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Dale 30-06-2011 18:45

Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
I'm looking to replace our 12" miter saw in our robotics lab this summer. Currently we have a well-used non-sliding version which we use to cut sticks of aluminum like 80/20 and flat stock up to 6" wide. It has a 96 tooth carbide blade.

Our miter saw has a habit of grabbing things and flinging them around the room which certainly gets your attention! We change the blade frequently but I'm getting sick of it. It's also crazy noisy.

Any thoughts on what the ideal tool would be for cutting aluminum square tubing and 80/20? Extra points for something quiet(er). My initial thought is a 10" sliding miter saw like this with an aluminum cutting blade.

slijin 30-06-2011 18:51

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
I believe this is the horizontal bandsaw we have in our lab. It's always been my choice of preference for cutting channel and 80/20, but our designs rarely call for angled cuts (if they did, I'd probably just take it over to the disc sander and run it down), so if you want to keep that ability, you may want something else.

Chris is me 30-06-2011 18:52

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
Horizontal band saw, every time. Always. My favorite tool ever.

Dale 30-06-2011 19:00

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
Angles are seldom needed in what we do, either. Am I correct that for aluminum I wouldn't need a band saw with an oil system?

How does their noise and speed compare? I assume accuracy is as good or better.

If I were to get a horz band saw, what features are important?

Chris is me 30-06-2011 19:03

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale (Post 1067343)
How does their noise and speed compare? I assume accuracy is as good or better.

I've only used one with an oil bath, so I'm not an expert, but it's definitely not very loud and cuts relatively quickly.

Duke461 30-06-2011 19:09

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
Horizontal Bandsaw is definitely the way to go. I believe that this is what we have in our shop. It's pretty heavy duty and expensive, but it's not loud, and works amazingly well. It also has a built in fluid system to help the blade cut through materials other than aluminum.
Hope this helps,
-duke
P.S. as for noise, I'm almost positive that Miter Saws make more noise than horizontal bandsaws. You could probably find youtube videos of people using each of those machines and compare the relative noise.

MrForbes 30-06-2011 19:22

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
A horizontal band saw is relatively quiet, and relatively safe. The blade moves kind of slow, although for cutting aluminum it should be adjusted to a faster speed than for cutting steel.

Definitely the way to go......

Cory 30-06-2011 19:38

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale (Post 1067343)
Angles are seldom needed in what we do, either. Am I correct that for aluminum I wouldn't need a band saw with an oil system?

How does their noise and speed compare? I assume accuracy is as good or better.

If I were to get a horz band saw, what features are important?

Accuracy of a horizontal bandsaw is going to range from slightly to dramatically worse than a miter saw.

If you use a good miter saw, or a miter style chop saw specifically for cutting metal you can get a nearly perfectly square and finished cut.

With a bandsaw if you were to be cutting tube to weld a frame you would almost certainly have to mill the ends square to provide a good joint.

We purchased this saw for our machine shop trailer that supports FRC events this year. The machinists who used it liked it quite a bit. I've used it a few times and it's definitely better than a standard miter saw with a metal cutting blade.

Akash Rastogi 30-06-2011 19:45

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
I personally like sliding miter saws similar to the ones mentioned. As Cory said, you lose accuracy of the cut (although it was a cheaper Grizzly horz saw, we experienced some flex in the blade). We would just use our chop saw and would usually have a good enough cut to use the piece as is. Rarely had to square the ends. I don't have a specific saw to buy, but I would still recommend the chop saw over the horizontal bandsaw. Just make sure to purchase high quality blades too, for either option.

mathking 30-06-2011 19:51

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
We have a band saw like the one slijin linked to, and it has worked very well for us over the past four years. It cuts very accurately for anything small enough to be clamped into and cut horizontally (it can also be set up as a vertical cut band saw) which is up to about 3x3 tubing. It does not have a built-in oiling system, but we use oil when cutting most stuff, though with 1x1 tubing (whether 1/8" or 1/16" wall) it cuts fine without the oil. We get a new blade at the start of each build season and it works fine.

On the other hand, we are looking at the purchase of a mitre saw this off season as well. There are some things we cut where the miter saw is just a better option.

Hawiian Cadder 30-06-2011 20:34

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
we have a horizontal and vertical band saw.

the horizontal band saw is better for making repetitive cuts, however the vertical band saw can cut plate as well as do more stuff. if you have a limited shop area and want to use one machine for everything, the vertical band saw will do that, however it is not as easy or nice for cutting 80-20 or tubes.

slijin 30-06-2011 21:07

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
What we do is run a stick of lube (I'm not sure what type, it's a thick pastel-y bar) along the blade right before letting 'er rip on the stock, then we just drop the saw and watch it eat through the aluminum. Most cuts we have are usually almost perfectly square; if they're not, a file takes care of the rest.

One thing I would like to make note of though, is that horizontal bandsaws have a hard time chewing through flat slats of material (although it seems much more obvious in retrospect). For instance, when running a cut through a 1x1 channel, the first side of the channel will take the blade a bit of time to saw through, the two sides of the channel that are ~perpendicular to the blade disappear within 1-2 seconds, and the last side takes a bit longer as well. What I do to counter this (because it also unduly stresses the blade) is drop channel into the clamp at an angle, so that it's not actually flush witho the base of the clamp. This way, the saw has a much easier time of cutting through the material.

billbo911 30-06-2011 21:17

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
The advantages and disadvantages of the Miter and Horizontal Band Saw have been covered pretty well. In summary, the Miter is more precise but can be noisy. The Band Saw is less accurate but fairly quiet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale (Post 1067339)
Our miter saw has a habit of grabbing things and flinging them around the room which certainly gets your attention!

The best advice I have for this situation is to keep a sharp carbide tipped blade on it. Cut a bit slower, let the blade do the work and don't force it. Lastly, secure the material you are cutting. It will be safer and the cuts will be more accurate.

Akash Rastogi 30-06-2011 23:52

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by billbo911 (Post 1067360)
The advantages and disadvantages of the Miter and Horizontal Band Saw have been covered pretty well. In summary, the Miter is more precise but can be noisy. The Band Saw is less accurate but fairly quiet.



The best advice I have for this situation is to keep a sharp carbide tipped blade on it. Cut a bit slower, let the blade do the work and don't force it. Lastly, secure the material you are cutting. It will be safer and the cuts will be more accurate.

Along with this, make sure you carefully inspect your blade, you might need to replace the blade if it is grabbing onto your material. (broken teeth)

And always ALWAYS clamp what you are cutting.

ChuckDickerson 30-06-2011 23:55

Re: Tool Advice: Cutting Aluminum
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by billbo911 (Post 1067360)
The advantages and disadvantages of the Miter and Horizontal Band Saw have been covered pretty well. In summary, the Miter is more precise but can be noisy. The Band Saw is less accurate but fairly quiet.



The best advice I have for this situation is to keep a sharp carbide tipped blade on it. Cut a bit slower, let the blade do the work and don't force it. Lastly, secure the material you are cutting. It will be safer and the cuts will be more accurate.

This has been my experience as well. Basically, we use a cheapo (<$100) 10” non-sliding miter saw for cutting aluminum stock (up to about 4” wide) down to size. It cuts 80/20 T-Slot (10 series) nice, clean and square enough on the ends to require no further machining (other than either tapping the end hole or anchor pocketing depending on which connector we are using). The secret to good miter saw cuts is less about the saw and more about the blade. It has been my experience that this holds true when cutting any material. I would rather have a cheapo saw with a good blade over a high dollar saw with a dull cheap blade any day. Always use a good blade designed to cut aluminum when cutting aluminum (duh). We use a Freud blade from the local Home Depot that runs ~$50 designed for aluminum. 80 tooth IIRC. I usually change it a couple of times during the 6 week build season. No getting around it though, cutting aluminum on a miter saw is noisy!

We also have this horizontal bandsaw we use on occasion for cutting heavier aluminum, round stuff or steel. It’s nice, slow, quiet, but sure doesn’t cut as clean or square as the miter saw does on the smaller aluminum.

I feel compelled at this point to stress safety concerning cutting aluminum on a miter saw. It goes without saying that the material needs to be clamped securely. While it may seem obvious, I would STRONGLY recommend AGAINST cutting round stock on a miter saw, especially short pieces that can’t be securely clamped properly. I can say from 2 separate experiences (years apart) that this is a VERY BAD IDEA. In both cases, I was younger, less wise, and barely escaped serious injury. After the second incident I quickly gained some wisdom and realized what happened and swore I would absolutely never cut round stock on a miter saw again including but not limited to PVC pipe, aluminum tube/round bar, and in the case of the second incident even aluminum hex stock. Bottom line, in both of my bad experiences the long piece was being held securely but the short piece being cut off was too short to clamp. After the completion of the cut the short piece “rolled” into the blade and was ejected at a very high velocity like a bullet. After the first incident I found the cutoff piece about 100 feet away in my neighbor’s yard where it had bounced of (and cracked) one of their windows. The second incident actually happened in our robotics shop a few years ago. It damaged the saw, fractured half a dozen teeth off the blade, and ejected the part clean across the room which fortunately was only occupied by myself at the time. It was there and then that I instigated the “no cutting round stuff on the miter saw rule” and ordered the above horizontal bandsaw for the robotics shop. I still have the broken blade and the jagged pieces of the hex stock and bring them out every year as examples during our team miter saw safety training. Pictures available upon request...

On another miter saw safety note, I have observed many people who “think they know what they are doing” improperly using a miter saw in a very simple way. After the blade has cut through the material continue to pull the blade all the way down, release the trigger, and let the blade come to a complete stop before raising the blade. Never raise the blade back up while it is still spinning. At a minimum you risk buggering up the material being cut on the “back cut”. Safety wise the cutoff part can get snagged and ejected as well. The material has already been cut. No need to try to cut it again on the way up.

Also, for what it's worth and in case anyone was wondering, I had an idea one time to get one of those variable speed A/C motor controllers used on routers to slow them down and try it on the miter saw to slow the blade down some when cutting aluminum. That didn't go so well either. Aluminum really does like to be cut better at high speed...


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