What to get as a good first car
 

I'll be going to college in a few years, and may or may not need to get a car.

I've had my license a year now and use my mom's Honda Accord and my dad's Ford F-150, with the Accord in use most.

I thought I'd get an excessive head start on finding good car possibilities, so does anyone have any good suggestions? Note that I'd likely be buying used to save money, so unless the car is cheap new, try to stick to older models. I also despise SUV's, minivans, crossovers, and the like, too, due to personal taste.

This post can also be for anyone else who is unsure of what FIRST (haha) car to get.


So far I've found a few possibilities:

Honda Accord, Civic, Fit
VW Jetta
Mini Cooper

I don't really like American cars, apparently.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

First focus needs to be on safety. A new-enough car with at least anti-lock brakes and airbags, and larger rather than smaller. Check the IIHS and NHTSA safety ratings. Also, remember that in a collision, mass wins.

Second needs to be reliability. Stranded is a bummer, but it can be dangerous as well (first point)

Then check the classifieds or eBay for what kind of car you can get for the money you have. Keep $1000 aside (for a $5000 car) for repairs; nobody sells a perfectly fine car, regardless of the story.

If you're not a car expert, pay a mechanic or dealer $250-300 for a pre-purchase inspection. Not only will this prevent a serious error, you'll know what to spend the remaining money of your $1000 on. Safety things first (tires, brakes, steering system, suspension), reliability next.

ANY car with ANY rust should be crossed off your list, unless you expect to keep the car for only a year or 2. Or really have very little money. If the car has all the maintenance records, that means someone cared about it.

The last thing to consider is maintenance costs. You can buy a 1988 Mercedes 300E in good condition for $4k (both safe & reliable), but remember it still costs like the $40k car it was to maintain. Learn the basic jobs, like oil & filter, fluids, tire pressure & rotation, maybe even brakes, to save a lot here.

I've been a car engineer for 25 years. Do this and you'll be satisfied.

Oh, and remember: A car can be painted any color for under $500.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Thanks for the advice.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Volvo 544

1959 Chevy pickup

1993 Ford Crown Victoria

(these are examples of good first cars from personal experience, they may or may not be good for you)

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Also consider fuel mileage. More mass = a bigger force to get the same acceleration. Gas can really add up.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I'll assume you want a used car—new is just too expensive. Also, I'll assume this is mainly for commuting, and occasionally for moving in and out of wherever you're living while at school. Those needs aren't particularly special, so you can probably rely on Consumer Reports for ratings.

Accords and Civics are decent cars, but they do get stolen an awful lot (seriously). Is that a consideration? The Jetta and the Mini are probably going to be expensive to maintain.

You might want to consider something like an 8-year-old Protegé (or Protegé 5). A Fit is practical as well, and gets good mileage, but likely more expensive to maintain. If you can deal with ugly, there's always stuff based on the Corolla—they're cheap to buy, operate and maintain.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I am actually looking for a first car as well (so I have done a lot of research, it also helps when your dad is a total gearhead). If I have learned anything from my research it is that you should take your time when shopping for a used car, especially if it is no rush. The listings that you find in the classifieds will change quite often, so keep your eye out. You will see a car that you like eventually.
And by the way, I like the idea of the 95 Chevy pickup.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

My number one advice is know what you need. Sometimes a person will sell a perfectly fine car if they are "trading up". My car has no air conditioning and no powered locks or windows. These are things alot of people want in their car, but I'm ok without them. This allowed me to get a car that was otherwise great with low mileage for a fair price. Do you need a cd player? remote starter? powered windows? These are all questions to think about. My car came with a cd player, but it definitely wasn't on my list of needs. It was a bonus.

Jason

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Forget anything German if you're going for low cost of ownership. No BMW, VW, Audi, or Mini (owned by BMW) etc. Some people have great luck with them, many don't.

Crown Victoria's are good first cars (my first car, as it were). I would also consider a Focus.

You're going to pay a premium in the used market for anything with "Honda" stuck to it, but it will probably be a decent car.

Mazda has several good offerings, but I would look at the large used Mazda3 and Mazda6 market.

As don suggested, keep $1k on-hand for repairs. You're saving money in the initial purchase price by going used, but you will spend more money in maintenance and repairs. It's just how cars work. If you're want to go the self-reliance route I would set aside $300-$500 for tools, like a jack, jack-stands, socket set, spark plug tool, oil filter wrench, torque wrenches, etc.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Some college kids drive like the biggest nut jobs you'll ever see. Save your first 'nice' car purchase for after college so you're not so focused on someone damaging your nice car; waiting will also make it more satisfying.

DO NOT PURCHASE THE CAR IN THE COLLEGE TOWN. Sorry for yelling. If you buy it from a college kid, it probably won't last another 4 years without a major breakdown sometime (sorry for stereotyping and/or projecting, but I've been there...). College kids aren't known for having enough money to do preventative maintenance on cars. Don's advice is sound -- do the 'small stuff' yourself.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I tend to be a fan of new cars. For going off the college a Honda Civic or Toyota Yaris.

We planned our car buying in our family so that my daughter got a hand-me-down 1999 Accord when she was a HS senior in 2005/2006, drove it through college, still driving it at her new job. The next car she will have she will pay for herself...

That way I'm buying new and I REALLY know the car history....

Reliability, safety, low cost of operation and ownership is what a college student needs.

After school, feel free to blow up your wallet.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

You could always have the team build you a car. :) All jokes/things we really want to happen aside, I hear the yaris is good. I am also one of the many fans of new cars, even though I don't have a car yet. IMO, the car with the best technology that's useful to you would help the most.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Avoid Pontiac vehicles if possible, especially mid-90s to mid-00s. I and several of my acquaintances have had major (costly) electrical issues with these cars.
I'll throw in another vote for Ford Escort, Toyota Corolla (or any of its sister cars). Saturn makes a good automobile, but in my experience they fit a certain body type that I just don't have.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Good advise from Jason. Define the requirements FIRST. It's just like building a robot ;)

I have always been interested in cars, so having an unreliable college car was a great thing, I learned all kinds of neat things about how cars work (and what makes them not work). It helped that my part time jobs during college were car related--first at an auto salvage yard, then at a transmission shop.

I doubt this is how normal people look at buying a car for college, but hey, this is robotics, and we're not normal people.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

The Accords and Civics that get stolen are mid 90's models. More recent ones aren't anywhere near the most stolen list. Only 10% of stolen Accords are from 2000 or later.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Really? I drove a 2007 G6 for about a year and a half before I had to leave it at home to come up to college, and had no problems with it (and I drove it a lot). It was in New York before I got it. The only issue that I had electrical-wise was the battery spontaneously dying in early August...but I think that was because the lights may have been left on. The G6 was a great car: easy handling, CD player, powered locks and windows. I might buy it off my parents if I get a job within the next few years.

Just be warned, mine came with no ABS and no key fob. Don't just assume that ABS is standard on older cars, because apparently it's not.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I'm sure there's a good reason for ABS, but I don't know what that could be....

then again I've been driving old cars and trucks with manual drum brakes for a long time, and mostly I don't run into things, because I keep some room between me and the vehicle ahead. Although I did run into a garage door with an ABS equipped truck, the truck didn't believe that I wanted to stop, no matter how hard I pushed on the brake pedal, it knew I wanted the wheels to keep turning.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Let's do the math.
Assumptions: 10,000 miles a year, $4 a gallon for gas
18 MPG = 555 g = $2222
28 MPG = 357 g = $1428
So the difference between a quite bad car and a better-than-average car is about $800 a year. Seems like a lot, but it's really not.
Paying attention, reasonable following distances and driver skill nearly obviate the need for ABS. Ditto other driving assistance systems.

But there is no accounting for some cases: Deer (plural) at night out of nowhere, no ABS and I hit one, but with ABS I steer right between two and avoid contact. True story. I have the brown pants to prove it.

The bottom line is, a car with ABS can be stopped almost as short as the very best drivers on the planet, but by any idiot who can stomp on the brakes. This was, by the way, the first step to the self-driving car.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Ohio weather?

By the way, I drove Pontiac Grand Prix's with 3.8L V6 engines from from 1997-2006 (and a V8 GXP from 2006-2008). They were very reliable, comfortable, and good in the snow. Not sure how anything that vintage would function nowadays, but they were great when I had them.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Or Michigan weather, or areas with lots of hills+snow+ice. There's a reason I didn't ask to bring it with me up to the UP.

No ABS isn't horrible, but I definitely liked having it in my mom's car during the few times I had to take it to work during the winter due there being way too much snow. It takes getting used to, and I it guess falls under "personal preference."

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Similar math could be done to show the difference in safety of an average car to a small truck.(I'm approximating the two vehicles based on your mpg ratings). Yes, there can be a difference in safety just like there is a difference in cost. There is always a level of danger on the roads. It is up to the individual to decide what the trade-off should be. Unless your going to buy a really big vehicle, your prob not going to be a whole lot safer then the standard to large car size. Also, if you buy too big of a vehicle and are not a safe driver...be aware that the added safety your buying is lowering the safety to those around you. Just keep others in mind when determining "safe".

Jason

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

And it will never be anywhere near as good looking as original paint. I would never repaint a car that did not have serious issues with its original paint.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Full disclosure: I work for a Buick-GMC-Cadillac dealership that had a Pontiac franchise until that division's closure, and own a 2009 Pontiac Vibe myself.

While I can't comment on the older Pontiacs (not enough experience), the final lineup from Pontiac should actually be a pretty good value at this point. Pontiac (as well as the also-departed Saturn) shared platforms across the entire GM lineup*--the Pontiac G6 and Saturn Aura, for example, share a number of components with the Chevrolet Malibu--which makes parts and service generally pretty easy to acquire. More useful to you: those two brands seem to have suffered significantly more depreciation compared to other GM models still in production. If you're going to drive it a long time, it probably won't matter to you.

*There are exceptions: the Saturn Astra was only imported for one year, the Pontiac Vibe shares its underpinnings with the Toyota Matrix (and the 2009-2010 models are decidedly not cheap on parts), the Pontiac GTO was only imported in small numbers, and the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky both went out of production together. I doubt Solstice, Sky, or GTO will be on your radar, though.

As for Kara's G6 story: many of the base G6 models (especially the 1SV "Value Leader" ones) lacked things like ABS, keyless entry, and XM radio. If you have a question on the equipment a car comes with, you can often find out by calling a local dealer; for example, GM dealers can pull up build information on just about anything made in the past decade or so online.

As with any purchase with this many zeros on the check, do your homework! I would also encourage you to take any potential purchase to a trusted mechanic for a proper inspection, and getting a vehicle history report certainly never hurts. You'll also want to see the title, to ensure there are no liens on the vehicle from banks. (If you buy the car and there's a lien on it, you're on the hook for paying off the loan!)

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Barring a component failure, in all likelihood it wouldn't have helped. The ABS detects the point at which your wheels will skid (where your braking force is limited by the friction of tires on road, instead of the friction of brakes on discs), and disengages the brakes momentarily to avoid that. In other words, it's finding the optimum conditions for maximum braking, and trying to keep the vehicle there. (This is the same principle as a PID loop on a FIRST robot's drivetrain, for those who are familiar with that technology.)

Incidentally, some trucks only have ABS on the rear wheels (individually or together). I suspect this layout was intended to avoid the lightly-loaded rear end of the truck from skidding, and destabilizing the vehicle. You may not have even had ABS on the brakes that were doing the most work (the front ones).

There's a common fallacy that ABS is less effective than ordinary manual braking. Implicit in that assumption is that a driver can maintain the car at the braking threshold continuously, without briefly over- or undershooting that point like ABS will do. Of course, it's very unlikely that a randomly selected driver will be able to do that at all. And even a well-trained driver will be unable to do it with anything approaching the repeatability and consistency of an ordinary ABS system, especially under changing dynamic conditions.

The other nice thing about ABS is that by preventing skidding, the steering still works.

And even if the technical rationale is unimpressive, there's always the appeal to authority: why would the engineers who design planes and F1 cars implement ABS if it wasn't useful?

A GM car without ABS? That's strange. For many years, GM did not install airbags in their cars, but did install ABS as standard, feeling that a tradeoff between these two systems favoured the brakes. (I don't know the criteria they used; it may have been largely for commercial reasons.) The 1993 Buick Regal Custom I used to drive was so equipped—four-wheel disc brakes with ABS, but no airbags.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Also, insurance companies tend to give discounts if your car includes safety features such as ABS and anti-theft systems, so there's that.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Jim, you obviously have never been driving on the interstate after heavy rains, going 70mph with the speed of traffic, and had some knucklehead pull in front of you from the right shoulder. That happened to me while driving 95-south towards VCU last year. ABS, Traction Control, and a quick reaction time is what saved me from a collision that day (there was a guy in the lane next to me as well). It wound up doing something to a rear rotor that made it vibrate after that, but $100 later I replaced it myself. ABS ftw.

DC/MD/Northern Va. traffic is god awful; I don't know what it's like up in MN.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Being a car nut (thanks to my dad) for as long as I can remember, I usually get asked this question by my older friends. A good first car is a very broad concept. It depends what your looking for, or what your limits are. However, there is some kind of standard for what makes a car a good car for a newer, younger, and less experienced driver.
One major thing is price. Some parents feel their kid will be a great driver, and get them a really nice car to reward them. There are kids at my school who got cars like Jaguars, Mercedes, BMW's, and other high-end, and very expensive cars for their first ride. This is not generally a good idea. Being less experienced on the road along with the younger generation's tendency to be somewhat reckless and try and be daredevils, and giving them a higher horsepower, faster, and very costly to get and maintain will significantly increase the chance of an accident. So definitely go for an inexpensive and relatively low-power car.
Another important factor is safety. A small and fast sports car is not the safest thing you could be in. Get into a crash with a large truck or something, and you, and your car, will be toast. A better idea would to be to go for either a mid-size sedan/coupe or a crossover/mid-size SUV. Make sure you check the safety ratings of a car. Companies like Ford, Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Subaru, and many others have plenty of inexpensive cars and are well known for high safety ratings.
Something to keep in mind is that the car does not necessarily have to be a new model. A used car from the 90s and 2000s can be a lot cheaper to get, and sometimes the better choice. Plus, would you want to take the chance of ruining a brand new 2011-2012 car when you could just get an older car that may be a little dirty or dented but still looks just fine?
There are other factors, but most of them are just common sense. An ideal first car would probably be something around these parameters:

-Price range: New:$15,000-25,000 / Used: Varied
-Horsepower: under 250
-Size/Type: Mid-size sedan/coupe/crossover/SUV/5-door hatchback
-High safety rating
-Seating for at least 4
-Good mileage for both city and highway / City: above 14 mpg / Highway: above 16-18 mpg (this will help save you money on gas)
-Reliability: do research to see how the car fares in terms of maintenance. How often do things break? How much does maintenance usually cost? Etc.

Here are some of my personal choices, as well as my dad's:

-Subaru Impreza (base model): My dad and I both like this car for a possible candidate as a first car for me. He owns a Subaru already, and loves the safety, reliability, capabilities in rough weather, and overall driving experience. Any year is fine, just don't go for the more powerful WRX or WRX STI, stick with the base model. The new one I think starts in the high teens
-Toyota Camry, Corrola: All are generally inexpensive and some of the most popular cars for the average person
-Nissan Altima, Maxima, Sentra: Similar to Toyota, but I prefer these over Toyota a little more
-Honda Civic and Accord: My second choice (Accord) as well as the Civic are very good cars. Both are well under the high 20's in pricing and are very reliable. Even the Pilot is a great first car, and actually when my mom gets a new truck, I will be getting her 2004 Pilot, and I like it a lot. The only downside is it is a little more expensive than the others, but is a worthwile investment
-Ford Focus, Fusion: Ah, good ol' USA. Well made and very good choices. Only thing is that they are a smidgen more expensive. Still a top pick for me

If I come up with anymore, I will add. I hope you find this useful.

Good Luck!

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Something that may not be obvious to you is that you really need to consider whether you need a car at all at college.

I don't know what college you are attending but take a look at the campus...ask about parking fees (they can be substantial). See if there is public transportation.

If you are worried about getting home... you will find numerous ride boards at every school.

I think you are going to find that most colleges are completely different than what you have experienced in high school They are mini-communities that were built around themselves and often don't require a vehicle to get to school or to other activities.

Most colleges were built before everyone owned a car... they have sprawled somewhat but everything is pretty much in walking distance.

Just something to think about...
A car in high school and a way to get around from a distant high school or in a standard urban setting is one thing.

College communities are different for the most part.

Have a great college career!!

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

True that!

I go to the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology. While there isn't a functioning ride board, I very rarely need to get a ride that I haven't been able to arrange with a friend. I live a mile from campus and take a bike path, afoot, to school every day. In my four prior years, I lived on campus or half a mile away. I still walked. No bike. No car. And the school is 10 minutes from end to end, on foot, if that.

Parking fees depend on the permit, but IIRC they run in the $20-$40 range or more (semester). Oh, but wait: That's if you can find parking in your lot area. (Yellow, the lowest and farthest, tends not to have that problem, but then you're at the far end of the football field from campus, and the dorms are at the other end of campus.)

I've thought about getting a bike or something like that. But, then I run into some other stuff. Typically, I can get a ride if I need to; if not, Walmart is about a mile, there's a grocery store closer than that, Kmart is about the same as Walmart, and most of the stuff I don't get a ride to is between me and school, or I meet a ride at the campus.

Most of the people who live on campus end up parking and only really driving on the weekends, from what I've observed; the commuters are the ones that really need their cars (and some of them have a pretty short drive).

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Get a 2003 Audi A3. safe efficient and fast!

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I'm very familiar with stopping on the concrete apron in front of my garage, and the truck would not let me stop. It only acted up the one time....but that was enough to convince me that ABS might not be quite all it's cracked up to be. Putting software between me and what it is I'm trying to control, is not something I really desire.

This truck has full ABS. Several years later something acted up and the light comes on occasionally, so we just removed the fuse for the ABS unit and the trucks brakes work like normal brakes now.

I drive overpowered, underbraked cars, I have for decades, and none of them have ever not let me stop in my own driveway.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

See Billfred's post: "As for Kara's G6 story: many of the base G6 models (especially the 1SV "Value Leader" ones) lacked things like ABS, keyless entry, and XM radio." My car is definitely one of those. It does have good airbags, though (not that I've ever had to test them - my dad works for GM, and he agreed that they're good).

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Well, almost none :p

For most people, having ABS is an advantage.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I've driven an S80 Volvo with the ABS computer failing, and then removed, with no brake failure other than (obviously) not having ABS.The "brake failure detected, pull over immediately" warning message was a little disconcerting though :p

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Not all "ABS" tunings were created equal. Especially in the early days of ABS, they often had a tough time with low speed impending lock scenarios on slick surfaces. When Squirrel said the truck wouldn't let him stop, he wasn't kidding. I have driven several cars with early ABS that were great at high speeds (when the tone wheel is humming along and giving a great signal), but horrible at low speed when the signal starts to look more like a lock-up. ABS has gotten a ton better.

The same goes for any new technology. Airbags were actually pretty dangerous for small people when they first came out. That and IP rights kept them out of a lot of cars early on. Now with the sensors and multi-stage bags, pretty much every car has at least front bags, and many have curtains and all of these are much safer.

You could do similar good versus bad tuning stories for Traction Control, Stability control, engine and transmission calibrations... A good way to think about these technologies is your Car is similar to a competition robot. Early comp robots were mostly manual control with tethered switches turning the motors on and off. Often when a new piece of Tech is introduced, some teams do a good job integrating it, where as other do not. The same is often true with car tech.
****************************************
To bring this back to the OP of what car to buy:
I would not recommend buying "new tech" until it has the bugs worked out of it unless you have a lot of extra money and patience as both will likely be required. I am a big fan of 2nd year of production vehicles as they ahve fewer bugs than first year, and haven't had materials cheapened yet. I.E. If the car was new in 2001 MY, buy a 2002.
Almost every car has a forum (there is even a forum for dodge Stratus and avenger owners). Poke around the forum to know what problems to look for. As these are mass produced, vehicles often have a "known issue" that is either corrected or not. 4 cyl. subi head-gaskets, some vehicles have transmission issues, some have leaky AC systems. If you see it a lot in the forums, then it is a good thing to look out for.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

One important thing I'd ask is what do you want out of your first car?

Something that just gets you from point A to point B with limited fuss and $$?
I'd recommend almost any 4 cyl. car from the past ten years, my girlfriend went with an 03 dodge neon and it has filled this role for her perfectly.

Do you need something to do work?
This is why I went decided to buy a car(truck) instead of going car free. I needed to be able to pick up materials for my business so I bought an 82 Ford F100 longbed. It's horrible in the city because its about as wide as the lane(and wider than some) and fits exactly the length of a standard parking spot. Fuel economy is horrible, so I wouldn't recommend it for commuting, but there are smaller trucks with better fuel economy for a bit of a compromise on this front. However a truck has been quite a lot of help for robotics since I've driven much of the demo bot and materials around for the team during the summer.

Do you want something you can learn to work on/become mechanically competent(maybe you're a gear head). For a first car for this group I'd recommend an old air cooled VW, beetles are the cheapest and easiest to find, but there are some other body styles to go for too if you want. These will be manual transmission, very simple cars and will lack all computer controls and silly safety gizmos. They will however make you learn how cars work, and make you a better driver as you're forced to pay attention to the road.

A first car is a very personal thing and it will be hard for people to really point you in the right direction without knowing you, and to some extent your family. The "safety" of the car will make a huge impact in this area. It will have a lot to do with yours and your families views on handling risk. Personally I don't like to rely on passive systems that can get in the way of my control of the vehicle, for that reason I drive manual transmission cars, no airbags, no ABS(though I don't have much of a problem with this one, I just don't see it as particularly important), no traction control anti-roll etc. I've found that much of the worst driving of the teenage years will happen in the safest car you have access to, when it starts feeding that wonderful invincibility factor.

What is your philosophy on things? I know a lot of people don't think about this, but its something important to me. Much of American culture, and especially auto culture has gone to the idea of getting rid of something perfectly good every few years to trade up to the latest and greatest, I do exactly the opposite. I buy something that has been used, and proceed to maintain it until that's no longer viable. You'll want to take into account how long you plan to own your vehicle at purchase. If you want to keep it a long time maintenance and upgrade/repair costs are going to matter a lot more than if you plan to keep it for a couple years as you can probably afford to slack on maintenance and once the problems get bad enough just sell it.

I'm sure there's more, but I'm getting tired. My recommendation to you though is to think long and hard about what a car is to you, and if you even need one before buying. Trust me, I bought my first car when I was 12, I didn't actually need one until this year, almost a decade later, and if I didn't decide to start a business, I still wouldn't have bothered.

--Alex
79 Trans Am(restoration)
69 VW Beetle(restoration)
80 Honda Twinstar
82 Ford F100

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Wait, what? How is that even remotely generalizable? Surely that's an oversimplification that we shouldn't take to heart. As a counter-anecdote (that proves nothing, but hopefully underscores my point that this is not a good theory), I suspect that the worst driving I ever did was in that Buick Regal. That's the car I learned to drive with, but also the car with the fewest safety features—our other car, a Chrysler minivan, had ABS, 2 airbags, traction control and was seven years newer. Plus it outweighed the Buick by a thousand pounds. The Buick just had ABS, and suffered power steering and alternator failures during the time I drove it, not to mention a (temporarily) jammed transverse leaf spring and a dragging brake caliper. It even had the wacky American-style unpowered automatic seatbelts in the doors that made the structural integrity of the door a prerequisite for not getting ejected out the side. There's no way the Buick was the safer car.

This is amusing because, with regard to ABS and traction control, those are actually active systems that only marginally decrease your control under normal circumstances, and dramatically increase your control under extreme circumstances.

Manual transmission is even worse, safety-wise: it decreases your positional control (hands keep coming off of the steering wheel or sliding along its rim to turn it, and more chance of being in an inappropriate gear to avoid an obstacle), and only slightly increases your engine control and efficiency.

Airbags have no impact on your control, unless you plan to be running into things that would ordinary deploy them.

That's kind of the problem, though—cars don't work that way anymore. A Bug is a 60 year old design. Essentially no car from this century uses air cooling, or torsion bar suspension, or the spare tire as a pressure reservoir for the windshield washer system. Sure you can learn about the way cars used to be, and can even tinker with it to your heart's content, but if that's the goal, find another Trans-Am instead—because it might actually be fun and challenging to drive (once you drop a crate engine into it to replace the energy-crisis version).

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Jim,
you're just bragging about your classics!
Post some pics.:p

All I got are Toyotas/Hondas, 5 at the moment (4 garage queens).

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I have pretty much hated ABS through out its history, domestic and imported..... really hated ABS !!!!

But in 2007 I got a CrewMax 4 door Tundra just so I could do robotics in style. The ABS on that thing made me a true believer. It is awesome and has save my butt several times .... with ease. I'm in awe of it. I don't know who designed it but 'Kudos'.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Thanks Ike....

On topic....me in my truck a couple months after starting college (1979). Earlier that year my brother and I swapped a 396 and 4 speed into the truck. It was fun. I still have the truck, too.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

I would have to say that a volvo 2001 s60 was my first around $2000, and other then small issues like the engine light is always on. All in all the car drives nicely and it is very durable, great for a first vehicle.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Thanks, guys.

I'm fairly sure I won't need a car in college, most of the one's I'm looking at are fairly small or the engineering department is compact, but, hey, it's work asking.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

You know, I go to a vocational automotive program out of district for the last half of the day. Yup, I drive 5 miles every wednesday and friday to go to robotics :) And during build season, thats every monday, wednesday, thursday, friday and saturday, So gas is always crucial for me. Being born in a speed junkie family, everyone has a fast car but at least i fill my tank every 2 weeks instead of every 3 days with my tiny v6 ;p

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

One of my friends (although he's a bit older than me), had a '36 Ford Woodie as his first car... obviously not in any shape that resembles this one. He now drives a '28 Ford A Pickup except when the salt comes out in the winter, at which point he drives his beater of a Cherokee which is in arguably worse shape.

The director of the Ford Museum drives a Model T to work, which must be absolutely traumatizing for him and everyone else on the road. They are great to see on the road so long as they are in a different lane. ;)

An A is definitely first big purchase once I start working (after a car that can drive on the highway :D)

On topic, not having a car at college is very annoying but definitely doable. You just have to get use to bumming rides, and you miss out on things you want to do off campus but can't convince people with cars they want to go to.

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Ian I thought you're just going to fly planes everywhere?

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

Working for Boeing in Everett is one of the few places this is actually conceivable as there is an obviously an airport on site. All you'd need is to live close to another airport, or have a grass strip in your backyard (obviously the best option). Unfortunately, the weather in Seattle isn't great, and my kind of airplane isn't exactly well equipped for instrument conditions. (I like old planes, see my profile picture) Flying from Paine Field to Everett to Boeing Field in Seattle if you had a meeting there would be a definite possibility I think, especially since Puget Sound traffic was in my experiences this summer pretty universally awful.

And if you are inquiring about my airplanes, I want a Piper Cub, then a Stearman, then hopefully one day a T-6. DC-3 would be a dream... but you need a *very* deep pocket book to fly one of those for fun.

There is a long list of homebuilts and replicas too, most notably a Pietenpol Air Camper, and I've always though the world needs another Sopwith Triplane, since it inspired the Red Baron's Fokker Dr.I and only a couple replicas have been built. My Model A friend from above likes to try and talk me into building an early Caudron biplane. He's also got a Klemm Kl26a (link is for a Kl25) in the works, which will be the only one of its kind when it is finally finished. He went through a pretty epic struggle to get the original drawings from the FAA and he got me into airplanes, so I think it would be a nice tribute to have one. The flying characteristics are pretty legendary too, supposedly the stall speed is around 20 knots (25 mph). The Klemm was also the first airplane to fly around the world (it was obviously not non-stop, and the guy took ships across the oceans).

/backontopic

Re: What to get as a good first car
 

One thing I didn't see mentioned was to get insurance quotes after you narrow the field down to a few. Insurance costs can vary a lot between different models for not always obvious reasons and have a big impact on total cost of ownership.

Wetzel