Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

The minibots should, in the spirit of FIRST, be worth the same number of points.
This year is the first game (that I'm familiar with) where you can completely achieve the end game task to the best of your abilities and LOSE at it. What happened to "there are no losers in FIRST'', GDC.
I was hoping to see some interestingly engineered minibots that climb up the pole in a unique and INNOVATIVE way. When it's a race, everybody does the same thing, drag cars.
I wanted to see some of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuFla...eature=related
or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSI7F...eature=related
But we just got hundreds and hundreds of little drag cars.

I was just pretty disappointed by how the minibots turned out. They were weighted too heavily and took away from the rest of the game.

You shouldn't be able to lose the finale in my opinion.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

I also agree that the minibots are to heavily weighted, but I do think there should be a reward for finishing first, I mean it was designed to be a race. I think the idea of first and second being 20 and third and fourth being 15 is a good solution, because if one alliance scores first and second, then there is only a ten point difference, as opposed to a 25 point difference. Ten points is easily made up on the rack, where as 25 is not.

Also, as a ref, I agree with allowing more accidental lane incursions. I do not think teams should be able to grab tubes out of their opponents lanes, but I think as long as they:
a) don't take a tube (bumping it is ok as long as it stays in the lane)
b) don't interfere with the opponent robot in any way
they should not be penalized. This would drastically cut down on penalties, as quite seriously 75% of penalties I called were on actions that wouldn't be penalized under these two stipulations.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

I would be in favor of reducing the minibot race scores to 20,15,10,5. I really dislike vast differences in scoring to occur in the last ten seconds.
Oh, and remove the rule about pushing an opposition robot into the end zone under the pretense you are trying to score forcing the opposing robot to incur a DQ.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

I am in favor of all of these changes, in general (especially #3 - TICKY TACK PENALTIES SUCK!).

Instead of all minibots worth 20 points, what about making the first three minibots worth 20 points with the fourth 10 points (or some similar points structure; this relaxes the race somewhat while still giving teams an incentive to have a fast minibot).

Also, making low logos worth the same as the middle would be a very welcome change for the depth of the field at IRI.

The one that makes me a bit squeemish is scoring ubertubes in teleop. How about giving each alliance a fourth ubertube that can be scored during autonomous, instead (half this field has at least attempted a 2-tube auto)?

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

Seconded


If you do that, you need to make that rule now to allow teams to actually do something with it. The question would then come up "where does the tube get placed?" I would say anywhere on your side of the field (even in the scoring zone) to make things interesting.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

I like the idea of changing the minibot scores. I think that scores for the minibot should be based on time remaining on the clock. Lower time = better score:

10 seconds to 7.5 seconds on the clock = 5 points
7.4 seconds to 5 seconds on the clock = 10 points
4.9 seconds to 2.5 seconds on the clock = 15 points
2.4 seconds to .09 seconds on the clock = 20 points

This would force teams who want maximum points to wait, and those who just want points to choose how many they get. Both alliances could get a minibot in the 15 point range, if they wanted to. I also like the idea of opening up the poles to any team, but there should be rules.

Ex. Teams can only occupy the opposing alliance's pole if a robot from that alliance is not at the pole at the 15 seconds mark, or if no minibot has been deployed there after 5 seconds.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

Yep, that sounds good to me. I want to see three (legal) ubertubes on the same high logo!

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

In thinking about this several months ago, the single rule change that I came up with to balance the game better was to replace the doubling effect of the logos with a straight 15 point bonus per logo. This would have the following effects:

1. Keeps the score for the top row approximately the same and preserves motivation to score autonomous high.
2. Provides incentive to complete logos on middle and bottom rack
3. Being two complete logos ahead offsets a 1-2 (50) vs. 3-4 (25) minibot result.

Rack scoring (with/without autonomous)

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

I'd like to see G23 go away while keeping G24. If you bump my tower and nobody from my alliance is around to use it that it should not result in a DQ. G24 provides adequate protection and G23 is just silly.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

Even if we do not allow hanging ubertubes in normal gameplay could we please get rid of the penalty for not releasing the tube in auto and not pulling it off the peg fast enough/ leaving it on. It still wouldn't count, but (IMHO) there should be no penalty for trying and failing at the auto objective.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

I personally don't think the problem with the game is in the minibot race and the points value associated with it. I agree with others viewpoints that the diminishing returns on the tube scoring is the biggest flaw of the game. Addressing this directly will be the best way of improving the game in my opinion.

-Brando

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

What I would like is if the tube is surrounding the peg at the end of autonomous, it counts - even if it's still being held by the robot.

That way, you can't score them in teleop mode, but it gets rid of the penalty and the need to pull the tube off at the end of auton.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

The minibot race needs to stay a race!

Combine Al's idea of reduced point values and Jim's point to keep the game going to the end if all 4 minibots reach the top would effectively reduce the value of the minibots, but still keep the end-game excitement (if not adding to it with last-second tube scoring).

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

It would also be really cool, for strategy reasons, to keep it at 20 points per minibot, but the towers did not have an assigned alliance to them. The possibility of creating a large swing by having all three minibots from the same alliance could be something cool to watch with the risks involved.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

I like adding more autonomous tubes. I say give teams as many ubertubes as they want. 3 teams on one alliance can score 2 tubes each, let them have 6 tubes.

What might be interesting is differentiating between autonomous tubes by color. Make it so you can score ubertubes after autonomous, but you can only score ubertubes that the opposing alliance started with in autonomous. So red could request to start with 6 ubertubes, but if they don't score them, it's to their disadvantage because blue can then bring them over to their own pegs in tele-op.