Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

That's somewhat of an easier problem to solve:

Make sure there's a team policy that team computers are ONLY for TEAM use, or for use on TEAM stuff (CAD, programming, marketing, that sort of thing). (Schoolwork use, too.) Games don't count as a team activity unless expressly given permission.

That will keep the computers clear, or allow non-essential uses to be stopped any time something essential needs doing; it may get the non-robotics students out of the area; it may also deal with any "slackers" on the team.

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

We have a strict "no gaming" policy during work hours. We enforce it reasonably well - not perfect, but we call it out when we see it (and we do look for it).

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

get the entire room on one Ethernet connection, then if they are gaming or not being productive, pull the plug. this usually clears out the room within a few min.

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

we only give out wifi to those who absolutely need it, all others have to use an ethernet connection or a team computer. we find this keeps unproductive things at bay without sacrificing productivity

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

To be totally honest, we were a hardcore team that spent any spare time we had holed up with a laptop or the robot. We made it as far as we could considering the resources we had, it's unfortunate we didn't have more time. And, for a small team that basically taught oursevles robotics with no sponsors and a mentor who was learning with us, we did a hella good job.

We allowed it seeing as how the programmers would sit bored for hourrrrrs while the engineers fixed something. Then when the programming came, 2 second fix and they went back to magic or minecraft.

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

That means that you weren't giving the programmers enough to do. Have them develop the skeleton of yet another automode if you have to--but if you're allowing gaming, and non-team members are taking advantage of that (as well as team members), then you may need to impose it--and find something else for the programmers to do while they wait.

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

There are times when our programmers do have free time (which I don't see why there would be, unless they can do their work in less than 6 weeks). During this "Free time", they play some games until they're needed. Our programmers are for the most part responsible, and in the end get their work done. One of the major problems here is while they're responsible and do their work, the games distract everyone else, making the team unproductive.

So while your programmers somehow have hourrrrrs of free time, I can tell you from experience that sometimes it's best to cut the games for the team's sake, and for the sake of productivity. Anyways, they're programmers for robot's sake! Tell them to go outside for once!

Bro tip: Tell them outside has really good graphics!

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

Your next major purchases need to be a kitbot and a cRIO. (Even better if you've got spare cRIO-based robots lying around.) That will give the programmers something interesting to play with, which also happens to benefit the team. Induce them to go wild with the spare robot, and build their skills that way.

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

You seem to be underestimating the job of the programmers.

For the past few years our programmers have had all the code written, waiting to be tested before the robot is completed. This was the case my senior year. I needed to test my code, and one of our lead builders kept telling me it would be done in 1 hour. Well that hour turned into about 10, so I ended up sitting there waiting.

You can also say play with a spare CRIO, but there is only so much that can be done on something that isnt the actual robot.

Programming is unlike building, because sometimes something wont work, and all it takes is to add a ; as opposed to building a new part for the robot. At the same time, something that should be an easy fix can take hours because you miss that ; or added an extra one.

As a programmer it is very possible to have free time, yet I still probably would not have been playing games. Have them research what other teams are doing, or talk about game strategy. If they know that they have nothing to work on that day, just tell them not to show up.

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

Having read the last several posts about programmers, I find that programmers can have multiple roles for the team, or do things related to FIRST that isn't exclusive to programming, like strategy, scouting or programming software like scouting apps (or try to get Sundial working for your team)

Also, having mechanical knowledge of the robot can help because it can be of use when you are deciding how to place the electronics or sensors on the robot.

Despite the glut of leisure programmers may get, it's still very easy to get off-task.

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

On the topic of programmers and somewhat continuing on from my last post, I was sort of a programmer this past year for my team, but since there was little for the team to do until the robot was built, I spent most of my time building. As a side note, I did a little bit of everything this past year, since we started the season with 10 people and ended with 20 people who didn't know what to do. That being said, I think that like mentioned before, the programmers should have more responsibility. I don't mean that they don't have enough work to do, but I'm just saying that they can only program so much without a robot, so they might as well aid in the building process so they can finish the robot quicker and in turn be able to work on their code more.

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

To be totally honest they had the code already ready to run before we even got into the build session. I'm talking FTC so hang with me :P But we had the same issues with one hour becoming ten and them waiting is not a good thing. To be totally honest as well, these were the kids who couldn't advance any further programming wise in a high school setting, as the three we had already were making their own games and using programming to do whatever they wanted/needed. I mean these guys finished AP classes worth of programming in 3/4 the time required to do it( since ap programming is self paced at our school) so the games were there to keep them occupied. Nowm that didn't distract the rest of us, because the rest of us were worried about the next bloody finger (yeah guilty) and getting our building part done on time.

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

Sorry for the double post but I just saw this and had to quote reply it.

You can only fit so many hands on an area 18x18x18 before there's no more room for hands, or they touch something that cuts them (ie sharp sheet metal underneath that we hadn't gotten around to filing yet).

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

There are many hands-off ways to help a team. Programming is of course one of them. Drafting being another(my focus as a student). The two have similar traits in their function within the team. There are times that something needs modeled immediately and then days when nothing seems to need done. That said, I never sat around and waited. I actively saw what the other people were doing(from a safe distance) and helped keep things on track. I worked to help keep communication going between the different parts of the team. I discussed what the electronics people needed by when and pressed the machining team to meet those deadlines. If there were good reasons for the machining team taking so long, I could explain them to the electronics. This is just one example of how a person can contribute to the construction of a robot without ever getting in the way. Another way is to work on the non-engineering side of things. Someone has to plan the trip to the competitions. Someone has to design the team shirts. Someone has to manage the budget. Someone has to fill out the forms for various awards. Someone has to do alot of things. Why not them? There really is no need for a student to ever be sitting around playing games while they are "on the clock". Not only does it limit their contribution to the team, it also suggests that this might be acceptable in industy. Randall Munroe(xkcd writer) has made many jokes about what happens when the code is compiling. Lets not perpetuate this mentality by making excuses for it. Programmers are smart people capable of many things more then just programming. Encourage them to branch and try different things. They will gain alot more then a high score in solitaire.

Jason

Re: Building just isn't a priority anymore
 

Reading the initial post and reason for this thread, I think you have a few great problems. Meaning - yes, there are problems but they can be worked through and problem-solved. That process of problem-solving will strengthen the team in a lot of areas such as team organization, communication, time management, and expectations regarding members' behavior and attitudes.

I may have overlooked it but I'm not seeing anything about the mentors of the team. I'm also not seeing anything about consequences, expectations, or rules in place - established before recruitment and build and enforced during build and competition.

It's good to have so many people that are creative and energetic. The trick is to channel that into positive impact on the team and the community. One thought that I have is about members who have no idea of how the team is organized or run and what the rules and expectations are. An example that I can give is a couple of soccer players that joined the team. Early in the build, they came in with their soccer balls and were kicking them and headbutting them around the metal shop where the robot was being worked on. It created mayhem and could have damaged the robot. Very quickly, the balls were put in time-out and the new members were taught that the those types of games were not allowed in the shop. Period. Same with the lacrosse equipment that followed and the pool noodles that appeared for the purpose of bumpers not bopping.

Each year is different but if you have a consistent approach to how the team is run and the members know the rules and expectations up front, it is very helpful when situations begin to get out of hand. And, the mentors are key to making sure that does not happen by enforcing the rules and keeping the expectations present and current during the process.

Jane