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-   -   [BB] Something to end your week (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97684)

slijin 10-10-2011 22:07
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by apalrd (Post 1080595)
To add to the C#/Java, they appear to me to be VERY similar syntaxically, with the differences primarily in the library code.

(I've never been a fan of either language, but that's probably because my embedded programming background is used to working without classes and dynamic memory allocation, and I believe that for highly iterative, deterministic systems such as FRC robots, classes and event-driven systems are probably unnecessary and not always helpful).

I'm a fan of the Kinect as a useful cheap robot sensor. However, its current implementation is not as a useful robot sensor, but as an unuseful driver station sensor. If it were to be on the robot end, it would be infinitely more useful than it is right now. I see many teams attempting to drive their robots with the Kinect, which to me is dangerous for everyone involved.

I'll add these words of advice to everyone
DO NOT TRY TO DRIVE YOUR ROBOT WITH A KINECT. ITS A BAD IDEA. DON'T DO IT.


Now imagine that on a FRC field.

RoboMaster 10-10-2011 22:15
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Yep, I can see that happening.

This delta gripper robot would be a great idea for Kinect, except that this is only about how good it would get in FRC:

http://vimeo.com/20594424

Chris is me 10-10-2011 22:26
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Direct control is not a good idea, but imagine it like hybrid in 2008. Use it to send signals to the robot.

Tommy F. 10-10-2011 22:58
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
My friends were thinking about how cool it would be if we could control our robot's arm with an actual arm.

Seems like it could actually happen, even though it might be a pretty bad idea...

Billfred 10-10-2011 23:21
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 1080601)
Direct control is not a good idea, but imagine it like hybrid in 2008. Use it to send signals to the robot.
This is what it's starting to sound like to me.

My next question as someone whose Kinect experience is limited to the bowling demo at Best Buy: How many distinct commands (in the sense of Hybrid Mode of 2008) could a team realistically send to a robot?

Jared Russell 10-10-2011 23:23
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
(Assuming everything works as it is supposed to...)

Team 341 will be demonstrating our 2011 robot controlled via Kinect during the lunch break at Ramp Riot on November 12. Expect to see something that looks a little like an air traffic controller trying to land a tube onto the scoring rack...

We will record as well as webcast the results.

More details to come.

Andrew Lawrence 10-10-2011 23:24
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1080606)
This is what it's starting to sound like to me.

My next question as someone whose Kinect experience is limited to the bowling demo at Best Buy: How many distinct commands (in the sense of Hybrid Mode of 2008) could a team realistically send to a robot?
The question isn't just what commands are available, but what commands can we make ourselves, if a hybrid-like mode is to be this year?

Also, will it be required, or optional?

Jared Russell 10-10-2011 23:30
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1080609)
The question isn't just what commands are available, but what commands can we make ourselves, if a hybrid-like mode is to be this year?

Also, will it be required, or optional?
I have no idea about rules in 2012, but I do know that there is a selection of gestures already "built-in", as well as the ability to use the Kinect SDK to define your own gestures. See the FAQ here: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/kinect

Aren_Hill 11-10-2011 10:43
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7h0m54 (Post 1080604)
My friends were thinking about how cool it would be if we could control our robot's arm with an actual arm.

Seems like it could actually happen, even though it might be a pretty bad idea...
I much prefer the direct method of such control

RoboMaster 11-10-2011 19:28
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1080606)
This is what it's starting to sound like to me.

My next question as someone whose Kinect experience is limited to the bowling demo at Best Buy: How many distinct commands (in the sense of Hybrid Mode of 2008) could a team realistically send to a robot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by apalrd (Post 1080312)
-The Kinect feeds "virtual joysticks (a few analog axis relating to skeletal angles of arms and buttons relating to hand/head motions) to the robot, which in LV show up as a 5th joystick (Kinect1 and Kinect2. ... The actual gesture analysis can be done on the robot end using this data. The user can also request the raw skeletal data (20 points of x-y-z).
Getting it as a whole joystick sounds like a lot of data. Some gestures are pre-programed somehow too. From the above it sounds like you could do some simple gestures like, if the y - coordinate of the hand is higher than the y coordinate of the head, the person must be raising their hand, so do something (simple boolean out subtraction operation). But maybe Jump is pre programmed somehow, because that would be a little harder.

I'm wondering if they will limit the output of the Kinect somehow during Hybrid/autonomous, just like the IR sensor in 2008 was limited.

Karibou 11-10-2011 19:55
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7h0m54 (Post 1080604)
My friends were thinking about how cool it would be if we could control our robot's arm with an actual arm.

Seems like it could actually happen, even though it might be a pretty bad idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu6JcAjJ60Y
Bad video, but you can still see the human and the arm on the robot moving in sync. It's pretty much the same thing that Aren posted a picture of, but his picture looks prettier...

nightpool 14-10-2011 22:22
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Has anyone seen this youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlKcgtABcqk)? It's of a control solution in which one hand is using a Xbox controller and controlling movement and the other is moving around and controlling rotation. seems to work well, especially as he becomes more used to it as the video goes on and his motions seem to be more natural.

RoboMaster 14-10-2011 22:31
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Yep, that is really innovative. One of the smartest gaming things I've seen for the Kinect, IMO.

I'm wondering how well it would work in FRC, though. With a video game, the computer gives very quick and direct feedback that is easy to see and work with, especially with a first person view. Not exactly the case in FRC when the robots are big and clunky, and you're looking at it from a fixed angle that takes getting used to. FRC is also extremely tense and fast, and you have to think about strategy too. Making big-ish arm movements might make thinking harder.

However, like you said, it might be very natural, depending on what you're controlling.

DavisC 22-10-2011 13:34
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
The 1 person hybrid looks do-able. just would probable make it easier if you had a controller meant for 1 hand like the Nitendo Wii controllers (even if you dont use its built in motion detection)

P.J. 22-10-2011 14:09
Re: [BB] Something to end your week
 
Did anybody notice that he spelled "peek" wrong? He spelled it as "peak," meaning the top of something instead of "peek" like to look at something.

(I didn't actually look up the definitions, hence the non fancy wording)


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