Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

How about, release an ubertube to an alliance that has triggered its two poles, and end the match 5 seconds after all 4 poles have been triggered? Will make for an interesting "last second shot"

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

To really mess with things, flip the rack rows around:

Top row = 2 points
Middle row = 1 points
Bottom row = 3 points

I doubt any of the IRI teams have machines that are 'optimized' for the bottom row quite like they're optimized for the top row. Making the middle row worth 1 points removes the disadvantage that long-arm robots have due to variable-distance placements.

Or, if everyone's up for a 'challenge' -- randomize the point values of each row, each match (with top row always worth 2 or 3). Make up some goofy (or attractive) visual cues to indicate point values so the drivers understand it.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

This is a good idea. It certainly would add a dramatic effect to the very last few seconds of the game. Maybe have 20, 15, 10, and 5 points in reverse of the current scoring.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

Another vote for more uber tubes. I think If a team is able to reliably pull off a 3 tube autonomous, they should actually be rewarded in the game.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

It would be interesting at the beginning of a season before teams invested time in a design. Chaning this now would totally alter the dynamic of the endgame, and people would need to re-design minibots to go slower. You want teams to feel like they are playing Logomotion, not rebuilding subsystems for a variation. The ideal minibot in Logomotion is a fast one. The ideal minibot for last would be one that deploys right before the buzzer and takes about ~10 seconds to go up. I think that is too much to ask people to re-engineer a minibot.

Changing the rules is fine, but rule changes should be made such that teams can take their robot and compete at the highest level without having to change anything.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

How about letting the vertical and diagonal logos count for double but keeping the same point values per row?

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

That's an interesting twist; it makes the game much like 2007's. It'd also make the very center pole of each rack insanely valuable.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

I'm looking into similar rules changes for a Houston invitational, so here's proposals from a mostly uninterested party:

First, I think y'all need to decide if you want to emphasize minibots or tubing, or make them about equal.

If it's tubing you want, you really need to make it very possible for the minibot race to come out even, or jiggle the rack scores to reduce the diminishing returns effect. It's fine to say a 10 point minibot deficit is beatable, but those 10 points are nearly two entire low logos at the current rate.

Towards that end, I really like Dmentor's fixed bonus for a logo, if not necessarily his particular value. Then you could get your excitement from a last second tube hang as well. I don't see how ubertubes fit well into his system, so perhaps instead of a fixed bonus, all tubes are worth 3 points for logo bonus purposes, subject to uber doubling.

Another option for the minibot race: Fixed minibot scores, still with the colored towers, but points for each minibot that hits the top. Thus, fast minibots are still a benefit because you can send up a second one on the same tower after the first one lands. Details would be that a team's minibot can only score once, and the minibot must physically touch the target. Running into the first minibot doesn't count. This might require a slight adjustment in match timing to make the 3 minibot scenario more achievable.

Also, I really like scoring ubers in teleop, and the bonus uber for 3 scored in auto.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

Especially if you hang an ubertube on it too!

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

I intentionally kept all ubertube rules the same (ie. autonomous bonus and doubling the value of the tube hung over it) so that the only impact associated with my proposed change was to remove the additional logo doubling. Effectively this would decrease an ubertube's bonus from 4x to 3x (which incidentally I see as a positive for balancing overall game scores -- reference Paul Copioli's excellent commentary from the Michigan State Championship ABC special). With the fixed logo bonus that I suggested (which mathematically is tied to the 3s from the tubes and 5s in the minibot race), it would be possible to recover from an ubertube deficit or a minibot deficit through excellence on the rack making things more balanced.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

1. I think that minibots should still be a race, so rather then making them all equal they should be as follows:

1st = 20 Points
2nd = 18 Points
3rd = 16 Points
4th = 14 Points

This would encourage teams to finish a logo on the bottom yet still take 4th in the minibot race.

2. I like the idea of being able to score ubertubes that did not get scored during autonomous. Also the idea of giving an extra ubertube to each Feeder Station.

3. Lane violation should be reduced, however if you try to get a tube from the opponents lane it should still be a penalty.

4. Dunno if it will be needed and could cause to many delays.

-Clinton-

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

If the intent is for this game to still feel and play like Logomotion, but with more parity between the rack and the towers, there really can't be major changes.

Realistically you probably can:

Change point spread between minibot finishes
Make all minibots worth the same amount
Allow for ubertubes to be scored in teleop.
Make the bottom and/or middle rows worth more points
Remove doubling and give a bonus per logo, as suggested

Beyond that if you try to do something like fundamentally alter the minibot so that the last place minibot gets the most points (unless post-buzzer climbs aren't allowed), or allow more than one minibot to score on a tower, or determine that all towers can be scored on by any team, you completely change the way you play the end game. Likewise if you start to introduce a vertical component to rack scoring, or make other drastic changes you totally change the way the game is played.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

The only rule i would like to see is... IRI must be webcast and that talent show thing would be nice too:D .

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

This is an outstanding thread. Please keep the ideas coming!!

Every year at IRI, we tweak the rules a bit. What sgreco and Cory are saying are exactly correct. We don't want to change the rules or point values enough so that robots need to be redesigned or changed significantly, or even play Logo Motion in a dramatically different way. We just want to sway things one way or another. There are many wonderful ideas in this thread that will help us do so, and nothing is decided in stone yet.

Chris Fultz has informed me that we need to nail this down and finalize the rule changes by June 15th.

Sincerely,
Andy B.

Re: IRI (CONTEMPLATED) Rule Changes
 

The proposal of 20 points for any minibot that successfully climbs is a great one......in that teams wont have to give up their entire summer to building a faster minibot.:ahh:

I still like the ubertube counting ONLY during the auto period.
It made teams work hard in ensuring that it worked.
At CMP, the fun part was trying to decide who would do what.
The best match I could recall was our match with 1114 and 1056 from HI. We spent at least 10 minutes talking about how we were going to get all 3 up. As everyone knows, the lanes can cause teams to hit each other prior to putting it up, and 1114 can do 2 tubes.
In the end, it was great to see that our alliance all decided to do it, and 1114 put the Y lane one first and quick, then moved out of the way for us.

If you can score it after auto, all that strategy and talk prior to the match goes out the window, and less gratifying.