Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Does anybody know of the best defensive robots throughout all of FIRST? Like, not just pinning other robots, but actually preventing them from scoring, or taking away points if legal.

Thanks!

EDIT: Links would be appreciated! Thanks!

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

The best defensive bot was also the best offensive bot IMO, team 71, the BEAST from 2002.

So awesome.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

179 Children of the Swamp from 2007 deserves a shout out with their amazing defense that held some very potent robots to little to no tubes.

190 Gompei and the Herd from WPI in 2004 was extremely well at both blocking other robots from hanging but stealing the opponents doubler ball and then placing it on their own goal. Genius!

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Team Crush 1011 was an amazing defender at Arizona this year. It got them all the way to the top 10 in the rankings and made them an alliance captain.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Rosie Robotics 839 from 2010. Toughest Defense we've seen. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/user/TeamThru.../3/Azqfuw4GRpI

http://www.youtube.com/user/TeamThru.../5/80VPnWXZ4Og

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I'll second the FRC839 at the CT regional in 2010, watching the constantly hound and eventually place 1501 in a goal was quite a sight to see.

As well as FRC190 2004, with the ability to climb up the field, hang in auto, block the entire bar and then decap the bonus ball was nothing short of impressive.

FRC177 2006, I drove with an against them quite a few times that year, there ability to get in the way (and flip people legally) was smart, tough, driving. If I remember correctly there's a "Greatest Hits" video out there somewhere. (Bobcats are known for their East Coast defense, though this years robot was a scoring machine)

And who can forget Truck Town Thunder, "No one pushes Truck Town"

Notable Mention: FRC703 in 2007 solid defense with even better ramps.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

288 RoboDawgs in 2000 was a great defensive machine. They had an appendage that looked like a chainsaw that they would insert into the goal between the pipes, turn it on, and drive the length of the goal removing every ball in the goal.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I forgot my favorite of all time. It was the 1997 machine from current team 148. They held their tubes in scoring position while they spun the goal around. Usually they spun the goal enough to keep their robot between the goal and any robot attempting to score, but if they needed to they could just spin it really fact so no one could score.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned 68's 2003 robot (before it was deemed illegal).

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/14988

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

IIRC the Rhode Warriors 1997 robot had a legal robot flipping mechanism.

This was the time when games were rougher and no one had bumpers and high speed collisions were legal and expected.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

This year, 973 stood out pretty clearly on Einstein.

The best 2010 defenders were third zone bots that could actually control the game from the back. 3138 and 294 did it like few others, even the elite teams, could.

2009 defense was less about the robot and much more about the driver, but 247 was very good.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Team 25 in 2000. Their robot was aptly named "Cradle-Robber"

http://www.raiderrobotix.org/robots/
(scroll down to 2000)

edit:

CD-Media has a few pictures of them in action-
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/13151



They would park on top of the ramp, pick balls out of the opposing alliance's cradle, and drop them in their own, while blocking other teams from hanging on the pull-up bar. Ultimate defense.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

111 in 2003

45 in 1999

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Although it isn't defense, there was a team in 2008 that built a robot that picked up a track ball on a huge rotating boom, parked near the middle of the field, and then spun the boom and the ball over the whole field. Scoring the trackball about every 2 seconds, Ultimate defense through ultimate offense. Too bad they were disqualified.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

It was 190, but they were pushing the line of legality, and not legal at some events. Anyone who got a chance to see it would have to agree the infinite rotation of the arm, and many of the other features were quite impressive from an engineering standpoint.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I don't know the rules from Overdrive too well, would you mind informing me as to why it's illegal?
Thanks.
---------------
No offense to 839 or 1501, but a lot of that defense was definitely by 839 a red card imho (1st vid especially). Aside from the penalty-deserving actions, fantastic defensive bot. But, i don't really want to get into an argument on that, just felt like saying it :]

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Team 2185....ROBORAMS IN 2009 played defensive at Waterloo, GTA and was picked for the quarter finals in CURRIE FIELD.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

[quote=wendells;1066022]Team 2185....ROBORAMS

Wait.... THERE'S ANOTHER ROBORAMS??? When did they start? I think we were the RoboRams FIRST, but I don't know when they started.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

The argument could be made that it was crossing a lane line in reverse. This was a penalty, and a pretty severe one (<G22> was that rule that year, for anybody wanting to look it up--there may have been another one as well).

Regarding the defense played on 1501: There was a big discussion of that at the time. If I recall, the "consensus" was that the defense was borderline, but legal. And that consensus was the result of an argument.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I recall hearing about a team that created a robot that gathered all game pieces at the beginning of the match and then gave them to allies to score. The idea was that the opponent can't score without game pieces. I was told this is the cause of the rules that say "only possess 1 piece at a time". Can anyone confirm this story to be true? If so, what team number and year?

I really am not sure this story is true but it is one that I've heard a long time ago and always loved the idea.

Thanks,
Jason

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Team 1 in 2000. They had a very simple and clean robot that year.

Their turret arm could be used to guard the lift pipe while they drove back and forth on the ramp.

It was a beast of a machine.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

we had an idea this year of mounting a gym fan on top of our robot, and putting every motor allowed on it. parking by our mini-bot tower and locking on. this would have blown all the pieces to our side.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Team 8 in 08 was the only team that seemed to be able to play any defense in that game without incurring penalties.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

The "One piece at a time" rules came into play in 2007. In 2006 and 2009, multiple were allowed.

The "harvester/hoarder" strategy was discussed in 2006, but I can't think of a single team that implemented it. In 2005, multiple teams grabbed multiple tetras, but because of the large supply, it wasn't an issue--I don't think a single match ran out.

Typically, those rules are only when there is a "limited" supply of game pieces, so either it's necessary to keep teams from hoarding right off the bat, or it's to make sure that the supply doesn't run out too fast.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I must admit that I'm somewhat disappointed to find that the rumored robot is just that. A rumor. I actually heard the rumor back when I started in 2006. I figured it must have happened a few years before that. At least now I finally know that its a rumor.

Thanks,
Jason

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

That "rumor" probably evolved out of the "A-Bomb" move pulled off by 195 and 968 multiple times on their trip to the Einstein finals together. While it was nowhere close to all the balls, 195 did spend large portions of matches running around the field collecting balls, only to feed them to 968 when the final period of the match started. 968 would then go score them.


I've found, almost without exception, that the truly elite defensive teams are the teams with elite drivers. A lot of teams can be an effective defender with an okay driver and robot, but the greatest defensive teams are the ones with the best drivers (almost regardless of robot design or quality).

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

With regards to the san jose regional, the refs were just letting way too much slide. They were playing illegal defense in the homezone, but it was just allowed to go.

So I guess you could say the referees are capable of being serious defenders ;)

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

If you get a chance, go back and watch some videos of 148 in the Galileo Eliminations and on Einstein. They often went unnoticed in many of those matches (It was hard to out shine 1114 and 217 that year) but they made some really good defensive moves.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I'll second that! 148 saw a weakness in our robot and exploited it for all it was worth. The finals on Einstein may have gone differently if 148 was not on that "Super Alliance".

I'll give props to an under-rated team from this year. 3357 played some of the best defense I saw all season against us at West Michigan. It's too bad they didn't get a chance to play it at either MSC or St. Louis, they could have been a factor.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Even though Team 2185 didnt get to go on to the Champs, they were probably one of the best defensive robot this year (especially in Canada).

Check this video out of 2185 attempting and successfully blocking 1114 from shooting :ahh: :p ::safety::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_NVX...ure=plpp_video

GO TO AROUND 1:40

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Our team designed our entire robot this year around defensive play and the end game. I wouldn't put us in the category of best defensive robots of all time but we did reference a lot of defensive teams in the past to formulate our strategy and driver approach. I have to say, sometimes playing defense is so much fun! Here's a quick highlight video our kids put together if you guys are interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni8Ex...ature=youtu.be

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

My personal favorite was 4226. we partnered with them in Minnesota. I've seen a lot of rookies play defense, but never this good. They were getting points for our alliance by playing defense, and they were completely overlooked by everyone else. I remember our strategy meeting on friday of that regional, and how we decided on our second pick (them) before we decided on our first pick, and then praying that they didn't get picked by anyone else.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I'm hesitant to add yet another bump to an already year old thread, but the topic of the thread itself is fitting and I feel not a lot of people got a chance to see this because of the competitions that took place the same week of the Buckeye regional.

My vote for best defensive robot this year goes to 1551: The Grapes of Wrath for literally shooting a ball out of the air. :yikes:

It's about 40 seconds in to this video that team 291 was so gracious to provide on their Ustream account.

Watch and be amazed.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

That was a cool match. Shooting balls out of the air? I think yes.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Ummmm, where is team 16 , 2012?

They starved every other alliance of balls, feeding them to their alliance. They were also rugged enough to take hits. Lots of hits. Their catapult allowed them to score in hybrid and switch to offense if the need arouse, so they were not a "helpless" D-bot.

I have to say 16 is definitively, whether intentionally or not, one of the better D-Bots of all time.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

If we're going for the starvation strategy, then I must say that 2010 469 has got to be the most amazing intentional starvation robot of my time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR3l_d8YPtA
MSC Finals Match 1

What is even more crazy, and I got to see this in person in Atlanta, is that the Newton champs (67 294 177) simply outscored them. That is where history was made and to the victor goes the spoils.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Agreed. It was hard not to keel over in envy while watching 16 driving. Whoever their driver is, he/she definitely knows how to use that drive train. Someone give 'em a medal. What delightfully fantastic driving.

Their defense, especially on Einstein, was the best you'll see in Rebound Rumble. You honestly can't get much better than that.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I believe team 16 from the winning alliance had hands down best defense because of their ball starving system.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

The best offensive robots will always be good teams with quality machines and well practiced drivers.... the kind of teams that usually spend their time playing offense.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

This year it's 16. No one else is even close.

After our first match against their alliance on Galileo, I was absolutely shocked to see they had almost doubled our basket score. The sole reason was the speed at which 16 was able to pick up balls and shuttle them to the mid line and dump them. At the time, I had no idea why.

In the second match, we tripled and they did not, but I spent more time watching them. In the third match, with 1918 broken down, they had full swing of our offensive zone and we couldn't triple. It was almost embarassing how quickly they removed the balls from our zone.

16 was not afraid to go anywhere - through the key, through our lane, next to our bridge. I can't say I saw them pick up a single penalty. I suspect most folks weren't watching them much.... but they were the key to Galileo's world championship.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

That would be Austin, and from the time he took the wheel and joystick in hand he has been amazing. This was his third year as our primary driver. I have no doubt we will miss him next year. I'm glad he got to show off on Einstein in his final year. He's been a lot of fun to watch.

We had a lot of people asking us about our swerve drive this year at champs, and I'm sure he is a big reason people are interested. He makes it look good.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Even though starving the balls are a strategy for defensive..i personally believe that the ability to block teams from shooting is the better robot. LIKE team 2185 who blocked one of the best known teams in FIRST (1114). Like if a robot starves the balls, the opposing alliance can easily put a stop to them. So therefore i personally believe that Team 2185 is probably one of the best defensive robot in Canada (atleast for this year) ::safety::

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

How about a list of great defenders I liked from each year:

2007: 48, 703, 177
2008: 148, 348
2009: 503, 247
2010: 294!!
2011: Defense? What's that?
2012: 16, 4334

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Although we were primarily a scoring machine, we played some good defense in champ elims in 2011 ;)

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Sorry, I kind of "skipped" the year 2011. I only watched matches online and don't really remember what the word "defense" meant last year. Although I do remember there was a strategy where you pushed the other alliance's tubes into your lane so they would get penalties if they tried to get them. Oh, and you could steal tubes from them. But I don't really remember who was good at that.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

469 played some mean D against 1114 & my alliance on Galileo, but D wasn't very effective that year.

(2011)

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

294 in 2010. Not only did they help win us and 359 the San Diego Regional, they also played defense against 469 on Einstein and won. They shoved one of 469's alliance members into their own goal, and just sat in front of the other, effectively starving 469 of any balls to redirect. It was amazing to watch.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Team 1551 the grapes of wrath. There robot had ocotanum so it could switch to mecs and performance wheels.

1551 was a first pick at both their regionals. There robot was fast and maneuverable yet small allowing them to balance. Their shooter could shoot balls across the field with ease. And their ball pickup made it so they could steal balls quickly.

1551's robot was on the top of everyone's pick lists and they showed how awesome they can be. They were a regional finalist.

Nice job 1551 this season I was rooting for you guys in the finals!!!

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

From this year i would say team 869 (the best i've seen), all they do is push other teams around and just shutdown anyone shooting at the fender and are just dedicated to defense.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Thinking back a few years two teams come to mind:

2006: Team 177 - Bobcat Robotics
Had the honor of being on the same alliance as them at both the CT Regional and Battlecry that year falling victim to their defence. Their base driver was smart and relentless, and there is even a "Greatest Hits" video out there somewhere.

2010: Team 97 - Bionic Beef (then called "The Cow")
Playing against them in Boston was a challenge, and they were had an absolute brute of a robot.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

The most annoying defender was sliced-off kitbot with a net. It just sat in front of my human player station blocking basketballs. Then it balanced.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Team 16's robot this year seemed to be very effective at CMP elimination rounds with the feeding strategy. It was maneuverable, fast, and from what I'm told relatively strong. Utilizing their beast of a ball acquisition mechanism, they definitely cleaned up the other side of the field.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

When I saw Adam spin up the shooter, I knew that he was going to actually try that... And the it happened so fast I wasn't even sure it worked, and had to watch the video later! It's fun to see an idea you were just joking about become reality. :D

Awwww, thanks! We're disappointed our shooter never quite worked the way we wanted it to, but it was fun being the pushiest, shoviest robot at FLR and Buckeye. Believe it or not, the Canadian Duck Hunt (above) is my second-favorite moment of the season. My first is when we were playing 191 in the second qualifying game in a row, and as soon as we got in front of the fender their driver shrugged, put his hands on his head, and then went back to driving -- but didn't bother trying to score any more balls.

I think it says something about game strategy that a robot with a near-negative OPR was picked in the first round of selections in both of their regionals... The GDC did an awesome job designing Rebound Rumble, and I can't wait to see what they've come up with for next year!

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

207 was a beastly defender... a great mix of brute force, speed and finesse capable of pushing opponents around yet mobile enough to pick up tons of balls and shoot them back to us on our side. They flew through the air with the greatest of ease (not slowed down by the center bridge turned into a fixed ramp).They were a big part of the success the "Pink Metal Rollers" had this year and we are proud to call them our friends!

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Not to toot my own horn, but our robot last year gave team 111 (last year's world champs) their only two losses at the Midwest Regional by effectively just getting in their way and pushing them around with our super strong 6W tank drive.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I was awestruck that you guys seeded so low at Buckeye. Opr has nothing to do with awesome defensive skills.

I wish we had you guys on our alliance in elims. But 2 defensive robots wouldn't work in this game very well.

You guys always go to the finals in even years? 2008 2010 2012.....

I see a trend coming :ahh:

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

1218 in the finals match #1 of the MAR Championships successfully stood their ground and barely moved at all against 3 robots pushing against them to get to the bridge. While they incurred too many technical fouls for it to matter it was incredibly exciting to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2bQ_frSNlk

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Nobody has said it but 488's defense at their first regional was awesome they stopped a triple I love those matches.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Oh I love the old robots.

Team 131, CHAOS from 2000. They would pick balls out of the goals like no ones business

How about 111 from 2003? I mean, they won it all defending that ramp.

Lastly, 1319 from 2007. They were a huge reason that our alliance made it to Einstein that year. Incredible defense and quick enough to get back and deploy their ramps.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

If you'd like to see the robot from that year...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDUl0pkjkjc

Fast forward to 18:30 to see it in action, we were team 35 back then.

EDIT: Fast forward to 1:20:30 to actually see us playing HOT

The point of the design was to keep other robots from scoring by spinning the goal. It worked fairly well. I have a better video of it somewhere with "God Bless Texas" playing in the background ;)... I'll keep looking for it.

As for that video itself, it seems to be the property of someone on HOT. It's long but pretty entertaining.

As for this year... hands down my vote goes to 16 for reasons already explained in earlier posts. They were incredible.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Just curious (sorry to derail the thread) but why did the numbers change?

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

1370 were one of the best solely defensive bots in the early season and in MAR. I was amazed that they were such a late pick at Rutgers. They showed that it is possible to play great defense with mecanum wheels.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

New numbers were assigned every year based on where the team sponsor's name fell alphabetically relative to the rest of the teams in FIRST. I believe E-Systems was our main sponsor then and there still wasn't a ton of teams in FIRST at the time, thus the low number.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it was the following year that they locked the numbers that were assigned to teams, again based on sponsor name.

I would find it hard to believe if there wasn't a thread you could find via search with more information about this topic.


On topic:
Another team we had the pleasure of competing with on Galileo was team 870. For raw, uncompromising, unapologetic defense, it didn't get much better than them in our division. Too bad they were never picked for elims, they typically put on quite a show.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

How about 494 from 2003 - 2004? Their driver is now a mentor for our team and apparently he was one of the most feared defenders of his time playing absolutely brute defense. He got to Einstein both years and won in 2004 so he must have been pretty good. Can anyone from back then confirm this?

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

1241 played some amazing defense for Semi 2 1 at GTR West. They managed to fend off a triple balance and push 2056 away from the fender on numerous occasions. I've been looking for a full video of this everywhere, but the video on YouTube cuts off rather early:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNL7IB2jJGM

Does anyone have a link to a video made by someone in the stands of this match, possibly? It was fantastic defense they played and I'd enjoy watching that match again.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

http://youtu.be/fQzyydRiek4

Here you go. You can't see much of their amazing defence until you near the end of the video though :(

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Thanks so much! I've been searching for quite some time unable to find that match. Even though 1241 wasn't within sight for most of that match, I still enjoyed your robot scoring - it was very impressive to see your robot score as well as it did!

I remember wondering to myself if 1241 incurred a penalty as to whether they made contact with the blue bridge or not, and their robot compressed a basketball between them and the bridge really well. Do you recall if they did indeed incur a penalty? Nonetheless, I believe the blue alliance incurred a foul for pinning 1241.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

For a team that didn't score a single ball or tube point over the past two seasons, 2586 has played some MAD Defence. They were a huge factor for their alliance that upset 217/33 at Troy in 2011 (no offence to 1718/3539, who were awesome). This year, they again made it to MSC based almost entirely on defence, though didn't have as much elimination success.

Here's one of the Troy matches, but you can see the rest on the same channel: http://youtu.be/gaAxiAO-Nag

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

I know that not many people look at the rookie teams because they are new to FIRST, but I have to give a shout out to little team 4057 that came from nowhere with no shooter and a robot that cost about 300 bucks to make it to worlds and be able to play defense against some of the best robots in the world. We are small but we feel mighty and proud of our little robot. With that I thank you for letting little rookie team have its say and will let you get back to your discussion. :]

This. So much this. I'll try to find a video of it.

Edit: FOUND IT!
Tapatalk makes inserting links dificult.

Re: Best defensive robots throughout FIRST
 

Confirmed.

494 was known for having just absolute beast drive systems. I believe they were one of the first to implement a 6 motor skid steer system (before we were allowed 4 CIMs/Chips). I remember they used to bring a dyno for teams to run their robots on find out how they stacked up against the rest for pushing power.

-Brando