Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

Perhaps they could have been relocated to just outside the main FRC pit entrance (in the huge common area where people waited in the mornings to get into the pit)? Everyone would have to walk by them then! My only thought against it would be a possible fire hazard for mass exit from the pits?

Lots of positives from St. Louis makes me think next year will be even better. The issue of needing safety glasses to get to a field was a bit of a pain. Since I forsee pit fields in the future, perhaps the fields could be moved closer to the main entrances, and put the pits where the fields were this year? The side doors to the halls could have been better utilized, even if it required more volunteers and more safety glasses to distribute. Would have made the commute to the dome a little easier.

Other than the food at the after party being less than desirable and the mass confusion that was the after party, I thought everything at Championship was great!

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

Lots of thought fodder in this thread. I'd like to see some diagrams made to support some of the relocation ideas proposed. Want larger bleacher areas? where? Better routing? sketch out what you mean. No debris zones? how can that be laid out.

Hey, you're not designing a robot for a while, why not try your hand at "venue" design.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

This could include debris zone containers. If trash cans are overflowing, that provides an opportunity to think inside the box and how to keep it there. It also provides an opportunity to think about portability and effectiveness.

(I don't know about stadium venues but I know one of the first job positions to get cut in the educational systems - is janitorial services and supplies. They need support and help, not just complaints.)

Jane

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

It's kind of tricky--you'd want a 25'+ wide path. 5'+, marked, for people to walk in, with a good, solid 10'+ on either side, running on the most direct route possible. Anybody not in safety glasses needs to stay in the marked area; everybody wearing safety glasses can go wherever they need to.

Looking at the load-in diagram (I don't have a pit map), the run to Curie would run from the corner entrance area around Pit Admin. Ideally, Galileo and Curie pits in that area would be swapped, and the aisle right behind the first aid station would be widened to the minimum distance. Newton would run along the wall (15'+ wide--the wall prevents anything flying from the other side) where the robot route is now up to the end of the practice field, then go straight to the field from there. Where possible, all those paths would go along walls (lower space requirement due to the wall on one side).

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

If FTC expanding is what started the move of one FRC field then how about some FTC fields move to the pits for a year! ;)

I have a serious question about the initial plans for fitting items in the new arena before the concert was in the works. IF FTC was growing and needed more space, what about the far ends of the dome? Remembering back to Atlanta there was space on the ends for some smaller event to be held like FTC or FLL.

Maybe there are some things I am not considering as I am not involved with FTC, but when someone mentioned Bill saying that with FTC growing they had to move a field but that didn't make sense to me since I remember space leftover in ATL.

my $0.02

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

Hey, whatdya know -- the 2011 Championship Survey was just emailed to team contacts a few minutes ago.

With all of the robot cross-traffic of teams going to the Dome, I understand why it may be necessary to require safety glasses for pit fields. Yet they (possibly) could have arranged the pit fields so as to facilitate a safety zone where goggles weren't required. However, I'm sure there's some logistical/other tradeoff to doing so.

Great

• Food -- the boxed lunch was spectacularly better than either DC or VA. DC's was something next to 'god awful' and VCU's was a 'not bad', but Champ's was great. Bottled water, chips/cookies/sandwich left me hungry at 4pm rather than 2-3pm at the regionals.
• Pit field proximity to pit, and feeling like we had 'court-side seats' to some of the best matches FRC can offer spectators. If we could figure out how to increase the quantity of seating, I'd be all for pit fields next year.

Good

• For once, I didn't feel like the music was trying to rip a hole through my eardrums as we stood in queue or put the robot on the field.
• Wildstang broke 2 paradigms on my team last week (though they weren't my own POV's). They'll forever be on my 'rock stars' list becaue of it. 1.) You don't NEED high traction wheels to make it to Einstein. 2.) No, the driver coach doesn't need to micro-manage the drivers. We simply need to design the robot in such a way that gives the operators more opportunities to quickly recover from the inevitable failures (dropped tube, misalignment, etc). Thanks Raul!

Meh

• I didn't get a shirt this year, for the first time in 3 years. Honestly, I hope several others noticed their elevated prices and didn't purchase because of it.
  
• I think I stated enough about the bad in the 2011-Negative thread, but the only other thing I'd add on top of what others have stated regards the safety advisors. Safety is taken seriously most of the time, yet it's not administered evenly. That cute little WallE robot attracted crowds that would make a 20-30-foot circle, including 2 safety advisors at one point. I understand that it's very easy to lose focus at a championships; but really if they're going to be pedantic about us having too many people in front of our pit, they need to be pedantic about the other situations that happen as well.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

I can't chop up the Load-In PDF at the moment, but I'm thinking you land the two fields in the hall next to 9th street, possibly oozing out into the corner of the two halls. If you keep them the same orientation as now and slide them close together, you can economize on the extra space usually taken up around fields for equipment, storage, aisles, etc. Then pits and all the other miscellanies go in the hall occupied by Newton. Yes, you'd be back to the giant labyrinth of pits, but you have to admit that the packing efficiency is a good bit higher. Plus it keeps the FRC pits completely separate from the stands, which eliminates the need for debris-free lanes, etc. And puts the fields right next to FTC in case any of them are interested in checking things out.

Yes, you could swap this around and have the fields where Newton is, but then you've got a lot of robot traffic all headed in one direction, inevitably crossing the path to the fields for the public. Plus it'd be harder to balance pit vs. field locations to keep travel distances mostly equal.

If you're concerned this puts the fields too close together and could cause cross-talk problems, then you could separate the fields more and fill up the in-between space with scholarship row, the NI and Autodesk stages, etc, etc. More added benefit there in that the public could check out those venues without the safety glasses hassle.

Mind you, that Load-In map is a complete and utter lie. I sure don't recall those spots near the fields for "Spare Parts" and "TV Viewing". And the pit layout was a little different. And that map cleverly doesn't show all the space taken up on the Curie/Archimedes border by a wall o' robot crates not even stacked double high. If space was really at a premium and we really wanted to expand things to fit in bigger bleachers, I would think we could do something better with crates than just shoving them across the aisle. I'll admit it was personally convenient during loadout since our crate was right there, I'd have gladly traded that for more seats around Curie.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

You must have A) not looked inside your food.. or you would've seen the mold that I found on 10 sandwiches our team ordered... and B) have a much stronger stomach than those that got sick on my team! :) I'm glad someone enjoyed it! It certainly wasn't me :D lol

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

I just keep on thinking of more things to add. Sorry for always posting something new :/


Did anyone else feel like the arrows on the floor weren't accurate? I don't know which ones in particular, but I remember looking down a few times after I had gotten my bearings, saw "FTC/FRC to __location__" and thought "That's not right..." There were even a few that had one of the competition names blocked out in black Sharpie.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

Visit our web site http://waialuarobotics.com.
There will be a link to our Chairman's video shortly. All shot in HD, I think that it is excellent.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

Good

• The concert! I was originally sore about it kicking out 2 fields, but it was well worth it!

• The hotel we stayed at was beautiful with great views of the arch.

• The representatives at scholarship row helped me narrow down my top schools.

• Roboprom!!

• St. Louis was wonderful, they really did their best to welcome us.

Bad

• Crowd surfing...my team was on the floor for the concert, and I'm pretty small and weak, so when a crowd surfer came my way, he fell on me and it hurt!

• The food was disgusting and overpriced.

• The after party was not worth going to, there was virtually nothing to do.

Overall, I had a fantastic time and I'm sure that I can say the rest for my team. :D

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

Our team (1241) had an amazing time on the Curie field. I cannot believe that we did not get it done (the job)! However, it goes to show you that anything is possible: what a confidence booster! I want to say that this division was strong, well played and organised - kudos to all teams. Regarding the stands, I found myself wondering what we would do if our team brought more than the 12 students? Looking ahead to next year, I am sure that we would bring a bus load, but, where would they sit? I have always thought that saving seats was ok, especially if your team was aggressive enough to seek out the seats. BUT, at worlds, there is not enough seats. Where should all the people go? Back to the matches; why was the ref calling pushing the opponent into the lane a penalty against the pushing robot? Most times, they did not call a single robot in violation of this rule when they themselves crossed the line? Anyway, I can't wait for the day to play Einstein...
Back in 2004, we were picked by team 60 and 33. We had the catcher robot with a very good human player...who remembers??? Team Hot remembers from the Michigan regional...don't you. You capped us just as the balls were dropping - GREAT STRATEGY!
Worlds 2004 -Wow, getting knocked out in the quarters because of the stick-it note that said our arm was touching the doubler ball :(
Anyway, we have already had several team meetings so that we prepare for next year!

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

The Championship event was a great competition, but like most events, it had its highs and lows.

The Highs

Lots of great hotels pretty close to the venue. We qualified Week 6 and nice hotels downtown were still available.

Impressive facility. I can understand why St Louis was chosen; the Edward Jones dome and convention center are nice, HUGE facilities.

Upper Deck seating for Einstein. We were on the upper deck and you could see and hear things pretty well.

Friday Night Concert. I went as a parent chaperone, and it was great. I'm not really a huge BEP fan, but the concert had lots of energy and the kids loved it. It was a fantastic bonus for the RCA winners that got floor passes. Our kids had a great time. It would have been nice if the teams that had to play in the pits for 2 of the 3 days got floor passes.

Vending machines for drinks. This seems like a little thing, but if you ask me not to bring outside drinks I expect to be able to get a drink easily...and I could.

The Lows
One area to enter the complex was difficult. In Atlanta you could enter thru the Dome and thru multiple sides of the convention center. I don't understand why you could only enter from one area.

Lack of trash cans. This has been mentioned, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thought this was a problem. One day I carried trash to several overflowing trash cans before I finally just sat my trash down next to an overflowing can.

Three stalls. The 2 women's restrooms closest to the Newton field and pits had 3 stalls each. There was always a line...usually a long line. Why were some of the restrooms in the pits blocked off? Perhaps they were under construction, but we really could have used them.

Layout in the pits for robot traffic. When you entered the pit area, you were immediately crossing the robot lane to get to the dome. This was not safe. I am careful and pay attention so I didn't get clobbered, but I'd be surprised if no one else did. Maybe a crossing guard is needed.

Seating for the Pit Fields. The seating was terribly inadequate. If Championships continues to be run in this way, they will see a drop in attendance. I for one will not bring my family and will discourage extended family from coming. It was too difficult and uncomfortable to sit in the pit fields all day on Saturday. I would expect this to also effect large teams. You can't bring all your students and supporters if you don't have anywhere to put them.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

the fields and pit areas in the same place was cool. not a long walk and everything was nearby. the only thing about the championships is that saint louis is a dead town, not much at all to do or see.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

I currently live in St Louis and it is not a dead town. Here is a link to 52 things to do in St. Louis to start with. There are plenty of things to do/visit in town if you are willing to look.

http://www.archcityhomes.com/2010/05...s-attractions/

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

That is a great link. I found a lot to do also... unfortunately.. i couldn't find the time to do any of them.. LOL I had really hoped to get to the zoo, especially since it is free... BUT.. some robots kept me too busy to do anything else... :D

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

compare to new york city life, i think overall st louis is somewhat of a dead town with everything closing by 8-9pm. The closest subway near the dome closed by 5pm which is a bit strange considering subway here in the city closes around 11pm-12am. Making getting some food nearby around 7pm is a bit of a challenge

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

When you're comparing to a city that never sleeps, then yeah, you *might* have a point.

But you're comparing a city in the Midwest to a city that never sleeps, and you aren't looking anywhere near hard enough. Admittedly, I've heard that the Landing area near the arena is a place that maybe HS students don't want to go at night--even college students want to go in largish groups. But there are other places to go, within walking distance, that should be open. Like quite possibly the TGI Friday's over near the Capitol building would be open, some pizza places are quite probably open--and those are within walking distance.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

It was frustrating to walk past place after place that was closed at 9:30, and find that the places that were open (like TGI Fridays) had lines 1+ hours long.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

Yup I signed it on the left side of the back and used it too for a brief rest while touring the pits. It was great to see you guys there!

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

When I am busy busting my butt from 8 in the morning til 6 in the evening moving teams on and off the field the only thing I am interested in doing is going back to my hotel room and sleeping.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

This very well could have been the greatest championship event yet. This game was incredible in terms of excitement when watching the matches. Why was Einstein so boring? The lack of music hurt things a lot but the most disappointing thing is how every year the amount of info about each team and the amount of excitement before each match created by the MC has been scaled down. For those who don't know what I am talking about I suggest you watch this Einstein match from 06 and how exciting it was before the match even started.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2006cmp_sf2m1

That excitement just wasn't there this year and the whole process seemed to be rushed

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

They were rushing teams to the field to sit there for an hour while an endless parade of speakers verbally bludgeoned the audience into unconsciousness and they didn't get any wake up call from any sound effects to let them know they actually started the match. Like they didn't want to wake them up. How considerate of them.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

Unfortunately whoever at FIRST puts together the schedule for Einstein + awards thinks that it's important for a multitude of speakers to say the same thing over & over, which unfortunately doesn't leave enough time for Dave's captivating introductions. The lack of music was also a real downer; I'm pretty sure they didn't have any music because it would interfere with the filming that was going on during the matches.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

This has been a problem since 2007. The awards + finals format just doesn't work. It kills the excitement of the finals.

I would love to see something done to make the final match of the world championship at least as exciting as your average regional match.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

I can't ever recall a FIRST championship without matches wrapped around endless speeches.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

Wrap it around endless speeches, that is fine, but make sure that Einstein is exciting enough to inspire teams to work hard to strive to reach Einstein. Einstein is supposed to be the most exciting field in the world and it was the least exciting field this year and that is just not acceptable. Have the speeches, but also have the MC speak to his heart's content because that is part of what makes Einstein so special.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

As has already been pointed out, an unleashed Dave Verbrugge can and will pump the finals to a fever pitch.

Both at MSC and on Einstein this year, Dave was not completely free to work his magic. That's because both were being filmed for TV productions, to be seen later. I think in each case the eventual show would have been better with full-throttle Dave on the field.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

I've read and re-read all the threads here in CD and talked to a few people about the events leading up to the Championship event and the Championship event, itself.

We know it was the anniversary year.
We know from Kick Off that something was in the works with Will.I.Am and that Dean was going to make as much use of it as he could.
We had a brand new location/shift for the Championship event this year, along with some new regionals.

Lots of new. Lots of special (anniversary recognition). Lots of spotlight potential - also being used to full advantage.

We know that celebrities can burn white hot and then not so much. We also know that celebrities can have staying power - Morgan Freeman.

We know that FIRST pushed out of the comfort zone (whatever that is) and took all of us along for the ride.

We know that the ride is bringing in mixed reviews but they seem to be positive, overall.

We know that FIRST and CD are loaded to the gills with problems solvers and analysts.

Basically, we know that water seeks to find its own level and always does. Seasons come and go and with them, change. If we continue to remember and value the reasons that we joined and have remained in the program in the first place, we can continue to contribute in a positive way, offering constructive insight, wisdom, and knowledge to help the program continue to develop.

An area that I have seen woefully neglected in all of the current discussions is the area of sustainability. We can be made loud but will it be the noisy clash of a cymbal crashing or will it be the depth and breadth of a bell ringing loud and clear? That depends on our leadership and our leaders' leadership. In the end, the water will find its own level.

Jane

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

This is an issue that they should be able to address if they make the production companies filming do it in a "Live" style instead of "Taped for editing later". For lack of better terms.

There were huge delays at MSC because of the TV production. The idea of teams needing timeouts/backup robots was out the window because teams had quite a while between matches in the semis and finals.

In other sports, yes, they stop the action occasionally to take a "TV timeout" that lasts 3-4 minutes. This is no longer than the setup time between matches typically.

I think in the future if events are to be filmed they shouldn't hold up the show. Shoot what you need to shoot, get more cameras, whatever. But as you said Richard, it does detract from the "live show" aspect of the event greatly.

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

Agree completely. This was my second time participating on a team that made it to Einstein (the first being 296 in 2006) and it was a huge letdown compared to then. Back then, the Einstein teams got to parade in behind the Atlanta Drumline, and Dave got to do a grand entrance (and pull an epic prank). Then, starting in 2008, they nixed the parade and showed pre-recorded team intros on the big screen. This year, they didn't even do that.

Whatever happened to celebrating the 12 teams who make it to the pinnacle of the competition season?

Re: Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?
 

I posted a thread for the Bench here:http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=95286

It holds links to 105 close up pictures of all the signatures, including Dean Kamen's! And Woody Flowers, but I can't find his.