Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Really? I drove a 2007 G6 for about a year and a half before I had to leave it at home to come up to college, and had no problems with it (and I drove it a lot). It was in New York before I got it. The only issue that I had electrical-wise was the battery spontaneously dying in early August...but I think that was because the lights may have been left on. The G6 was a great car: easy handling, CD player, powered locks and windows. I might buy it off my parents if I get a job within the next few years.

Just be warned, mine came with no ABS and no key fob. Don't just assume that ABS is standard on older cars, because apparently it's not.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I'm sure there's a good reason for ABS, but I don't know what that could be....

then again I've been driving old cars and trucks with manual drum brakes for a long time, and mostly I don't run into things, because I keep some room between me and the vehicle ahead. Although I did run into a garage door with an ABS equipped truck, the truck didn't believe that I wanted to stop, no matter how hard I pushed on the brake pedal, it knew I wanted the wheels to keep turning.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Let's do the math.
Assumptions: 10,000 miles a year, $4 a gallon for gas
18 MPG = 555 g = $2222
28 MPG = 357 g = $1428
So the difference between a quite bad car and a better-than-average car is about $800 a year. Seems like a lot, but it's really not.
Paying attention, reasonable following distances and driver skill nearly obviate the need for ABS. Ditto other driving assistance systems.

But there is no accounting for some cases: Deer (plural) at night out of nowhere, no ABS and I hit one, but with ABS I steer right between two and avoid contact. True story. I have the brown pants to prove it.

The bottom line is, a car with ABS can be stopped almost as short as the very best drivers on the planet, but by any idiot who can stomp on the brakes. This was, by the way, the first step to the self-driving car.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Ohio weather?

By the way, I drove Pontiac Grand Prix's with 3.8L V6 engines from from 1997-2006 (and a V8 GXP from 2006-2008). They were very reliable, comfortable, and good in the snow. Not sure how anything that vintage would function nowadays, but they were great when I had them.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Or Michigan weather, or areas with lots of hills+snow+ice. There's a reason I didn't ask to bring it with me up to the UP.

No ABS isn't horrible, but I definitely liked having it in my mom's car during the few times I had to take it to work during the winter due there being way too much snow. It takes getting used to, and I it guess falls under "personal preference."

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Similar math could be done to show the difference in safety of an average car to a small truck.(I'm approximating the two vehicles based on your mpg ratings). Yes, there can be a difference in safety just like there is a difference in cost. There is always a level of danger on the roads. It is up to the individual to decide what the trade-off should be. Unless your going to buy a really big vehicle, your prob not going to be a whole lot safer then the standard to large car size. Also, if you buy too big of a vehicle and are not a safe driver...be aware that the added safety your buying is lowering the safety to those around you. Just keep others in mind when determining "safe".

Jason

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

And it will never be anywhere near as good looking as original paint. I would never repaint a car that did not have serious issues with its original paint.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Full disclosure: I work for a Buick-GMC-Cadillac dealership that had a Pontiac franchise until that division's closure, and own a 2009 Pontiac Vibe myself.

While I can't comment on the older Pontiacs (not enough experience), the final lineup from Pontiac should actually be a pretty good value at this point. Pontiac (as well as the also-departed Saturn) shared platforms across the entire GM lineup*--the Pontiac G6 and Saturn Aura, for example, share a number of components with the Chevrolet Malibu--which makes parts and service generally pretty easy to acquire. More useful to you: those two brands seem to have suffered significantly more depreciation compared to other GM models still in production. If you're going to drive it a long time, it probably won't matter to you.

*There are exceptions: the Saturn Astra was only imported for one year, the Pontiac Vibe shares its underpinnings with the Toyota Matrix (and the 2009-2010 models are decidedly not cheap on parts), the Pontiac GTO was only imported in small numbers, and the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky both went out of production together. I doubt Solstice, Sky, or GTO will be on your radar, though.

As for Kara's G6 story: many of the base G6 models (especially the 1SV "Value Leader" ones) lacked things like ABS, keyless entry, and XM radio. If you have a question on the equipment a car comes with, you can often find out by calling a local dealer; for example, GM dealers can pull up build information on just about anything made in the past decade or so online.

As with any purchase with this many zeros on the check, do your homework! I would also encourage you to take any potential purchase to a trusted mechanic for a proper inspection, and getting a vehicle history report certainly never hurts. You'll also want to see the title, to ensure there are no liens on the vehicle from banks. (If you buy the car and there's a lien on it, you're on the hook for paying off the loan!)

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Barring a component failure, in all likelihood it wouldn't have helped. The ABS detects the point at which your wheels will skid (where your braking force is limited by the friction of tires on road, instead of the friction of brakes on discs), and disengages the brakes momentarily to avoid that. In other words, it's finding the optimum conditions for maximum braking, and trying to keep the vehicle there. (This is the same principle as a PID loop on a FIRST robot's drivetrain, for those who are familiar with that technology.)

Incidentally, some trucks only have ABS on the rear wheels (individually or together). I suspect this layout was intended to avoid the lightly-loaded rear end of the truck from skidding, and destabilizing the vehicle. You may not have even had ABS on the brakes that were doing the most work (the front ones).

There's a common fallacy that ABS is less effective than ordinary manual braking. Implicit in that assumption is that a driver can maintain the car at the braking threshold continuously, without briefly over- or undershooting that point like ABS will do. Of course, it's very unlikely that a randomly selected driver will be able to do that at all. And even a well-trained driver will be unable to do it with anything approaching the repeatability and consistency of an ordinary ABS system, especially under changing dynamic conditions.

The other nice thing about ABS is that by preventing skidding, the steering still works.

And even if the technical rationale is unimpressive, there's always the appeal to authority: why would the engineers who design planes and F1 cars implement ABS if it wasn't useful?

A GM car without ABS? That's strange. For many years, GM did not install airbags in their cars, but did install ABS as standard, feeling that a tradeoff between these two systems favoured the brakes. (I don't know the criteria they used; it may have been largely for commercial reasons.) The 1993 Buick Regal Custom I used to drive was so equipped—four-wheel disc brakes with ABS, but no airbags.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Also, insurance companies tend to give discounts if your car includes safety features such as ABS and anti-theft systems, so there's that.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Jim, you obviously have never been driving on the interstate after heavy rains, going 70mph with the speed of traffic, and had some knucklehead pull in front of you from the right shoulder. That happened to me while driving 95-south towards VCU last year. ABS, Traction Control, and a quick reaction time is what saved me from a collision that day (there was a guy in the lane next to me as well). It wound up doing something to a rear rotor that made it vibrate after that, but $100 later I replaced it myself. ABS ftw.

DC/MD/Northern Va. traffic is god awful; I don't know what it's like up in MN.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Being a car nut (thanks to my dad) for as long as I can remember, I usually get asked this question by my older friends. A good first car is a very broad concept. It depends what your looking for, or what your limits are. However, there is some kind of standard for what makes a car a good car for a newer, younger, and less experienced driver.
One major thing is price. Some parents feel their kid will be a great driver, and get them a really nice car to reward them. There are kids at my school who got cars like Jaguars, Mercedes, BMW's, and other high-end, and very expensive cars for their first ride. This is not generally a good idea. Being less experienced on the road along with the younger generation's tendency to be somewhat reckless and try and be daredevils, and giving them a higher horsepower, faster, and very costly to get and maintain will significantly increase the chance of an accident. So definitely go for an inexpensive and relatively low-power car.
Another important factor is safety. A small and fast sports car is not the safest thing you could be in. Get into a crash with a large truck or something, and you, and your car, will be toast. A better idea would to be to go for either a mid-size sedan/coupe or a crossover/mid-size SUV. Make sure you check the safety ratings of a car. Companies like Ford, Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Subaru, and many others have plenty of inexpensive cars and are well known for high safety ratings.
Something to keep in mind is that the car does not necessarily have to be a new model. A used car from the 90s and 2000s can be a lot cheaper to get, and sometimes the better choice. Plus, would you want to take the chance of ruining a brand new 2011-2012 car when you could just get an older car that may be a little dirty or dented but still looks just fine?
There are other factors, but most of them are just common sense. An ideal first car would probably be something around these parameters:

-Price range: New:$15,000-25,000 / Used: Varied
-Horsepower: under 250
-Size/Type: Mid-size sedan/coupe/crossover/SUV/5-door hatchback
-High safety rating
-Seating for at least 4
-Good mileage for both city and highway / City: above 14 mpg / Highway: above 16-18 mpg (this will help save you money on gas)
-Reliability: do research to see how the car fares in terms of maintenance. How often do things break? How much does maintenance usually cost? Etc.

Here are some of my personal choices, as well as my dad's:

-Subaru Impreza (base model): My dad and I both like this car for a possible candidate as a first car for me. He owns a Subaru already, and loves the safety, reliability, capabilities in rough weather, and overall driving experience. Any year is fine, just don't go for the more powerful WRX or WRX STI, stick with the base model. The new one I think starts in the high teens
-Toyota Camry, Corrola: All are generally inexpensive and some of the most popular cars for the average person
-Nissan Altima, Maxima, Sentra: Similar to Toyota, but I prefer these over Toyota a little more
-Honda Civic and Accord: My second choice (Accord) as well as the Civic are very good cars. Both are well under the high 20's in pricing and are very reliable. Even the Pilot is a great first car, and actually when my mom gets a new truck, I will be getting her 2004 Pilot, and I like it a lot. The only downside is it is a little more expensive than the others, but is a worthwile investment
-Ford Focus, Fusion: Ah, good ol' USA. Well made and very good choices. Only thing is that they are a smidgen more expensive. Still a top pick for me

If I come up with anymore, I will add. I hope you find this useful.

Good Luck!

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Something that may not be obvious to you is that you really need to consider whether you need a car at all at college.

I don't know what college you are attending but take a look at the campus...ask about parking fees (they can be substantial). See if there is public transportation.

If you are worried about getting home... you will find numerous ride boards at every school.

I think you are going to find that most colleges are completely different than what you have experienced in high school They are mini-communities that were built around themselves and often don't require a vehicle to get to school or to other activities.

Most colleges were built before everyone owned a car... they have sprawled somewhat but everything is pretty much in walking distance.

Just something to think about...
A car in high school and a way to get around from a distant high school or in a standard urban setting is one thing.

College communities are different for the most part.

Have a great college career!!

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

True that!

I go to the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology. While there isn't a functioning ride board, I very rarely need to get a ride that I haven't been able to arrange with a friend. I live a mile from campus and take a bike path, afoot, to school every day. In my four prior years, I lived on campus or half a mile away. I still walked. No bike. No car. And the school is 10 minutes from end to end, on foot, if that.

Parking fees depend on the permit, but IIRC they run in the $20-$40 range or more (semester). Oh, but wait: That's if you can find parking in your lot area. (Yellow, the lowest and farthest, tends not to have that problem, but then you're at the far end of the football field from campus, and the dorms are at the other end of campus.)

I've thought about getting a bike or something like that. But, then I run into some other stuff. Typically, I can get a ride if I need to; if not, Walmart is about a mile, there's a grocery store closer than that, Kmart is about the same as Walmart, and most of the stuff I don't get a ride to is between me and school, or I meet a ride at the campus.

Most of the people who live on campus end up parking and only really driving on the weekends, from what I've observed; the commuters are the ones that really need their cars (and some of them have a pretty short drive).

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Get a 2003 Audi A3. safe efficient and fast!