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-   -   Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95059)

Alex2614 05-05-2011 20:13

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
Here's an idea.

Einstein/FLL sitting ON the concert stage itself. FLL tables set up w/o Einstein field for Thursday and Friday, then the FLL tables are torn down before Friday night concert, and Einstein is put up on Saturday morning. This allows FLL to get a bigger spotlight, frees up room in the dome, and, let's be honest, watching Einstein and awards ceremony on a huge stage like that would be really freaking cool :)

This means that the awards stage and Einstein are not on that part of the dome floor anymore, resulting in more space for FRC fields.

Just my $0.02.......

bduddy 05-05-2011 20:33

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
Come on, now. Let's recognize the FTC thing for what it is: a hastily arranged excuse. Were they going to leave a large portion of the dome empty before they realized they were going to have a concert? There was more than enough room behind the curtain for two fields...

dez250 05-05-2011 20:35

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
The concert stage used last week was provided [by the BEP] and not a FIRST stage. The logistics behind placing students on it would not be feasible. Also the lighting for Einstein and the concert are two different set-ups which would not likely be able to be combined in a single rig. There is a lot more to it than just placing a field on a stage, plus I would hate to be the person who has a robot dropped on them while trying to quickly move it off the stage down a set of stairs.

GaryVoshol 05-05-2011 20:38

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
There would be plenty of room for everyone if FRC could only send the same percentage of teams to the Championship as FLL does. Oh, you don't want FRC Championships to have just 20 teams?

Every division deserves their time in the spotlight. If the fields wouldn't all fit because FTC has expanded, then the fair thing is to have some of the FTC games played outside the Dome as well as FRC.

robobandmom 05-05-2011 20:41

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
We were in the dome on Friday on the field closest to the BEP stage, and there was commotion all day on that stage...testing lighting, sound, foggers, ect. There is no way that stage could have been used on Friday. I'm not sure what happened on Saturday; was the stage still there Saturday AM?

Warlord 05-05-2011 20:46

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robobandmom (Post 1059497)
We were in the dome on Friday on the field closest to the BEP stage, and there was commotion all day on that stage...testing lighting, sound, foggers, ect. There is no way that stage could have been used on Friday.

Yeah, they were working on it literally all day. It would have to be set up and tested like a week in advance for everything to work out if you wanted to play matches on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robobandmom (Post 1059497)
I'm not sure what happened on Saturday; was the stage still there Saturday AM?

No, they spent basically all day Saturday tearing it down. They might have even started tearing it down Friday night. All I know for sure is that by the end of division eliminations almost everything was boxed up behind the curtains.

BrendanB 05-05-2011 21:26

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol (Post 1059494)

Every division deserves their time in the spotlight. If the fields wouldn't all fit because FTC has expanded, then the fair thing is to have some of the FTC games played outside the Dome as well as FRC.

Haha. On Thursday once we were inspected we rushed out to the dome to get in some practice and after our first match I had 4 quers around me telling me that they were only doing 2 matches per team no matter if it was fill in or scheduled to make things, "fair" for everyone.

Things were straigtened out in a few minutes but had that been the case then I would have lost it with only getting two practice matches to be fair to the teams who weren't inspected! :rolleyes:

Alex2614 05-05-2011 21:33

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dez250 (Post 1059490)
The concert stage used last week was provided [by the BEP] and not a FIRST stage. The logistics behind placing students on it would not be feasible. Also the lighting for Einstein and the concert are two different set-ups which would not likely be able to be combined in a single rig. There is a lot more to it than just placing a field on a stage, plus I would hate to be the person who has a robot dropped on them while trying to quickly move it off the stage down a set of stairs.

Is there any reason why they can't do it differently next year then? If they really want that concert, FIRST can something that integrates the stage and other elements that need to be in the dome (i.e. FTC or FLL fields, Einstein, Awards stage, etc.). If FIRST designed it, it could be used for both. If Will.I.Am is so supportive of FIRST, I think he can use a different stage. I mean, it can be the same dimensions and everything as the one used last week, but with easier integration with FIRST.

I don't know, maybe I'm sounding like a complete idiot (it's been known to happen with me, lol). I'm just throwing out random suggestions. It's just like kickoff day working on design and strategy - Stupid ideas are the best ones ;)

Craig Roys 05-05-2011 21:47

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
I find it interesting that this decision is made BEFORE they get a chance to read all (ANY) of the feedback forms from teams. I'm really starting to wonder if FIRST cares about the teams at all. It's a bit disheartening.

Karibou 05-05-2011 22:28

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex2614 (Post 1059508)
Is there any reason why they can't do it differently next year then? If they really want that concert, FIRST can something that integrates the stage and other elements that need to be in the dome (i.e. FTC or FLL fields, Einstein, Awards stage, etc.). If FIRST designed it, it could be used for both. If Will.I.Am is so supportive of FIRST, I think he can use a different stage. I mean, it can be the same dimensions and everything as the one used last week, but with easier integration with FIRST.

I don't know, maybe I'm sounding like a complete idiot (it's been known to happen with me, lol). I'm just throwing out random suggestions. It's just like kickoff day working on design and strategy - Stupid ideas are the best ones ;)

I think that it's a matter of money. Those stages are EXPENSIVE, and take a lot of time and work to design, fabricate, and test. If the concert was to become an annual event (which we probably won't find out until CMP time next year), there might be a little bit of worth in it, but the best option would still be to use the same set-up as this year. From a physical space standpoint, you could probably cram all five FRC fields into the dome without the presence of a BEP-sized concert stage. I imagine that one contributing reason to their decision to not do it is that queuing and traffic flow would be an absolute nightmare.

Assuming there's no concert next year, it would make sense to use the extra space for a CARD field.

Chris Fultz 05-05-2011 22:46

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
I am curious as to why everyone thinks the fields in the pit area were so bad?

I will say that more seating is needed, and there needs to be a way to not have the pit announcements - but these are issues that can easily be addressed.

I feel like I am in the minorty, but why I liked the pit fields -

It was great moving from pit to field in a minute or less.

There is an increased level of excitement from for the drive teams with the crowd so close and on both sides.

The Dome fields are more separated from the crowd (always have been, even in Atlanta) and the crowd is only on one side.

The pit crew could watch the matches.

The drive team could watch other matches and see different strategies in action.

For our dome matches, we spent a lot of time just waiting in the que and could not really watch the other matches being played.

Cory 05-05-2011 23:36

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetraman (Post 1059443)

FTC would fail if we kept them in the dark of the pits, and they would be better served to have all of their matches played on the big stage. FTC needs support from more FRC teams, as FTC is a "Budget FRC". We should be embracing FTC as on FRC's level and giving them the Championship experience as we have.

I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but if that's the case, FTC deserves to fail. VEX is beating the pants off of FTC and FIRST has no answer for that.

You can be damned sure that if VEX held their championships in the middle of a cornfield somewhere, it would thrive, as it has been without FIRST.

I don't see why we should support FTC, just because it is FIRST. Inbred thinking like that stifles innovation and progress. If FIRST is not held accountable for their failures or shortcomings, what motivation do they have to make things better? You'd think the massive success of VEX would make them rethink their approach to FTC, but that clearly hasn't happened.

All I have to say is FIRST is lucky there is absolutely no alternative to FRC, because if there was they might find teams jumping ship left and right.

Nick Bouressa 05-05-2011 23:39

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz (Post 1059536)
I am curious as to why everyone thinks the fields in the pit area were so bad?

For me anyway the thing about the pit fields that irked me was the lack of seating. They needed AT LEAST 50% more seats. Instead of watching the Curie elimination matches my team went up to Einstein, there was not enough room to fit our team in the bleachers. The queuing area was very congested, almost a safety hazard. And if people on the ground were standing during a match you couldn't see anything. The noise level in the pits was excessive and the amount traffic (robot and human) was dangerous. You also couldn't hear pit or field announcements.

Quote:

How about this: Every FRC division has a companion FTC division, playing right next to it. FRC spectators can watch FTC matches during field resets; FTC spectators can do the same thing. There *should* be enough space to pull that off with one field for each in the pits. This opens up FTC a bit; FLL could be substituted on one or two divisions if FTC is lacking in teams. Folks coming for the big robots see the smaller ones too.
That is the way to do it. Also to make room for CARD you could get rid of Einstein all together play the FRC finals on a division field and put FLL on the concert stage. You may have to work out some bugs with the stage compatibility, but it should make plenty of room and it could actually work.

Nemo 05-05-2011 23:44

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1059564)
I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but if that's the case, FTC deserves to fail. VEX is beating the pants off of FTC and FIRST has no answer for that.

You can be damned sure that if VEX held their championships in the middle of a cornfield somewhere, it would thrive, as it has been without FIRST.

I don't see why we should support FTC, just because it is FIRST. Inbred thinking like that stifles innovation and progress. If FIRST is not held accountable for their failures or shortcomings, what motivation do they have to make things better? You'd think the massive success of VEX would make them rethink their approach to FTC, but that clearly hasn't happened.

All I have to say is FIRST is lucky there is absolutely no alternative to FRC, because if there was they might find teams jumping ship left and right.

Incidentally, is there a good thread for that particular political discussion? I am interested in it.

StevenB 05-05-2011 23:49

Re: Bills Blog- Yes, I知 already counting down to kickoff 2012
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill's Blog
Robot inspectors inspected 352 robots and approximately 650 minibots for a total of over 1,000 robot inspections.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRC Game Manual
The ROBOT includes both the HOSTBOT and the MINIBOT (ROBOT = HOSTBOT + MINIBOT).

I think he meant to say, "Robot inspectors inspected 352 hostbots and approximately 650 minibots, for a total of 352 robot inspections." :) Did I read the game manual too many times?


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