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-   -   Why Losers Lose? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95361)

JaneYoung 30-05-2011 13:51

Re: Why Losers Lose?
 
I'd like to thank everyone who posted in this thread. Your perspectives have added insight and food for thought.

One area that I've been mulling over is the lack of check points along the way. There are check points for the build and there are plenty of discussions about teams falling behind schedule, waiting on parts, or procrastinating. I haven't really read many discussions in CD about check points for morale. If a team feels defeated or confused before the build starts or during the build, the team won't move into the competition season with much of a boost. There can be various reasons for feelings of defeat, even before the season starts. Maybe a team isn't going to the Championship Event and decides that it is pointless to give 150% each and every day. Maybe a team doesn't understand the process of designing the robot to be able to adjust to the continual development of game play. Maybe the team doesn't have a system in place to address the constant day-to-day frustrations and road blocks, helping it to overcome and problem-solve through those frustrations. Maybe a team's mentors try to take on too much and don't delegate properly. Maybe a team's student leads try to take on too much and don't delegate properly. I can see all sorts of reasons for feeling defeated and confused before, during, and after build.

In the teams that consistently achieve success in whatever form that takes, there is a recognition and implementation of strong leadership. In my opinion, that doesn't mean a strong leader who does everything and controls everything. It means a strong leadership within the team using tools such as wisdom, experience, flexibility, and foresight to help bolster self-confidence and ease the sense of failure and/or desire to give up. Teenagers remind me of vessels that love to be filled. One way or the other, they will be filled and it is up to the mentors to help them gain a sense of responsibility, accountability, and ownership regarding the team and the team's goals. That fills the vessels plenty. At the same time, the mentors are also vessels and we, too, must take that responsibility. Making this a consistent part of the team philosophy and approach to competing will give the team an edge in the shop and on the field. The trick is in making it consistent.

That's where I am in my thinking right now. I can't wait to see where my thinking is next year. It changes, develops, and grows every season.

Again, thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread.
Jane

bam-bam 30-05-2011 14:19

Re: Why Losers Lose?
 
Students students students (and et cetera...)

Students are the people that make the team (heck it's the whole point of FIRST). Mentors and coaches are there to help guide the team and to show the students what enthusiasm, dedication, and passion is.

If you have a divided team (upperclassmen vs. lowerclassmen) you are not going to do very well. During the time at Boilermaker regional, our lowerclassmen had been visiting the campus- and I do mean the whole time. I can understand why- they feel that they weren't able to do anything contributing while the upperclassmen did all the work. One of our freshman was very angry and upset that the team had made a makeshift minibot deployment that he had suggested waaay back then in week 3 of building season. Many times the lowerclassmen had suggested ideas, but at some point they started feeling ignored and insignificant.

Student involvement has always been a problem for our team. We come from a school that is 2500~ish strong- yet we are able to hold on to about 5 new students for a year-round involvement, an some of these students are barely holding on to robotics. They enjoy the activity a lot, but their dedication is a bit lower than the team expects. This frustrates some of our other team members a bit because we know there are great students in the school that we could use, but they're just dispersed. Just out there, and half of them haven't heard about robotics. The team is working the recruitment now, point made short- students that dedicate to the team will always win. Teams with lackluster students won't get very far.

Rick TYler 30-05-2011 19:26

Re: Why Losers Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bam-bam (Post 1064192)
(...)During the time at Boilermaker regional, our lowerclassmen had been visiting the campus- and I do mean the whole time. I can understand why- they feel that they weren't able to do anything contributing while the upperclassmen did all the work. (...) lowerclassmen had suggested ideas, but at some point they started feeling ignored and insignificant.

Student involvement has always been a problem for our team. (...)

I've heard this dozens of times over the last seven years -- there simply isn't enough STEM stuff to be done on a single robot to engage 20-30 students or more, so teams have to come up with non-STEM busywork such as PR, marketing or doing presentations. Organizations that find real robot-creation tasks for all their members don't have trouble engaging students. Our own club has had 50+ members for the last three years, but all of our students get to design, build, program, test and operate robots. No one has to be a cheerleader or "PR person." If you want to run a STEM-focused program, make sure everyone has a chance to engage in STEM activities.

As for the topic of the thread, I've found this really interesting, although a lot of the factors listed strike me as dependent variables, not independent. Like any business, the key to losing seems to be to have a poor plan or to fail in execution, or both.

Tom Ore 30-05-2011 21:38

Re: Why Losers Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick TYler (Post 1064215)
the key to losing seems to be to have a poor plan or to fail in execution, or both.

What's that old saying? Nobody plans to fail, they fail to plan.

cursohistoria 31-05-2011 13:52

Re: Why Losers Lose?
 
The loser does not lose because he finally wins an experience that ultimately will serve as another option, he loses who do not try it

kaliken 31-05-2011 15:08

Re: Why Losers Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Ore (Post 1064245)
What's that old saying? Nobody plans to fail, they fail to plan.

One of the biggest things is this. I know that on my team the mentor(and student) leadership spend a lot of time(at least I did) planning what the team schedule and build season will look like. I continued this process every day of the build until we finished Champs and lessons learned (lot of scrapped plans!) . Currently, we are in the middle of planning an improved training program based upon student feedback this year. (implementing lessons learned!)

But the biggest thing is continual planning.

The program will NOT go to plan. But its how you continue to plan is what separates you from the team that struggles. One of my favorite quotes is from Eisenhower:
"Plans are nothing; planning is everything"

Tom Ore 31-05-2011 15:31

Re: Why Losers Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kaliken (Post 1064310)
But its how you continue to plan is what separates you from the team that struggles.

Agreed. Look us up at USFIRST.ORG. We had no measurable success at all for our first 7 years. It has been only the last four that we've found a way to have some measureable success as defined by awards and regional wins.

I'll qualify the "measurable" above. While we didn't win awards or regionals we still inspired a lot of students along the way. We have all of our old robots dating back to 2003 and when a former student comes by for a visit the first thing they do is go and look for their old robot. I'm not sure "measureable" success has increased the percent of students going to engineering or other technical fields - they seem to have been inspired anyway.

FRC4ME 01-06-2011 22:48

Re: Why Losers Lose?
 
Trying to build the coolest 'bot at the regional when you aren't yet good at the basics. You have to finish before you can win, would be the saying.


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