feed stuff on Friday, so teams recording will need to switch equipment from pits to dome fields. And the webcasts are probably going to be confusing thanks to that as well. Sponsors and friends back home are totally going to lose track of you over the Friday switch.

All in all, I have to agree with Karthik that I'd rather play on the pit field for the whole competition than have to deal with the hassle of switching fields. You can put me in the "Alright, we'll deal with it" camp. I'm not going to pretend like there's any possibility FIRST can somehow make this good. They've declared we're switching fields halfway through the competition, and by my definition that's a step down from Atlanta no matter how much they reduce the impact of it.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Looking at the Agenda, I had this idea and it may be what FIRST is planning...

Thursday and Friday, FRC utilizes half of the dome and the pits for our qualification matches.

Thursday and Friday FLL and FTC use the other half of the dome for their qualification matches.

Friday at 5pm, after FTC has their alliance selections, Volunteers tear down the FLL and FTC fields, move 2 FTC fields to Einstein for their elimination matches Saturday morning, and set-up two FRC fields in their place for our divisional elimination matches.

This way by Saturday Morning FTC can have their elims on Einstein and we can return to our traditional Saturday format with all 4 fields in the dome plus Einstein.

I wouldn't really be happy about being bumped for Thursday and Friday but I understand that for FLL and FTC this is their Championship too.

If this is what FIRST is planning then I have to echo what others have said and don't have teams switch mid-day on Friday. Have half of us play in the pits all day Thursday. Then switch it up for Friday and then have everyone in the Dome on Saturday.

That really wouldn't be terrible.....

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Oh man, does that hurt. Thanks for that one. I managed to miss all that as I was on the field running scoring, but I heard the stories of the shopping carts and all that. Fields in Reliant Stadium and Pits on the Astrodome floor has to be one of the top ten worst ideas FIRST has ever had.

For the record, that was entirely the brainchild of FIRST HQ. The Lone Star RD and Planning Committee tried to tell FIRST it was a horrible idea, but they went ahead with it anyways. I maintain that Houston could have hosted a great Championship that year in the Reliant Convention Center if FIRST hadn't been dead set on the idea of having the fields on a football stadium floor.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Sir, I submit that your proposed solution is, in fact, even worse than the assumption that two division will be playing elims in the pits. You really want to force half of the teams to adjust their robots to accommodate THREE different fields in a single competition? With no on field calibration time for two of them? That's bordering on perverse.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Ed, you said it. Talk about MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR confusion. This is going to be a mess for everyone. It's just going to turn into a free for all.

Cass

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Sorry but it's looking like that's going to happen anyway. FTC and FLL will be done on Saturday. Do you think they are going to let half of the dome just sit there?

I think they are calling them Qualification fields for a reason, Elimination fields will be in the dome in my opinion. You better figure out how to calibrate your robot quickly...

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

*pleaseletthisbeanaprilfoolsjoke*pleaseletthisbean aprilfoolsjoke*pleaseletthisbeanaprilfoolsjoke*

:ahh:

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

This would make sense as why the changes. What are the chances that the Black Eyes Peas are going to play for the wrap party? The space needed for their staging would easily take the space of 2 fields.

Maybe the "Peas" will bring some of their friends, just imagine Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga playing at an FIRST event!

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Just a word of advice to all teams attending. Make sure that your robot will pass inspection. With only part of Wednesday evening and 1/2 day Thursday it will be tough on the inspectors. The sooner that you get inspection started the better chance you will have of playing.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Anyone remember Mandy Moore, circa 2002?

Everybody walked out. I don't know if she was good or bad; the teams were generally interested in the free food located beyond the gates of the EPCOT Center, and started evacuating the stadium as she performed her set. It must have been a bit disconcerting for the performers.

I do suspect that there is a valid logistical reason for this; I just hope it's all worth it. FIRST, send more details!

And I echo all the comments about Houston and Orlando—except that I think that in 1999, there were only two fields: a large bandshell for Einstein, and a small one for Newton, both outdoors.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Height shouldn't be an issue; there's a 2nd floor, just not in the convention hall areas. There's actually what looks like a sort of press box above Hall 4.

The halls are laid out in a reverse L shape.
1__2__3__4
..............5

Noise will be an issue. There better be seating in there...

My bet is that Halls 4 and 5 will be used for the pit fields; Halls 1-3 will be the rest of the pits (including practice fields).

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Could FIRST be dealing with a space issue on the dome floor? Based on these pictures Atlanta has more of an oval shape compared to Edward's rectangle which looks like an issue when trying to have 6 fields operating independantly.


St. Louis: http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...E4imN92VYY&t=1

Atlanta:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_x2NwiFwMad...orgia+Dome.jpg

Just some thoughts to be considering with a new event/arena.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Where did you get this info? I couldn't find a floor plan for the entire center (not just the dome).

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Nah, no way the brain-trust of FIRST believes our teams would want to compete in FRC's "showcase event" in a rag-tag fashion just so we can adore a performing artist at the end.

No way!

Oh, that's right, Dave and Woodie left the GDC, never mind...

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I wonder if it was a poor choice of words for Bill to say the playing fields will be "in the pits." Perhaps, "near the pits" would have been a better choice. In Seattle this year, for instance, both fields were "in the pits", seperated by just a curtain. And it worked great. There was sufficient bleacher space, but not the empty voids of the upper levels of Key Arena from previous years.

I also played at a regional (GTR several years ago) where you alternated playing fields randomly from match to match. It wasn't that big of a deal. I'm sure teams can figure out how to move from one field to another at a pre-determined time. If they can't, then... well, "super bowl of smarts" is a bit of a misnomer, don't you think?

Sure, Atlanta was a great setup. This isn't Atlanta. Some things may be better, some may be worse, but as much as I've disagreed with some of the decisions made by the FIRST board in the past, FRC has continued to grow and continued to provide students with an awesome experience. These people are competent and make pretty good decisions most of the time.

So maybe it will be the worst championship ever, twenty-three people will die in the stampede from pit to field at lunch on Friday, everyone will agree that it was really not worth attending, and no one will ever go to championships again for the next two years... but do you really, REALLY think so?

Easy for me to say, of course... I'm not going... but the level of doom and gloom here just seems a bit over the top. The FIRST board usually has a good reason for what they do... even when some of us don't necessarily agree with them.

Jason

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Ya, one guy on our team was a big fan and threw his MOE shirt on the stage :D The reaction of everyone else on the team was the same: "You could have traded that shirt, the is no way that Mandy keeps that shirt!". I felt the need to lighten up this thread a bit;) I think a big musical act would have better success this time around since the choices are different. Last time, it was Mandy vs. EPCOT (w/ free food) exclusively open to FIRST Teams. This time if it is Black Eyed Peas vs. go back to the hotel, I think most teams will choose Black Eyed Peas. Black Eyed Peas are bigger than Mandy Moore ever was (just played Super Bowl) and I think teams that would normally leave when not selected in Elims would stay for a concert, creating to a larger crowd. Unfortunately, that crowd might be an issue for teams returning to the dome after playing their Elim matches in the pits :(

Looking at the floor plan for America's Center, I wonder which halls they would use for the fields? Obviously, Einstein and 2 Qual Fields will be in Hall 6 (EJ Dome). Possible places I guess the other Fields could be:
-Hall 5: This would consolidate the Volunteers and Security around Hall 5, the Annex and the EJ Dome.
-Hall 3 or 4: Fields as bookends to the pits. Possibly better noise isolation and traffic flow around the fields. FTC & FLL pits might be closer to the EJ Dome where they are presumably playing their matches.
My best guess is Hall 5, what do you guys think?

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Somehow, in view of recent Super Bowl half time shows, I don't think that participating in one is necessarily a good recommendation, especially for a "family" event.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

I was at a conference in the America's Center a couple winters ago. Food was in Hall 5, seating in Hall 4 (and some of 3), and exhibits and stuff like that were in 1, 2, and 3. Main speaking area was in the Arena.

If they've fully changed that over, I'd be beyond shocked.

I'm with Lucas on where the fields will probably be. Hall 5, maybe 4 for overflow. The only other thing that might make sense would be 1 and 2 for getting visitors coming in that entrance.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Did you watch the Super Bowl? You'd be proud of that trainwreck of a live performance playing at Championships? In fact, any of the last couple Super Bowl performers sucked worse than a brand-new vacuum cleaner.

I'd choose Mandy Moore over the Black Eyed Peas any day. But that's just me.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Have the wrap party at the same venue as the finals? That means all those people will be descending on the party at once. What a disaster.

Remember when they announced Rack'N'Roll tubes would be available to take AFTER the finals were over. Hundreds of students poured onto the field then.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

From what I read, Bill's Blog didn't mention anything about field swapping on Saturday.

I think that the switch on Friday is to allow FTC and FLL to run in the dome on Friday, (Figure FTC takes up the space of two FRC fields now, and FLL is run on Einstein) and they should be wrapped up by Saturday morning, allowing all 4 divisions to run in the dome.

Just a thought.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Yeah I remember that announcement. But my team was focused on staying together so I couldn't get any.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

Please try to keep an open mind when it comes to Championship. Some things to think about, some have been said some not.

1. This may be YOUR 5th - 10th trip to Championship/Nationals, this may be the 1st and only trip form many teams & kids. Let everyone play in the dome. If that means you to calibrate your robot for 2 different fields, do so without huge complaint. Know that some kid will walk into the dome and it will be the coolest thing that his team gets to play there!

2. Most of your team doesn't have to wait until noon exactly to move. Unless you have the last match on that field then you do. Most people will transition after thier last match ends on that field. Yes I know scouting will be a pain.

3. No robot parade? This does seem like a downer, especially for teams that finally earned the right to walk in it. Have they always had the parade? I don't remember one before Atlanta? I think the logistics of walking teams around that large of a space it just a bit difficult.

4. I wouldn't be surprised to se only 2 fields in the dome and not 2 plus Einstein. By looking at the schedule it would seem all elimination matches will be on 2 fields. Don't get any crazy ideas about 16 teams per division playing it out. This is probably the reason for qualification matches ending at 10:30 not noon.

5. The convention center is pretty big. http://www.explorestlouis.com/meetin...Tour/index.asp If you take the photo tour you can see some size. The space for 4 & 5 are almost the same as the Dome Floor itself. You could easily fit 2 fields & bleachers in there. This keeps all fields somewhat together. Look at the specs that Lucas posted for the number of 10X10 booths you can fit in each hall. They can probably close off part of a wall to reduce the noise from one section to another. They did this at Chesapeake and it helped a ton!

6. Number of teams, last time I checked there were only around 300 teams on the list. That number will grow after this weekend but by how many? Even if there are 320 teams thats 80 teams to a division. Big but not huge.

Guys, the past is behind us, lets look forward to a great event. Instead of pointing out the possible flaws and complaining, lets see if we can help FIRST make this an awesome event.

Re: Bills Blog - Champs info
 

One schedule thing I'm curious about.

Who in first honestly and firmly believes that the finals on Einstein will take only two hours? It's scheduled like that every year, but I have never been to the Championship when that was the case.