paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Thread created automatically to discuss a document in CD-Media.

FRC cRIO II by Mark McLeod

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Sorry, blew the original thread away by mis-clicking. I didn't think regular users had the power to do that, so I was only paying half attention.

I was able to recover the original posts from cache and I've recreated them here.
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07-16-2011 08:07 PM
iblis432

if it only has 1 ethernet port, what does this mean for teams who utilize the camera?


07-16-2011 09:38 PM
stevend1994

IIRC you can run a camera directly through the wireless bridge.


07-16-2011 09:38 PM
PAR_WIG1350

I would imagine one would access the camera through the D-Link's switch (it's just another device on the same network).


07-16-2011 09:49 PM
Tristan Lall

There's a good chance the radio supplied in the 2012 kit will be some sort of router with a switch built in. (Has the model been confirmed by FIRST or the controls developers?)

Looks like the new cRIO is an improvement all around, except (arguably) for one little thing. The new, much more convenient power specification means that someone is going to hook it up to 12 V unregulated, and then have it die on them during a match as their battery drains. (Expect this to be verified at inspection, but some cases always slip by.)

One solution might be a tiny little notice on the front of the cRIO with an arrow in the general direction of the power connector (they're already doing custom silkscreening for the FIRST logo, or a label): "Unless otherwise allowed by FRC rules, connect to 24 V regulated DC power at 4-pin connector on power distribution board (A003206)."

Similarly, the front of the power distribution board also has custom silkscreening. It wouldn't hurt to put arrows to the headers indicating "Robot Radio", "Robot Controller" and "Auxiliary (see FRC rules)" for the camera power. This is a constant issue at inspection, and would benefit a lot from some simple error-proofing.


07-16-2011 11:02 PM
apalrd

Wow. Those 0.63 pounds are really the best feature of the new cRio.



07-16-2011 11:55 PM
AdamHeard

I hope they choose digital sidecar for the fourth channel.... otherwise teams will be pretty unhappy when they try to use more than 10 unique motors.



07-17-2011 01:11 AM
Tristan Lall

I hope they can find a way to let teams select the desired modules (and order) when re-imaging it. (Even better would be to get it to detect and recognize modules on the fly, but that might be asking a bit much of the FPGA.)


07-17-2011 01:38 AM
AdamHeard

Correct, that would be a better plan.


07-17-2011 08:18 AM
jtdowney

This year we had a switch combined with a bridge/AP, which was a good mix of device (AP for practice, bridge for field). There is no real need for router functionality.

However I am hoping we don't see too much more of the current D-Link device given all the trouble this year, the long time to update in the WPA line, and ultimately longer times to connect to the field. I've heard rumors of FRC wanting to get the rights to the 2009 Linksys gaming adapters in order to arrange a FRC specific product.

Given the cRIO 2 has only one ethernet port, and the arrival of other ethernet devices like the 2CAN, it is clear we will probably continue to use a switch of some sort on board.


07-17-2011 09:15 AM
Gdeaver

A USB Host port would have been nice. Some of the things we are playing with for next year would be easier with USB support.



07-17-2011 11:41 AM
Jared341

Operation down to 9V is actually a huge feature of the cRIO2, IMO. Various teams ran into cRIO resets caused by momentary low supply voltages at some point or another in 2011 due to a combination of heavy current draw and, in some cases, RS775 motor case shorts. Operating all the way down to 9V will help a great deal in these cases.



07-18-2011 11:37 AM
Tom Line

The loss of the no-app dip switch is troublesome. FRC Labview has well documented issues downloading files when the Crio is already running something. It's common to have to try several times to get it download correctly (lost connection etc).

A common fix to this was to flip the No-App dip switch so you could boot without the crio running the files.

Having to open the imaging tool to access virtual dip switches while having connectivity problems with the Crio is not a good solution at all.

I have a hate/hate relationship with the tiny recessed reset switches, so trying to add the no-app boot solution to the reset button on the Crio is a bit of a non-starter as well: recessed reset buttons like that get destroyed very quickly by over-zealous folks with sharp things.


07-18-2011 01:00 PM
apalrd

I would be happy if they just fixed the root cause of the problem instead of working around it with the no-app switch, something they should have done back when the problem was first found.


07-19-2011 02:41 PM
purpleandplasma

Do you know when we can buy the cRIO II, and if there is a limit to how many you can buy?


07-19-2011 03:11 PM
Mark McLeod

This upcoming 2012 season, as a special introductory offer, teams will be able to purchase (either/or/both)

• (1) cRIO FRC II chassis for ~$300
• (1) cRIO FRC II chassis with 3 modules for ~$550

I speculate that it's possible NI will allow additional purchases over and above at a more expensive educational price, but no one has said anything about that or what that increased price might be.

No definitive date has been announced for the FRC II release, just "this winter." (originally was "this Fall", but Bill probably thought it through...)
Bill's Blog has also said they are still working on developing the 2012 control system and plans for Fall Beta Test teams to try it out.

We need more than simply the purchase of the cRIO FRC II hardware.
We will need a workable FRC image and the updated cRIO Imaging Tool that handles it before it's of much use to us.

I imagine that the hardware, tools and image will first have a limited release to the Beta Teams, before a general release to the rest of the FRC public.

Imaginary Timeline:

1. Beta Team applications
2. Beta Team selection
3. Distribution of beta hardware/software
4. Period of Beta testing errors/results/rework and retesting.
5. Release to the general public

At a guess I wouldn't depend on the average team being able to use a new cRIO FRC II any earlier than December...


07-20-2011 10:12 AM
Mark McLeod

How about a chart like this one to demonstrate the network connections to the new (and old) cRIO?



09-04-2011 11:04 AM
rjbarra

It looks like the Camera is going to be on the same TCP/IP network. Maybe this years game we will have the opportunity to use a live Video feed.



09-04-2011 12:08 PM
jtdowney

With the D-Link bridge/switch you were able to have the camera on the 10.0.0.0/8 subnet this past year.


09-19-2011 01:03 PM
FrankJ

Go here to for directions on how to configure the camera to run on the same subnet as your robot. This will allow you to plug the camera into the robots router.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

I got an estimated delivery date of November 23 when I ordered ours just now.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Where can the new cRIO be ordered? I haven't been able to find it.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

A post thread within a thread? Threadception!

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Call (866) 511-6285 from 1 p.m. to 7 p.m. Central Time to:

• Purchase extra cRIOs for your team

It's posted in the middle of this NI page although the wording is a week or two out of date.
Your team's Main/Alternate TIMS Contact will have to order it. They know who he or she is.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Thanks, I'll call tomorrow. Was the price $300 as indicated?

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

• $525 for (1) cRIO FRC II + (3) I/O modules (PN 780405-02)
• $285 for (1) cRIO FRC II chassis alone (PN 780406-02)

Plus shipping ($24 for TX to NY)
Plus Tax

Country of origin: Hungary
Extended Warranty: Ireland

You can order one of each (so you can get two cRIOs if you want), but I think they may have to be ordered at the same time, not one now and another a month from now when you change your mind.

Even if you order only one, ask the agent about that and let people know what the deal is here. I forget to confirm if they had to be ordered at the same time.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Bill's Blog of August 23, 2011 gives all the information necessary for a veteran team wanting to use their 2012 cRIO discount.

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2011...-tomorrow.html

There was apparently some confusion in the NI sales office about the warranty. Some orders were automatically having a few hundred dollars' worth of extended warranty added. We called back to check on that, and they had already corrected the order to remove the additional charges.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Our new toys arrived a bit earlier than expected.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Mark, I'm guessing those were purchased through Ni/FIRST? Or are they beta test models...

We should really place our order.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Mine arrived as well today. Not a Beta test purchase, just a regular team purchase.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Ours were purchases as well.

They appear to have conformal coatings, but do not come with protective gaskets.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

I am looking for specs on them, sizes? of the CRIO,

if someone could link me to a file that explains how the CRIO works overall that would be awesome...


Thanks

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Any problems so far? Has anyone used it yet? Are there any noticeable advantages/disadvantages? If so, what?

Thanks!

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

We are a rookie team and we have the crio 2 we have yellow flashing lights on our jaguar motors and we don't know what is wrong if you or anyone on the thread can help it would be appreciated

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Yellow flashing lights on the Jaguar speed controllers means they are not receiving a PWM command signal. Lots of reasons this could be:

• Did you image the cRIO with the imaging tool?
• Did you then download code?
• Does the code activate the PWM you have your motors connected to?
• Did you connect to the cRIO from a laptop running the Driver Station (are the connection status lights red or green)?
• Did you Enable the robot from the Driver Station?
• Are the PWM cables connected in the proper orientation?
• Is the Digital Sidecar powered properly (all three power LEDs are bright green)?
• Is the cRIO Digital module in slot #2?

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Adding to Mark's list.

Is the DB37 cable correct? Some in the kit were built incorrectly. See http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default...structions.pdf

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

The only thing we arnt sure of is If the code activates the pwm because we are running the tutorial but the robot signal light on the digital sidecar is off

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

What language are you using, and which tutorial did you pick?

Did you check the ribbon cable as Joe suggested?
A good cable should be able to plug into itself without requiring a twist in the cable to do so.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

THANK YOU VERY MUCH that was exactly the problem (we hope) we a currently flipping the female part on the DB37

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Did anybody ever find out if you could use the fourth slot as an additional digital sidecar module?

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

You can use it for any of the 3 modules. The module you insert will be detected at power-up.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

I can not access the digital soft switches for the cRIO in the new imager, does anyone have any suggestions? I am using the new cRIO II
I am using the crossover cable, the imager gave a new name to he cRIO II and the IP address alright, but I can not upload an image.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

What happens when you try?

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

What is the specific error? Can you quote it exactly here?

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Unable to complete operation because of unexpected error:
Error -2147220304 occurred at nisyscfg.lvlib:Restart.vi:1

Possible reason(s):

NI System Configuration: (Hex 0x800404B0) Timeout while waiting for reboot. System is offline.


Complete call chain:
nisyscfg.lvlib:Restart.vi:1
ConfigUtility.lvlib:2012_FormatSystem.vi
ConfigUtility.lvlib:ReImageTarget.vi
ConfigUtility.lvlib:Dialog.vi

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

The cRIO II has the IP address and name, but when I select the option to image it, it does not allow me to. It gets halfway through the formatting process, and it displays the above ^ error code.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Make sure your computer's netmask is set to 255.255.255.0 and that you have disabled (by right clicking and selecting "Disable") any adapters other than the one being used to connect to the cRIO.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

I have done that, and it still does that.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

I've seen that error go away when all other NICs get Disabled.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Are you certain? You might have a FireWire or VPN "network adapter" enabled. What does the result of the ipconfig command show you? Copy it here so we can check it for anything out of the ordinary.

You might also have a Windows firewall enabled. Shut anything like that off.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

That worked! Thanks for the help, it works great now.

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

When we open the 2012 Imaging tool our Laptop can't find our new cRIO FRC II. Any Suggestions?

Re: paper: FRC cRIO II
 

Nevermind, we figured it out it was the laptop firewalls!