Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

Pretty much what I was saying in more in-depth analysis. Great post *gives rep point*

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

No offense Kim and although I may seem like I am whining, speculation is over. And it is disheartening to be told one thing for years listening to Dean's speeches and now two fields are being moved for a concert.

Yes, they haven't said the fields have been moved for a reason beside the concert, but they still haven't offered another position as to why they were moved besides that they wanted a more "intimate" field experience and "trying something new". I see the dome floor and I was hoping that FLL and FTC would be expanded as they have been squished, but all I see is half of the floor taken up for a concert stage...... what are we celebrating? What are we sending as our message? What are the rookie teams who are competing in the pits for most of the weekend supposed to think? What is now the center of attention, the robots and students or a stage?

I understand that we may be "whining" however this is really disheartening to see.

Entitlement? Now that is dope.

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

Kim,

Normally I'd agree. However, in the layout maps, over 1/2 of the Dome floor space seems taken for what certainly appears to be a concert space. OVER 1/2! The picture in Bill's Blog looks like it's taken from the floor in an area I know fairly well, at about the 1/3 mark from A and D entrances (might be between 1/3 and 1/2). That's why it looks so small. It's taken from the D side, looking towards the A entrance. That grid in the air on the right side is for one of the fields. You're really only looking at a corner of the venue, not an end. The rest of the pictures are in the convention center's halls, or the passthrough between Hall 5 and the arena floor. Those won't tell you anything about the arena area.

There is MORE than enough room for 4 FRC fields, FTC, and FLL/Einstein, and most likely the Aerial Robotics group of teams as well, on the floor of the Dome.

This is really starting to look like L.A. 2008, except intentional. (For those that weren't there: The arena double-booked, so the American Gladiators water tank was in half the arena floor. Pits were cramped and so was the field. Normally, space wasn't an issue--that year, it was.) Hopefully the result will be about the same--L.A. 2009 had 10'x15' pits and plenty of open space (practice field and competition field and machine shop, too).

Edit: I wonder if the theater in the same complex is being used for anything that night...

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

Proper hygiene is a good start :)

Teams can't be possessive of "their" seats on the pit fields. If no one's sitting in a seat, it doesn't belong to any team. Team sections will need to expand and contract as team members come and go. Everyone needs to be willing to share.

Kim, from this diagram, it's pretty apparent that two fields were moved from the dome to the pit to make way for the giant stage on the right. If there was a problem fitting divisions + FTC + Einstein in the dome, they would (or at least should) have realized it before they signed the contract and notice would have gone out a lot sooner about the change.

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

I never attribute to malice what I can equally attribute to poor decisions. I believe FIRST will do whatever it feels is right. I know FIRST is made up of humans who do make mistakes. I feel this is one of those mistakes. Stating that I am unhappy with how things are playing out does not make me entitled or negative or "un GP" (as someone will surely claim at some point). It makes me a concerned mentor. It makes me a customer who, having spent a good deal of money and time to get to this stage, wants to get a lot of bang for their buck. I want my students to realize that people like Andy Baker are rockstars and are at least as worthy of multimillion dollar contracts as Will.I.Am. I just don't see how the perception of being shoved aside for some pop concert isn't saying that it is more important than the engineers... Remember, perception is more important than intent.

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

Others have already responded to this, but the floor of the Edward Jones Dome is either comparable to or significantly larger than the floor of the Georgia Dome depending on whether the retractable seats are out or retracted. I posted exact numbers in the Bill's Blog post that announced the fields in the pit (I think that's where it was).

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

wow i can't believe FIRST put the popular culture before their own message. i think we can all agree that FIRST got star struck and decided what it did. no offense to will.i.am or the other people performing, but i would rather half the arena be set off for a mythbusters experiment. that's more on topic than a singer. plus the mythbusters are better in the first place, and would probably have us still have our fields in the dome and take the pit area set aside for the fields instead because they would realize the intention of the event they were at.

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

According to the FAQ for the concert, it looks like having fields in the pit area might become permanent:

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

Thanks. I apparently missed the map that had the Dome in it (only saw the one with the pits). Personally, I'm still looking forward to not having to walk all the way to the dome every day, but I guess I am one of those glass is half full people.

For those of you that are so outraged, I would highly suggest taking Ike's suggestion and crafting a well written letter/email to FIRST. Complaints here, while often read, do not have the power of direct and well written letters. If enough people are really upset, they will make the change (perhaps not until next year, but they will react).

But for all the mentors out there I would really encourage you to think about what your complaints (now) do for the kids. Are they really going to have a terrible time because one of the days they have to sit on some bleachers in the pits? Or can you help them have a positive attitude, realizing all the amazing robots they are going to get to see, the amazing people they can meet, the presentations, scholarships etc... Its all what we make of it, and the biggest thing that I have learned about being a mentor is that your kids will follow your lead a lot more than you might ever expect. If you have a negative attitude, so will they, and they will likely have a worse time. Do you want to be the reason they have a worse time and a bad attitude? or can you encourage them to go have a great time, and let them make that decision for themselves?

No more CD for me... I'm going to go have a good time this weekend :) See you all there!

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

Entertainers/Rockstars/Athletes might get multi-million dollar contracts... but only Engineers get multi-billion dollar contracts.

I wish someone could just ask Bill (or FIRST), "If will.i.am and his friends weren't performing, would all four FRC fields have been on the arena floor?" When you speculate it's really easy to make assumptions, and we all know what those do...

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

It seems highly unlikely that FIRST would choose and contract for 3 years with a venue that cannot hold the event. The EJ Dome is a football field dome like the Georgia Dome is.

I'm sure when presented with the opportunity for this concert it was a very difficult offer to turn down, and as I said there is nothing wrong with incorporating Will.i.am's support into the event somehow. I understand the concept of attracting kids to FIRST, promotion, mainstreaming, etc. I'm just saying that defending STEM as our first cultural priority and not allowing the pull of pop culture to obscure our priorities is supposed to be the central idea of FIRST, and scrambling the FIRST Champs to make room for a concert sends the opposite symbolic message.

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

As far as the actual seating issue goes, I think we'll manage. We manage to fit 72 teams into a high school gym every summer. Granted teams bring a few less people in average to IRI, but the point still stands. FIRSTers are great at making due with the space given.

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

(some emphasis mine)

Jeff,
I know you probably didn't see the details (the few that are shared right now) of the Friday night event before you posted but we shouldn't trivialize it as a pop music concert. FIRST seems to be trying to turn this (and probably other parts of the competition) into a television special. CD has pretty much universally applauded previous TV specials like Gearing Up (PBS), and MSC this year (local ABC).

With celebrity guests, like will.i.am and Morgan Freeman, this could have appeal to a much larger audience than previous efforts. Spreading the message of FIRST through celebrities & TV is in line with the core mission of FIRST from my perspective. FIRST's MO has always been "use the culture to change the culture", for example utilizing the sports model for a robot competition.

Lack of info about the Friday night event is probably the reason it has become such a big deal. I hope Bill will go into the process how these decisions are made in one of the FRC Live shows. I am on Curie, so I have similar concerns about scouting and room, particularly for Elim matches. It is not optimal, but it will work out alright in the end (I like a few others posted here have been to Epcot for 2 years and loved it bleachers and all). If this event turns into a national (or even international) TV Special, I feel the sacrifice of space is definitely worth it. Even if it doesn't make it to the national level, I believe it was worth the effort/experiment this year.

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

sigh. While I'm not happy with what appears to be, I have decided (and advise all you as well) to actually experience it before complaining.

Don

Re: pic: Bills Blog - Bleachers in pit
 

As I have said twice, I understand the concept of maintstreaming FIRST, attracting kids, bringing media attention to the event, etc. I am glad for the support of Will.I.am. It is the execution and symbolic priority that concerns me. To me the approach should have been: this will be great and we will incorprate it somehow, but only if it does not interfere with the main prioirty, which is the FIRST competition. Displacing half of the competition from the main venue to make room for a concert screams the message that the concert is more important than the competition. When they put on a big show at the Superbowl, they do not make the teams play on half of a field to make room for it. They find a way to make it happen without interfering with the real purpose of the event.