NASA Grants
 

I've got some confusion about the 2012 NASA grants; hopefully someone here can shed some light.

Under Regional Challenge Grants, the site says (emphasis mine)

It goes on to say None of these four events are in their first year; additionally, no first-year events show up on the list when a veteran team applies for the grant.

It seems clear to me in the first passage that NASA intends to support the first-year events by assisting veteran teams to participate. However, in the grant itself, these events are not supported. Why the discrepancy?

Re: NASA Grants
 

I think it's quite unlikely, but I would hope NASA would sponsor our trip to Montreal. Something tells me that won't happen though. :P

Re: NASA Grants
 

Severely unlikely; if NASA doesn't support non-US teams, I can't see them supporting non-US events.

Re: NASA Grants
 

Did anyone see anything about MAR/FiM teams and the NASA grant yet?

Re: NASA Grants
 

I may have answered my own question - at the top it says Maybe when they open it up to all teams at some later date, the options will be changed to reflect their intentions.

Pardon me whilst I untwist my knickers.

Re: NASA Grants
 

Do 2nd year NASA teams have to attend the same event they attended in their rookie year?

The grant information currently says, "Second-year funding is available ONLY to those teams that received a "rookie year sponsorship" from NASA for the SAME event during the 2010 competition season.”

Is this the standard that teams are required to attend the same event? Since I've never had a 2nd year team before, I have never looked carefully at this requirement.

Re: NASA Grants
 

At some point it also mentions a NASA-sponsored event. Maybe some aren't supported by NASA.

I'm more concerned with the extra requirements for 2nd-year teams: you need at least $5000 in other sponsorships/funding, and you must mentor a rookie team. We have NASA money left over from last year... does that count?

Re: NASA Grants
 

NO, absolutely not.... The intent is that rookie teams learn how to become self sustaining.

Rookies are to pursue other funding sources and learn how to exist without NASA.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach them to fish, and they can feed themselves for life.

Re: NASA Grants
 

I'm not the expert on this rule but it seems the intent is that rookie / 2nd year teams go to the SAME event in consecutive years.
.

Re: NASA Grants
 

I just don't recall this in prior years. I sent NASA an email to ask for clarification. The team did not go to a NASA event last year and is not planning to go to a NASA event this year, so I don't see why it should matter that they need to accommodate their school's schedule for possible travel.

Re: NASA Grants
 

This is the first year for the The South Florida Regional (Miami). The Orlando Regional has been held for years as the only Regional in Florida. Now we have 2.

Re: NASA Grants
 

There are NASA regionals, and non-NASA regionals. That is probably a totally different issue then the rule discussed above.

A rookie team can go to any regional, but it seems the 'SAME' rule requires them to go to the same regional twice, irrespective of it being a NASA regional.

Ed

Re: NASA Grants
 

Not to add to the ball of confusion, but it seems like second-year teams are required to mentor a rookie team to receive a grant, but veterans aren't? And why is NASA giving 30 sponsorships to old regionals, and 20 to a transplanted regional? CVR and QCR (I'll go off on a limb and say Montreal won't see any regional challenge grants) aren't getting these? I guess Utah should get them if they are the only regional sponsored by NASA, but none of the teams currently registered are rookies or 2nd-years there. DC has 0 rookies, and NCR only has 2.

Our team was looking to NCR or QCR depending on the acquisition of this grant... It looks like we'll try to go to NCR BECAUSE of the grant, not because we couldn't get it for QCR...

What is going on?

Re: NASA Grants
 

The "only open to NASA house teams" was posted in error and has since been removed. The grant application is open to everyone.

Re: NASA Grants
 

Have any teams (rookie or otherwise) been denied the NASA grant?

Re: NASA Grants
 

Got a definitive answer via email from NASA:
I guess that's just the way it is. Not quite the level of support given in 2011, but support nonetheless.
Good luck to all applying teams.

Re: NASA Grants
 

I helped mentor a rookie team last year that applied and was turned down for a NASA grant.

Re: NASA Grants
 

Do you mean this year?

Of course teams have been denied grants in past years. Nothing has been reviewed yet this year though.

Re: NASA Grants
 

We were just curious as we're (Katie and I) working with a rookie team this year and hadn't heard of anyone not getting it (never asked though).

Re: NASA Grants
 

The answer (already provided) is yes. Teams can be rejected in a number of ways, but there is one in particular that teams should never allow to happen:

This application has a lot of REQUIRED criteria attached to it - before, during, and AFTER the grant application process. Miss one, and you will NOT be approved, regardless of how deserving your team is of support. Miss any of the criteria after you receive a grant, and you will NOT be permitted to reapply. It's the government. They're like that.

Read the application directions fully. Comply with all requirements. Dot every "i" and cross every "t". If not, it doesn't matter how well written your application is and how worthy your team is - you will be denied!

Re: NASA Grants
 

Related aside for those applying ...
Here's a paper that was published to help applying teams in 2009 and beyond:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2167

There is some outdated/superseded info when comparing to the 2012 criteria, but much of it still applies.

Best wishes to all.

Re: NASA Grants
 

Is that really necessary?

Re: NASA Grants
 

Yes.

Have you been to the DMV? Filled out a tax return (or tried to)? It's a bureaucracy (I wouldn't even want to know the red tape hoops people have to jump through to even get the grant money allocated and approved for distribution to FIRST teams), and with a bureaucracy comes a lot of added rules and requirements - many of them make sense, some might make you scratch your head, but they are there, nonetheless, and applicants better take them seriously.

This is not like some school essay for which you can plead for a time extension, extra credit opportunities, or negotiate for a higher grade even though you turned in incomplete work.

The fact that a significant number of veteran teams receive Program Growth grants at all (as was the case last year anyway - and we were one of the veteran recipients) is evidence that 1st and 2nd year teams are failing to snag all the opportunities meant primarily for them - and at least part of that reality can certainly be attributed to some teams' failure to follow the detailed application guidelines (other factors would be not enough teams applying, and legit applicants rejected based on the content of their submission).

Re: NASA Grants
 

For what it's worth (not in reply to above): We received a 2nd year grant last year, our third year. You will note as you carefully read the terms that if grants are available, you may receive a Veteran grant even if it is past your second year provided none of the extras are taken and you have followed every rule and application requirement to the letter.

May not be likely, but you never get what you don't ask for.

Re: NASA Grants
 

We've received a NASA grand 2 of 3 times we were not eligible for it. 2010 being the only year we didn't get it (we didn't have a documented loss of a sponsor that large, pretty much a dealbreaker that year).

Re: NASA Grants
 

I would encourage any team to apply regardless of how long you've been doing it.
Whether its 100% essential that you receive it in order for you to participate in 2012 or not, I'm sure every team could use the support as regional registration expenses are quite hefty.
The mere fact that every 1st or 2nd year team either dont apply or dont receive it, is a missed opportunity that would have allowed a team to utilize their other funding for other much needed expenses.
We intend to apply and our team has received it 4 times in 5 tries over the years.

Re: NASA Grants
 

Yes they have. I'm not speaking for NASA, I'm not privy to there information, but I can tell you that I have seen applications that didn't answer the questions they asked. And the applicants didn't receive the grants.

It didn't take a NASA rocket scientist to figure out they were not going to get the grant.

It is worth studying the questions, and then stepping back and understanding why they are asking the question. If a team can directly answer the question and assure NASA that they will be a successful team, then the likelihood of having a successful grant application will go up significantly.

To directly answer your question: YES - teams have been denied a grant.

Re: NASA Grants
 

I think the tl;dr version of this thread is that if you put effort into your team and into the grant application, you can somewhat count on being awarded a grant if available.

Re: NASA Grants
 

That's a pretty hefty assumption. Do your best, hope for the best would be my take on it.

Re: NASA Grants
 

Sorry, I'll edit, I meant more of a "do everything you can to try for it" sort of post.