Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

A lot of good points have already been made, so I would just like to mention one large part of it that doesn't get enough attention. Education starts at home. It is the responsibility of the parent(s) or guardian(s) of a child to ensure they are prepared to come to school every day and try their hardest.

You can say as much as you want about the quality of educators (something I could spend a whole afternoon on), class size, how data is gathered, curriculum difficulty, lowering standards, and so on, but the root of the problem is not reached when you only examine 25% of a students time. Education does not start when the first bell rings, nor does it end when the last bell sounds.

An educator is only responsible for a child roughly 6 hours a day. What about the other 18? In today's society there are simply too many households where kids don't get enough supervision. When you live in a single parent household, a household were both parents work extremely demanding jobs, or with parents who simply don't care, kids don't receive the attention required they might need to get homework done or stay out of trouble.

Having a grandmother and two aunts who taught in public schools their entire working careers, I heard this firsthand. When I ask them about slipping quality of education in the United States they always start with the same thing. Parents just don't get involved (the next thing would be their co-workers, but that's not my point). They expect the school to take care of every single educational need the child has. I heard the same things from my teachers going through the the public school system myself. I would frequently hear some variation of this sentence after teacher conferences: "thank you to the four of you whose parents showed up last night."

I fear the reason this does not get addressed more often is because, unlike other things which are merely nearly impossible to change, this is impossible to change. When 50% of marriages end in divorce, single parent households are inevitable. When it is now the norm for both parents to work, kids having too much unsupervised time is inevitable. When people expect the school to do everything, it is inevitable.

Another thought I had involves CBAs. A 9th grade geography teacher is much different than a 12th grade calculus teacher. They should be nowhere near same pay in my opinion. A CBA will undoubtedly push the pay of most teachers up, yet it seems like it harms the most important teachers and the hardest teachers to find. There is a reason why 300 people applied for a social studies position at my high school, yet only three people applied to be the new physics teacher the same year. I couldn't believe those numbers myself, but after I heard them the first time three separate people backed them up later on. This included the physics teacher who got hired out of that trio.

So, to answer your question shortly. We cannot fix it until parents get back involved with their children's lives.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

Today I read an article at Wired and was reminded of your post. It's about the Kahn Academy (rather long). Here's an interesting excerpt (emphasis mine):
Wouldn't want there to be a solution that allows an unfair advantage, would we? </sarcasm>

Quite true. In the last 5 years I've had 2 roomates and 1 close friend who taught/teach elementary school. One of the patterns I sorta realized from them venting about their day or discussing anonymous child A is that if the child was really struggling then usually the parents were very hands-off. In one (most likely rare) case the parent literally did expect her to teach her child better behavior and correct for mistakes at home.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

I have a couple points here, first, I'd encourage some view this video of a talk given by Sir Ken Robinson, and maybe some others of his talks. I like a lot of what he has to say on the problems with education, and I wish I knew how to fix them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

Most testing schemes particularly those for getting into college test a very narrow view of intelligence. And I think the current education system leaves far too many students out in the cold.

I think that technical schools are highly underrated and ignored.

Such an opportunity would have helped both my father and myself. My father was a pretty average student in school, but has a great aptitude for mechanics. He had wanted to go into the technical/vocational school in his hometown, but was too average, they reserved this school for the kids that were too "dumb" to pass regular high school, they figured it would be good to just get them ready for menial work. I've learned a lot from him mostly how to work around a problem, things they never teach you at school, and I still learn things from him every time I see him, but the standardized tests of this day would probably judge him far below average. When we neglect to recognize this type of talent as a society, we only hurt ourselves.

My stint was a bit later in life. I enjoyed FIRST very much in high school, and all I really knew going into college was that I liked building stuff like this. Everyone I knew friends, family, people from FIRST that I spoke with, all said the same thing: Engineering. I guess it could have worked out, but it wasn't a good fit for me. I excelled in lab work, but barely managed a passing grade on tests. It felt like high school allover for me. In lab I was finished with my work quickly scoring top marks and then I would spend the rest of class helping the other students figure out a relatively simple circuit. Later in the week test time showed up, and these same kids that barely understood the principles of parallel vs. series circuitry were kicking my butt on circuit analysis and what have you. It wasn't until I was almost 3 years struggling into a degree in engineering that I was falling behind on did I find what it is I really wanted to do: Machining. I've always enjoyed the actual process of making things and not so much the process of mathing out the blueprints. But no one even mentioned this to me, when I initially spoke to many of the people I spoke with as a high school student about my interest in machining I received a lot of scoffs.

In fact now that I've found what I'm motivated in, I get a lot more scoffs from people who feel I'm not living up to potential. I'm studying environmental science because I've always found it an interesting field that I never attacked before because I was steered towards math because I was "talented" at it. I bought a mini lathe and small milling machine and have been learning the basics of machining. I'm starting my own business building custom projects. At the moment I'm starting it off with designing and building vintage styled tube guitar amps.

So what's my point in all this? Well school has mostly failed me. The stuff I work the hardest on learning and improving(machining and valve circuitry) will get me no where on a standardized test. They don't care about what I've spent most of my mental capacity to learn and as such would score me much lower than someone interested in the things the tests test. Likewise the smartest mathematician likely wouldn't have the foggiest clue on to safely much less accurately operate any of my machines.(not that they can't just that their training/knowledge base doesn't prepare them for it)

I'll leave you with a piece of advise I received from a traveling musician I worked sound for a few years ago. He told me "I'd take one hard working person of average intelligence over a dozen lazy geniuses any day of the week."

Work hard and show your value at whatever you do, those who value what you value will recognize you for it.

I apologize this post is a little longer than I originally intended.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

Chinese proverb, “Teachers open the doors, but you must enter yourself.” -

The OP had a set of metrics, SAT, ACT, etc scores to kick off the discussion.

Something to consider is the testing methodology and population. For example, here is Georgia it is common to use the comparison of Georgia SAT scores to other states to beat up political opponents. Georgia ranks near the bottom in SAT rankings.

A few years ago the president of SAT sent a well known famous letter (at least in Georgia) to the Governor or Superintendent of Education addressing this issue. Compared to other states, a relatively large percentage of students take the SAT. In some states only the "best and brightest" take the SAT and other areas a much larger and general population take it. This is a form of self-selection that causes distortions in ranking tables, and makes Georgia look comparatively bad.

Why low scores. Socioeconomic ? yes Ability and attitude of teachers ? yes performance management issues at the school district level ? yes parental and home issues ? yes cultural attitudes toward learning ? yes ( STEM and non-stem ) racial and demographic cultural attitudes ? yes

Every summer I have to stop and think about (a) why I participate in FIRST ?and (b) what is a metric of an acceptable outcome ? But, here is a small partial answer.

From an aggregate viewpoint, our team has regularly taken students with decent enough to pretty good 'overall backgrounds' and given them an opportunity to become engaged in something important, and then go to the next step, make really good career choices going into college, make really good decisions about how they view their future. We help students move from a very foggy view of their future into something defined, structured, tangible, exciting.

Our students had a meeting / briefing with the President of Georgia Tech and we were presenting our 'conversion' numbers to him. According to our math, if we could get the same 'conversion' rate in every school in Georgia, Georgia Tech would have to grow by 40 % or more. That is a huge growth number. Nationally the same would hold true for all high schools / universities.

Even then we are talking about harvesting a student population of 1 or 2 % of graduating seniors annually. What about the other 98 %

Get the students really excited about something (doesn't have to be STEM), reach out to the parent, to the community and get them involved, and we can make progress. The student/parent/community has to be a partner in education, not a passive recipient.

In about 1950 the average educational level of U.S. adults was about 8th grade. College graduates were very small portion of the population until after WW2 and the GI bill. 'Book' learning and college didn't happen for masses until the 2nd half of the 20th century.

National dropout rate are declining, but still way too high.

Cultural attitudes toward 'book' learning and STEM are improving ever so slightly.

Fix the culture - that helps the school move from being a day care / social welfare agency to a place of learning.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

While that may improve basic math capabilities, I don't see it helping to teach critical thinking, or encourage students to want to learn. Its a small drop in the bucket compared to the issues currently facing the educational system.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

Reported.

There hasn't been a team 23 since 1999 when they left for Battlebots.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

While this is probably not a legit post, I feel the need to comment anyhow.

On the contrary, I think we should be teaching students HOW to use calculators before they enter college. We've had them since the 1970s. It's fine to learn the fundamentals of arithmetic at an early age, but beyond that, it's useless to sit and do things manually when calculators are so readily available. I think people should be able to do simple computations and estimations in their heads, but there's no need to be doing long division on paper.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

I look at simple calculations as mental warmups. If your doing basic algebra, you should not be using a calculator. If your doing trig, you need a calculator. My main problem with calculators today is people's reliance on them. Sure, use them as a tool...but just as a tool. Not as a substitute. When it comes to tests, I use calculators for everything I can. When it comes to homework, I use calculators as little as I can. That is what I suggest to anyone that asks.(and some who don't). It just keeps your mind healthy and generally helps me work faster when it comes time for the test.

Jason

Note: Lets not turn this thread into a discussion of calculators. I'll be happy to have an in-depth discussion via PM to anyone that is interested.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

I have said this before but here goes... Calculators are just a tool. Tools make the work go faster so using calculators leaves you more time for studying other things. What we really need to do is find a good way to give students a reason to study and do well in school. Most of them have no inkling. I was an average student through high school, right in the middle of my graduating class. It wasn't until I was in college and paying most of my own way did I see a need to get what I paying for. When I realized two simple things, my grades shot up. 1. If I was paying out big bucks for school it was a wasted investment if I didn't try harder and do more and better studying. 2. If I was learning something I liked, I better do well at it or I wouldn't be able to do it everyday for the rest of my life. All during grade school and high school, I had no clue why I was being forced to study algebra, the French Revolution or English literature. At best I thought I would do well if I ever was on a game show.
However, I do know this. What worked for me, may not work for someone else. It might get the student thinking about what else might trigger him or her to study better, ignore the 'friend' who wants to lead them somewhere else, or piddle away the hours playing Warcraft or posting on Facebook. They need to learn that play can be a reward for working hard. While First does instill these ideals, it only hits a small audience. It does hit that group very effectively considering the high percentage of our students that are going off to higher education. I would guess that as many as half of our students enter the program with no thought of life after high school and end up excelling at university. We have to teach students that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and then turn it on for them. If there is one thing I have learned, there is relatively little difference in intelligence. The difference lies in some people being able to focus their energy in one direction at a time while the others focus in every direction or no direction.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

How can we make American students smarter? Make American students want to be smarter.

Isn't that why we're involved in FIRST?

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

Just like the old saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

I am not trying to discriminate anyone, but I believe we American students are spoiled. We live in the only super power left in this world. There are people out there that will literally KILL to get the opportunities we have in the States. Foreigners know how to pursue education like it's their only option. To most, it really is. Most of American students take it for granted, they see it as a right, not a privilege. Education should not be seen as a stepping stone to riches, but more as the liberation from ignorance.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

David I think I found a video that you would like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUMf7...ayer_embedded#!

There's a part in the beginning that shows how far the US fell in educational standings.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

Kids need to realize how technology affects everything in their own lives. If they see that progress in technology can make the world a better place for them to live,they may find a personal connection with the science world. Show them how technology improves things they use everyday, like video games, cars,computers, phones, ect. And also, we need to promote the same ideas that FIRST is trying to promote; the fact the science and technology IS fun.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

In the US education isn't a right or a privilege. It's mandatory.

One reason it seems that foreigners all take advantage, is because you don't see the others. Those that don't care stay home and no one notices or cares.

Re: How Can We Make American Students Smarter?
 

What I mean by privilege is the fact that the student was fortunate enough to be born in a nation with free accessible public education. There are too many that do not have that privilege. While it is true that some might be too lazy to go to school, but did you consider the fact that many who want to get an education can not. Many have to stay home and help. That is how my mom was, she could not get an education above high school because in a family of 7, to sustain, she had to work. And this was in Korea, a developing country. Imagine the undeveloped countries, they can't even THINK about going to school because it is not accessible.

My dad had to jump through many hurdles to even go to school. The nearest school near where my dad used to grow up is miles away and they lived on a farm in Korea. In Korea, the farms are not like farms here either; farmers are one of the poorest people in Korea. Yet, my dad managed to get a masters and start working toward a higher degree, but the degrees don't matter here in the States. He works in construction now, to pay for my education. I myself have to jump many hurdles to get an education here in the states. The tuition here is ridiculous, I have to get a job to even afford a public state school's tuition.

This is why I am so critical about education. A lot of people I know do not understand education. They see it as this thing that you "have" to go get. But like I said, education is liberation from ignorance. And I can't believe this nation is even functioning. 55% of Engineering PhDs are from abroad, 45% of all PhDs are from abroad. The lower and secondary education system here is ridiculous; it is terrible. To have a democracy, you need an educated population. Most of the population gobbles up the propaganda that the media and the politicians put up. I mean LOOK! There is an educated man running for president who is very rational. Ron Paul gets less media attention than Donald Trump or Sarah Palin gets. It is propaganda, he challenges the status quo.


I am very sorry for the long, somewhat offensive to some, rant. But this is how I feel. If we do not get this country running straight, I don't know what would happen.