Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I'm very familiar with stopping on the concrete apron in front of my garage, and the truck would not let me stop. It only acted up the one time....but that was enough to convince me that ABS might not be quite all it's cracked up to be. Putting software between me and what it is I'm trying to control, is not something I really desire.

This truck has full ABS. Several years later something acted up and the light comes on occasionally, so we just removed the fuse for the ABS unit and the trucks brakes work like normal brakes now.

I drive overpowered, underbraked cars, I have for decades, and none of them have ever not let me stop in my own driveway.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

See Billfred's post: "As for Kara's G6 story: many of the base G6 models (especially the 1SV "Value Leader" ones) lacked things like ABS, keyless entry, and XM radio." My car is definitely one of those. It does have good airbags, though (not that I've ever had to test them - my dad works for GM, and he agreed that they're good).

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Well, almost none :p

For most people, having ABS is an advantage.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I've driven an S80 Volvo with the ABS computer failing, and then removed, with no brake failure other than (obviously) not having ABS.The "brake failure detected, pull over immediately" warning message was a little disconcerting though :p

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Not all "ABS" tunings were created equal. Especially in the early days of ABS, they often had a tough time with low speed impending lock scenarios on slick surfaces. When Squirrel said the truck wouldn't let him stop, he wasn't kidding. I have driven several cars with early ABS that were great at high speeds (when the tone wheel is humming along and giving a great signal), but horrible at low speed when the signal starts to look more like a lock-up. ABS has gotten a ton better.

The same goes for any new technology. Airbags were actually pretty dangerous for small people when they first came out. That and IP rights kept them out of a lot of cars early on. Now with the sensors and multi-stage bags, pretty much every car has at least front bags, and many have curtains and all of these are much safer.

You could do similar good versus bad tuning stories for Traction Control, Stability control, engine and transmission calibrations... A good way to think about these technologies is your Car is similar to a competition robot. Early comp robots were mostly manual control with tethered switches turning the motors on and off. Often when a new piece of Tech is introduced, some teams do a good job integrating it, where as other do not. The same is often true with car tech.
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To bring this back to the OP of what car to buy:
I would not recommend buying "new tech" until it has the bugs worked out of it unless you have a lot of extra money and patience as both will likely be required. I am a big fan of 2nd year of production vehicles as they ahve fewer bugs than first year, and haven't had materials cheapened yet. I.E. If the car was new in 2001 MY, buy a 2002.
Almost every car has a forum (there is even a forum for dodge Stratus and avenger owners). Poke around the forum to know what problems to look for. As these are mass produced, vehicles often have a "known issue" that is either corrected or not. 4 cyl. subi head-gaskets, some vehicles have transmission issues, some have leaky AC systems. If you see it a lot in the forums, then it is a good thing to look out for.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

One important thing I'd ask is what do you want out of your first car?

Something that just gets you from point A to point B with limited fuss and $$?
I'd recommend almost any 4 cyl. car from the past ten years, my girlfriend went with an 03 dodge neon and it has filled this role for her perfectly.

Do you need something to do work?
This is why I went decided to buy a car(truck) instead of going car free. I needed to be able to pick up materials for my business so I bought an 82 Ford F100 longbed. It's horrible in the city because its about as wide as the lane(and wider than some) and fits exactly the length of a standard parking spot. Fuel economy is horrible, so I wouldn't recommend it for commuting, but there are smaller trucks with better fuel economy for a bit of a compromise on this front. However a truck has been quite a lot of help for robotics since I've driven much of the demo bot and materials around for the team during the summer.

Do you want something you can learn to work on/become mechanically competent(maybe you're a gear head). For a first car for this group I'd recommend an old air cooled VW, beetles are the cheapest and easiest to find, but there are some other body styles to go for too if you want. These will be manual transmission, very simple cars and will lack all computer controls and silly safety gizmos. They will however make you learn how cars work, and make you a better driver as you're forced to pay attention to the road.

A first car is a very personal thing and it will be hard for people to really point you in the right direction without knowing you, and to some extent your family. The "safety" of the car will make a huge impact in this area. It will have a lot to do with yours and your families views on handling risk. Personally I don't like to rely on passive systems that can get in the way of my control of the vehicle, for that reason I drive manual transmission cars, no airbags, no ABS(though I don't have much of a problem with this one, I just don't see it as particularly important), no traction control anti-roll etc. I've found that much of the worst driving of the teenage years will happen in the safest car you have access to, when it starts feeding that wonderful invincibility factor.

What is your philosophy on things? I know a lot of people don't think about this, but its something important to me. Much of American culture, and especially auto culture has gone to the idea of getting rid of something perfectly good every few years to trade up to the latest and greatest, I do exactly the opposite. I buy something that has been used, and proceed to maintain it until that's no longer viable. You'll want to take into account how long you plan to own your vehicle at purchase. If you want to keep it a long time maintenance and upgrade/repair costs are going to matter a lot more than if you plan to keep it for a couple years as you can probably afford to slack on maintenance and once the problems get bad enough just sell it.

I'm sure there's more, but I'm getting tired. My recommendation to you though is to think long and hard about what a car is to you, and if you even need one before buying. Trust me, I bought my first car when I was 12, I didn't actually need one until this year, almost a decade later, and if I didn't decide to start a business, I still wouldn't have bothered.

--Alex
79 Trans Am(restoration)
69 VW Beetle(restoration)
80 Honda Twinstar
82 Ford F100

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Wait, what? How is that even remotely generalizable? Surely that's an oversimplification that we shouldn't take to heart. As a counter-anecdote (that proves nothing, but hopefully underscores my point that this is not a good theory), I suspect that the worst driving I ever did was in that Buick Regal. That's the car I learned to drive with, but also the car with the fewest safety features—our other car, a Chrysler minivan, had ABS, 2 airbags, traction control and was seven years newer. Plus it outweighed the Buick by a thousand pounds. The Buick just had ABS, and suffered power steering and alternator failures during the time I drove it, not to mention a (temporarily) jammed transverse leaf spring and a dragging brake caliper. It even had the wacky American-style unpowered automatic seatbelts in the doors that made the structural integrity of the door a prerequisite for not getting ejected out the side. There's no way the Buick was the safer car.

This is amusing because, with regard to ABS and traction control, those are actually active systems that only marginally decrease your control under normal circumstances, and dramatically increase your control under extreme circumstances.

Manual transmission is even worse, safety-wise: it decreases your positional control (hands keep coming off of the steering wheel or sliding along its rim to turn it, and more chance of being in an inappropriate gear to avoid an obstacle), and only slightly increases your engine control and efficiency.

Airbags have no impact on your control, unless you plan to be running into things that would ordinary deploy them.

That's kind of the problem, though—cars don't work that way anymore. A Bug is a 60 year old design. Essentially no car from this century uses air cooling, or torsion bar suspension, or the spare tire as a pressure reservoir for the windshield washer system. Sure you can learn about the way cars used to be, and can even tinker with it to your heart's content, but if that's the goal, find another Trans-Am instead—because it might actually be fun and challenging to drive (once you drop a crate engine into it to replace the energy-crisis version).

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Jim,
you're just bragging about your classics!
Post some pics.:p

All I got are Toyotas/Hondas, 5 at the moment (4 garage queens).

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I have pretty much hated ABS through out its history, domestic and imported..... really hated ABS !!!!

But in 2007 I got a CrewMax 4 door Tundra just so I could do robotics in style. The ABS on that thing made me a true believer. It is awesome and has save my butt several times .... with ease. I'm in awe of it. I don't know who designed it but 'Kudos'.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Thanks Ike....

On topic....me in my truck a couple months after starting college (1979). Earlier that year my brother and I swapped a 396 and 4 speed into the truck. It was fun. I still have the truck, too.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I would have to say that a volvo 2001 s60 was my first around $2000, and other then small issues like the engine light is always on. All in all the car drives nicely and it is very durable, great for a first vehicle.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Thanks, guys.

I'm fairly sure I won't need a car in college, most of the one's I'm looking at are fairly small or the engineering department is compact, but, hey, it's work asking.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

You know, I go to a vocational automotive program out of district for the last half of the day. Yup, I drive 5 miles every wednesday and friday to go to robotics :) And during build season, thats every monday, wednesday, thursday, friday and saturday, So gas is always crucial for me. Being born in a speed junkie family, everyone has a fast car but at least i fill my tank every 2 weeks instead of every 3 days with my tiny v6 ;p

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

One of my friends (although he's a bit older than me), had a '36 Ford Woodie as his first car... obviously not in any shape that resembles this one. He now drives a '28 Ford A Pickup except when the salt comes out in the winter, at which point he drives his beater of a Cherokee which is in arguably worse shape.

The director of the Ford Museum drives a Model T to work, which must be absolutely traumatizing for him and everyone else on the road. They are great to see on the road so long as they are in a different lane. ;)

An A is definitely first big purchase once I start working (after a car that can drive on the highway :D)

On topic, not having a car at college is very annoying but definitely doable. You just have to get use to bumming rides, and you miss out on things you want to do off campus but can't convince people with cars they want to go to.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Ian I thought you're just going to fly planes everywhere?