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-   -   [BB] Something to end your week (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97684)

Grim Tuesday 07-10-2011 20:39
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
I think the most interesting thing here is not what we can do with the kinect, but we we can't. It seems clear that only one person on the alliance can use it, and that person will most likely be the human player, or robocoach a la 2008. This means that there will be two other human players doing something else. Now we just need to figure out what!

apalrd 07-10-2011 21:14
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
To put to rest any myths you guys are circulating, I have data obtained from the beta test information and scrolling through the 2012 LV code.

-The Kinect has a "server" application (written in C#) which communicates with the driver station and Kinect. I haven't looked at the server yet. I do know that the default Dashboard does apparently optionally show Kinect analysis data instead of the camera image.
-The Kinect feeds "virtual joysticks (a few analog axis relating to skeletal angles of arms and buttons relating to hand/head motions) to the robot, which in LV show up as a 5th joystick (Kinect1 and Kinect2, although Start Communication only shows Kinect1 as being populated with data). The actual gesture analysis can be done on the robot end using this data. The user can also request the raw skeletal data (20 points of x-y-z).
-The beta test information instructs us to drive the robot using this joystick. I can only see this going VERY BADLY and hope teams do not attempt to do this in competition. There are a bunch of warnings about safety and learning to use this interface.
-There is no information yet to suggest this is required. There are still 4 USB joystick inputs in addition to the Kinect data.

-We are now using LV 2011. I hope I haven't said too much.

Tom Line 07-10-2011 21:55
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by apalrd (Post 1080312)
To put to rest any myths you guys are circulating, I have data obtained from the beta test information and scrolling through the 2012 LV code.

-The Kinect has a "server" application (written in C#) which communicates with the driver station and Kinect. I haven't looked at the server yet. I do know that the default Dashboard does apparently optionally show Kinect analysis data instead of the camera image.
-The Kinect feeds "virtual joysticks (a few analog axis relating to skeletal angles of arms and buttons relating to hand/head motions) to the robot, which in LV show up as a 5th joystick (Kinect1 and Kinect2, although Start Communication only shows Kinect1 as being populated with data). The actual gesture analysis can be done on the robot end using this data. The user can also request the raw skeletal data (20 points of x-y-z).
-The beta test information instructs us to drive the robot using this joystick. I can only see this going VERY BADLY and hope teams do not attempt to do this in competition. There are a bunch of warnings about safety and learning to use this interface.
-There is no information yet to suggest this is required. There are still 4 USB joystick inputs in addition to the Kinect data.

-We are now using LV 2011. I hope I haven't said too much.
Nope, you haven't. We can talk all about what's going in beta - in fact that's what we're all supposed to do. You can even take screenshots of working code, demoing, etc. Just don't post the documentation, and always add that little "this is only beta, your mileage may vary" addendum. Good to see you guys got accepted!

Phyrxes 07-10-2011 22:47
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Thanks for posting the beta information, now to find out how many of my students have a kinect so my software guys can start playing with it.

s_forbes 07-10-2011 22:49
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
For some reason I'm reminded of an Aim High match we were in where the robots all took off before the match started and drove uncontrollably across the field into walls. This is going to be fun. :)

Tom I 07-10-2011 23:05
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by s_forbes (Post 1080319)
For some reason I'm reminded of an Aim High match we were in where the robots all took off before the match started and drove uncontrollably across the field into walls. This is going to be fun. :)
If that's the case, I suggest making spare parts of... well, pretty much everything!

Andrew Schreiber 07-10-2011 23:14
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line (Post 1080315)
Nope, you haven't. We can talk all about what's going in beta - in fact that's what we're all supposed to do. You can even take screenshots of working code, demoing, etc. Just don't post the documentation, and always add that little "this is only beta, your mileage may vary" addendum. Good to see you guys got accepted!
Andrew Schreiber likes this.

Seriously, this is how things should be.

kenavt 08-10-2011 00:02
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line (Post 1080315)
Nope, you haven't. We can talk all about what's going in beta - in fact that's what we're all supposed to do. You can even take screenshots of working code, demoing, etc. Just don't post the documentation, and always add that little "this is only beta, your mileage may vary" addendum. Good to see you guys got accepted!
This is all terrific, but if you don't mind me asking: What's wrong with posting the documentation? I'm sure there's a reason I'm missing.

rachelholladay 08-10-2011 00:03
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by akoscielski3 (Post 1080282)
Do you know who shipped it? Was it FedEx?
FedEx delivered it this morning.

Everyone one our our beta test team is both excited for such new software and nervous as to how difficult it might be to implement it. Time will tell. Based on previous FIRST experience using the Kinect probably wont be mandatory (like the Cypress Board from Beta Testing in 2009) but will greatly help. So possibly something with the endgame? Im also going to take a gander that the Kinect will be part of the field, where teams wouldnt be responsible for bringing their own and then setting it up and connecting it to the FMS everytime, as that could prove buggy. Ive done field reset many times and any way they do it seems like it will present a challenge to the field crew.

MagiChau 08-10-2011 00:34
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom I (Post 1080320)
If that's the case, I suggest making spare parts of... well, pretty much everything!
Double zip-tie everything so at least nothing falls out causing a penalty. :eek:

I am excited to see what will happen with the Kinect. I will be looking into available information before kickoff but unsure if I and our team can invest the time during the season into making something of our own considering our current programming plans. Does sound like a very fun tool to have work though.

EricH 08-10-2011 00:42
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavt (Post 1080331)
This is all terrific, but if you don't mind me asking: What's wrong with posting the documentation? I'm sure there's a reason I'm missing.
It's a really simple reason, too:

You post the documentation, and it happens to have a bug/error/similar nuisance. Maybe it's caught and corrected, maybe not.

4 months later (you know, middle/end of build), some other team finds that documentation that you posted, with the bug, and follows the directions exactly--despite the fact that a) it's beta documentation and b) the bug has been fixed and the fix posted (elsewhere).

Could it happen? Yes. Is it likely to happen? Well, if the documentation isn't published, it sure isn't likely!

PayneTrain 08-10-2011 08:49
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Am I under the impression that every team is getting a FRC II cRIO in their kit this year?

Steven Donow 08-10-2011 08:49
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1080348)
Am I under the impression that every team is getting a FRC II cRIO in their kit this year?
You are, and the video does imply that, but I believe that's not the case; however looking at dates Bill posted a few weeks ago, they should be available for order by now.

rsisk 08-10-2011 10:26
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
The question of the cRIO II was cleared up someplace official, sorry I don't have a link. It will only be in the rookie kits. Veterans have the opportunity to pick up a low cost version before some deadline.

Andrew Lawrence 08-10-2011 10:32
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsisk (Post 1080356)
The question of the cRIO II was cleared up someplace official, sorry I don't have a link. It will only be in the rookie kits. Veterans have the opportunity to pick up a low cost version before some deadline.
My memory is horrible. Aside from being lighter, what are the advantages of the cRIO 2?


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