Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

I wandered around the suite level before the matches on Einstein started; it looked like FIRST had done something in them at some point, but they all looked empty on Saturday afternoon.

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

This is probably to far west for most teams but the Anaheim Convention Center has a stadium attached that does not have a major sports team. It only seat 9,100 people but the only times this stadium is used is for NCAA basket ball early in the tournament. The great thing is that it is across from disneyland.

So maybe it is not ideal for championships but I thinking if California ever did a state championship, this would be a great place (and probably expensive).

There has to be a few more convention centers like this one around the country with an unused stadium attached. Perhaps a stadium affiliated more with college sports?

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

Perhaps FIRST should build its own venue (or 2 or 3).

Jane

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

Thats what FIRST could do. Build 3 arenas to the same spec to what it needs to fit CMP perfectly, put one on the East Coast, West Coast, and Midwest. And then have a rotating CMP. Like 2012 would be East > 2013 would be Midwest > 2014 would be West >2015 would be East > etc... And you would try to keep them in line. Like East = Virginia, Midwest = Kansas, and West = California.

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

I like the idea, but it looks EXPENSIVE. And, alas, price is the sticking point on just about anything...

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

Even so, it would be an awesome design challenge for minds that love to be challenged. It would also be a fun fundraiser challenge for those who love to be inspired by fundraising challenges. To add, it would be fun to incorporate the Going Green concept with respect to recycling, energy efficiency, and sustainability.

Jane

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

Perfect - let's give some travel love to New England teams and hold the Championships in Manchester, NH :D

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

NBA playoffs could be worked around if Championship was moved back to the same timeframe as it was in Atlanta. NHL playoffs cannot.

That would do what the rest of the year? Who's going to fund it? Who's going to give up land for it? Who's going to build the infrastructure around it that's needed to support it?

Arenas and convention centers are MASSIVE undertakings. And local governments don't approve them unless they can see them being beneficial to the local community and cost effective. The degres of this undertaking is truly something well beyond what FIRST has ever done.

They would need to find other tenants to share the venue with, design a venue that suits the needs of FIRST programs going forward but is still appealing for other uses, and find a location with the kind of infrastructure to support an FIRST Championship for a long, long time.

And then you ask them to do it in two or three different locations?

It sure is a nifty idea, but it's one that's completely beyond the scope of possibility for this program at this point in time.

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

Agreed. If the Minnesota Vikings, who offered to put down $300 million dollars to pay for a stadium, which would result in millions of dollars of revenue for the city and state (unlike a FIRST stadium), can't get enough tax payer support, there is no way FIRST will be able to get funding for a stadium, let along 2 or 3.

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

Think of it this way, Sean. It's a dream. An idea for big dreamers. 20 years ago, did the original teams envision that in 20 years we would be talking about a space crunch for the Championship event? Were they able to envision a dome venue maxed out with fields demands and the space demands required for a big name band?

Even as a dream, isn't it fun to think of a place that would be established by the FIRST program but that others would love to use because of its adaptability, technical prowess and innovation, and awesome capabilities? Yes, that is a lot of fun.

It may be frustrating for those who want to problem-solve with a points system and removing 3rd alliance partners or the RAS qualification. I understand and respect that type of thinking but when faced with large problems, I always see it as an opportunity to dream big. Really big. There is never any harm in dreaming. Heck, I never dreamed I'd be involved in FIRST for as long as I have, much less watching it expand as it has in recent years.

I apologize to our OP for derailing this thread. Please go back to realistic problem-solving and solutions.

Jane

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

That's something the Boy Scouts do for their National Jamboree every 4 years. Previous to 2013, the BSA had the Jamboree at various places within the nation, most recently Fort A.P. Hill in Virginia. In 2013 they are moving to their newest camp "Summit" in West Virginia.
BSA found that it would be simpler to own their own land for such a large event, enabling them to make the Jamboree even better than it already is. There is no reason why FIRST couldn't benefit from the same thing.


It may not be a feasible thing for FIRST to do at this point, but as the program grows, it would make more and more sense to build a FIRST dome for CMP and other robotics events (such as regionals, non FRC events, Vex events, etc...).

Another thing to look at is teaming up with a company/city who is building a dome/convention center to make a perfect FIRST location!

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

You are indeed correct about the Wings chances of missing the playoffs. They have the longest streak amongst porfessional sports for playoff appearences ever (I think, don't quote me on it). However, I was refering to the fact that the Wings have been lobbying for a new/renovated arena for a year or two now. Admittedly Joe Louis Arena isn't the nicest venue in the world. There is a remote possiblility that they could move their home venue from the Joe to The Palace of Auburn Hills if they get no tangible feedback from the city of Detroit.

As for the comments by seveal people that Michigan is the exact opposite of the ideal place to hold WCs. I would like to ask if you are satisfied with a situation where each state has roughly 1 FRC team for every 58,000 citizens. Does FRC only have the chance to grow to up to 5,250 US teams?That sounds like a large number, yet consider the number of secondary schools in the US. There are approximately 37,000 public and private high schhols in America, most of them completely capable of supporting an FRC team. The largest roadblock however is money. Due to the district structure and the concentration of FRC teams within the state of Michigan, Michigan is the closest of any region to becoming the ideal region. If one model region is fostered and grown others will follow. By bringing the FIRST Championships to Michigan I argue that an unprecidented amount of growth would occur across the US and Canada (due to its proximity).

My reasoning being that so many teams exist in Michigan, and Michigan teams are amongst the best teams a starting "mentored" FRC teams (see 3538, 3773, and 3539 as examples) that giving them a resource as great as the FIRST Championship would ony accelerate growth in the Michigan market. The next reason FIRST stands the greated benifit by holding champinships in Michigan is the potential for sponsorship revenue. As a group Michigan is a quite well funded region, however with increased growth comes a need for increased revenue. By placing the CMPs directly into the backyard of many large local corporations, Michigan would recieve the sponsorships necessary to gain more teams.

Under my belief that the US can support as many teams as there are high schools there is room for 1,200 teams in Michigan so long as sufficient funds are available. The reason other regions would benifit from Michigan's growth is this. Government reacts slowly to things, yet it will eventually respond. If Michigan is able to have a total number of teams approximately equal to 350 within several years of gaining the CMP, it could possibly kickstart widescale recognition of FRC by local districts and state legislatures. Eventually school districts will realize it is more worthwhille giving their robotics team 15K than drowning 90k in the heating costs for a high school swimming pool (Monroe Public Schools spends $92,000 a year on swimming pool upkeep, with virtually no revenue sources or educational value in it).

The more teams there are the more visible FIRST is. The more visible FIRST is the more attention it gets. The faster a single region gains visibility the faster other regional gain revenue from the increased visibility of the other region. The faster other regions become visible the quicker these regions gain teams.

Sorry for that extremely long thought, and the typos; I had to do this using IE.

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

I live in Greensboro, and have attended many events at our coliseum. I'd worry about trying to host the Championship there. In addition to only having city buses, the coliseum and special events center is much smaller than the Atlanta and St. Louis Centers. I think there are only about 180,000 square feet in the special events center. Furthermore, I don't think there is a straight path from the convention center to the arena; a loading dock separates the two. Maybe Greensboro could be good for a regional championship. However, a natatorium with three pools is being built. If we see anything here, I guarantee you: Water Game!

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

Yes, but the Summit high adventure reservation will most likely be used by the BSA year-round, bringing in $$$. Additionally, they got a huge, very generous donation that payed for a huge portion of the initial cost.

Now if FIRST were to be given a gargantuan sum of money, that would at least be a step in the right direction.

Re: Einstein seating: possible solution
 

Did anyone mention Phillips Arena back there in Atlanta? Seats 18-20k
Wouldn't it be funny to go back to ATL only to use the Arena next to the Georgia Dome? :D
Of course with the Hawks and the Thrashers calling it home, I am sure it wouldn't work.