Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

Isn't this a little like the play in football where one player lands a cheap shot on another and the second retaliates? The ref sees the second and calls the penalty on him.

My question is, what did the FTA say/do to provoke the comment? You can't tell me that the person that was doing the yelling was yelling just to yell. Obviously he/she disagreed with whatever was being told to them. Was their reaction appropriate? Maybe/maybe not. Did they go back after cooling down and apologize for their behavior? We don't know. The bottom line is we just don't know without knowing the full situation.

People are people and can get fired up in the heat of the moment. Sometimes they take it too far. This is life. Anybody that comes here and claims to have never said something that was inappropriate or that they regretted later is just flat out lying.

Just to lighten the mood a bit....what if that person's grandmother swore like a trucker and that them standing up for themselves made her proud....would that fall into the GP category? :rolleyes:

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

I cannot imagine how adding profanity to an environment can make it more inviting to anyone I would want to invite. If this is just a failure of imagination on my part, I am quite content to leave it at that.

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

I found that in high stress situations such as interviewing, when the interviewer swore, it helped me to relax making the interview less intimidating. Based on many of the presentations I've seen I find that swearing can help to relax unnecessary tension. I don't believe any interview or presentation should really be stressful. We should have fun with life and take it less seriously. The occasional curse helps to lighten the mood and minimize the pretentious nature of a many stressful activities.

But here we get into an ethical debate, and I guess I look at certain topics more liberally than others. As I always say with politics, there is always a right answer for both sides, so no matter how you answer, you are always right... but you are also always wrong. It comes down to personal opinion in most cases.

I love it when my mom apprehensively swears because she thinks it is critical to delivery. Hearing someone swear who almost never does creates an interesting emphasis on what they are saying.

I'm assuming you are one of the many people who never hire Gary Vay to speak because of his language. He admits that this has happened plenty of times, but that his language is part of his delivery, and helps him to give a good presentation. I think if someone else were to give his talks they would be somewhat monotonous. Now that is not only because of swearing, but it his case it helps to lighten the mood and make him more inviting and exciting.

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

Very good point here! Over the season I was told some pretty weird stuff by some FTA/field people that didn't make sense. One time our robot wouldn't connect and I asked him if we wanted us to power cycle. He said, "no, that won't fix anything". After a few minutes he walked off field and I reached in an power cycled and a few seconds after the RSL light was flashing we were connected.

Another time this season our programmer/HP was on the field and one of the FTA's or assistants was trying to check why we weren't connected and he had to explain how the system worked to her. Somewhat scary to be honest!

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

If someone swears at me, or at something near me, my reaction is hardly going to be one of decreased stress! I'm obviously not understanding you at all.

With this I agree wholeheartedly. I don't get any sort of connection between this and a relaxed or inviting mood, though. On the contrary, something that leads a normally mild-mannered person to an outburst of cursing is likely to make me apprehensive and ready to flee.

Never heard of him. I still know next to nothing about him -- all the web search links I tried to follow were to video and social media sites that are blocked at my workplace. I figure that says enough about his desirability as a speaker, and I won't go pursuing it further.

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

[quote=Alan Anderson;1064555]If someone swears at me, or at something near me, my reaction is hardly going to be one of decreased stress! I'm obviously not understanding you at all.



With this I agree wholeheartedly. I don't get any sort of connection between this and a relaxed or inviting mood, though. On the contrary, something that leads a normally mild-mannered person to an outburst of cursing is likely to make me apprehensive and ready to flee.


Take this situation:

You are a new intern at a corporate office. It is your first day. Everyone is walking around in a business suit. You are tasked with getting the coffee.

You walk into the room with all of the coffee. All of the employees are talking in a heated manner, with very straight and serious faces. Unfortunately you spill a cup onto the table. One of the employees looks up at you, and with a smile, he chuckles out the words "(A barrier constructed to hold back water and raise its level, also what a beaver makes.) kid, first day huh?", but in a very lighthearted manner.

Just like anything else, it is ALL about your tone and delivery.

On another note-

What was the photo removed of?

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

The "removed photo"...

Purportedly of a game element. Therefore, there was never a photo there, and Bill Miller has proceeded to start the annual torture.

BTW, with the swearing: I'm in Alan's camp. If the situation you described happened at my workplace, whoever said it would probably get a talk with their supervisor. It might not happen on the spot, but within a day or so, they would most likely be in the supervisor's office for a little chat. Even if it was obvious they were joking.

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

Sorry, I wasn't referring to swearing at me or an object, rather I was referring to casual language. The same could be said for slang in these situations. I know when my professors swore "with" me (not at me) it was nice to see them not act superior but rather as a mutual academic.

What I was trying to say was that slang and swearing not directed at things can have an interesting effect on the tone of the conversation. I completely understand that some work places would like to exclude this type of language as it certainly offends some. Then again so is the case with using the Lords name in vain, but I don't know of many work places that prohibit that in the same way they prohibit swearing.

protecting freedoms is an oxymoron :).

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

What you actually wrote was that it can have an inviting effect. If that was merely a misspelling of "interesting", I retract my disagreement.

As for Matt's hypothetical coffee-spilling newbie getting cursed at with a smile...were I on the receiving end of the curse, I'm pretty sure I'd be doing my best to avoid that particular chuckling employee for the rest of my time there. First impressions are hard to change, and if the first thing I hear out of someone's mouth is a swear word aimed at me, my impression of them is going to start out very low. It's going to be especially low if they seem to be treating it as a joke.

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

Matt, if I change your sentence to "First day, huh kid?" or something of that sort and omit the profanity, I have succeeded in making exactly the same statement and removed the potential to insult someone by using profanity. In the (limited) cases I can think of that people use profanity, I can achieve the same result without the use of profanity.

Dave, I both agree and disagree with your point. We do not know (though I realize there may be individuals on CD that do know) based on Bill's statements what led up to the exclamation and what was said/done after. If it was a discussion that only the FTA and team member could hear, the language could have been acceptable. If it wasn't, a later apology could have occurred and while the initial action may have been wrong, amends could have been made.
That said, it certainly appears this discussion was not in an area that allowed for a discussion to be limited to the hearing of the two individuals as evidenced by the fact that a judge overheard. So, is it ever wise/advisable to be using profanity where others (general public) can hear you? Remember, the other people can be young children and people that are insulted by the use of profane language.

Full disclosure: I do not use profanity and try to avoid being around people that do whenever possible.

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

The blog post makes no mention of whether the team responsible was in any way notified of what took place. I hope that this isn't the first they're learning of this.

I am uneasy with judges making decisions without first learning more about the context of the interaction. I hope they spoke to all involved before eliminating the team from consideration.

On the whole, this seems like a passive aggressive way of making a point.

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

Note: The following post contains many maybes and things to consider. I do not try to assert any facts.

Has anyone even considered the context of the conversation?

I expect the FTA knew plenty about the field system, but how much do they know about play a game of pokemon? How much do they know about how to build a car engine? Maybe the student, albeit rude*, was correct.

Has anyone considered the tone of the students voice? Although it seems implied, it is not spelled out. This thread seems to have two different opinions on how abrasive language can reflect on a person. Maybe it was a conversation between two friends, one who happens to represent FIRST.

Another thing to consider is we are hearing this story 3rd or 4th hand. Could a small detail have been assumed? Could someone have exaggerated something to a point? Is this story being told as the eye-witness or one of the participants recall it?

Again, I am not saying any of this did happen. I am just suggesting that we are taking one side of a story and there might be some details we have overlooked.

*The language can be open to interpretation.

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

I don't need to expend much more thinking on the message other than a team that was being considered for a prestigious award was taken out of the running because of a team member's conduct.

Whether I agree, personally, with how the message was conveyed in Bill's Blog or not, isn't important - and that is what I would tell the team when we talk about the impact (positive or negative) of conduct as individuals representing the team and, as a team as a whole.

That's the bottom line.

Jane

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

That's definitely correct.

One thing I think about when I'm out and about is the shirt I wear. Whenever I put on a shirt, chances are that it has a logo on it. That logo represents something--a team, a camp, a company, a college, some group that I have had some association with. If I don't act in a way that brings respect to that group, or at the very least leaves a neutral impression, I detract from the group's reputation. I don't want to detract from that reputation. I can be identified as a member of that group--even by someone who just knows the logo--and what I do affects their reputation.

That's why I always try to act professionally--or not wear something identifying any groups I'm with when I have fun on the slightly crazy side.

At a regional, anything you say reflects on the team whose shirt you're wearing--competing team or team of volunteers. When one team makes a bad impression on another team, one or both teams can get a black eye.

Re: [BB] What did you do with your weekend?
 

That shouldn't even be a consideration. No matter how provoked, how angry you are, you ALWAYS act with respect and courtesy. There are ways to get your point across without resorting to swearing. FIRST is real life, not a blog or radio talk show where you can act badly with no consequences. We have not done our job of preparing students for careers if we condone such behavior.

Remember, the field people (with the exception of FIRST employees) are all volunteers. They are volunteering their time and almost always their money to enable YOU to compete. (A few key volunteers sometimes get their expenses paid, but very few.) If volunteers get reactions such as the one being discussed, no matter if it was their fault, they will stop volunteering. It takes a special person to be a FTA - don't chase them away.

And teams losing awards because of one student's behavior is unfortunately not rare. It's an open secret that judges have always asked field personnel if any teams have stood out in their minds, negatively or positively. And not just for incidents on the field either.